Alternatives

[Afghanfootball]

I don't agree with the division of Afghanistan, plus it will create lots of other (if not more) problems.


1. There is heavy inter-mixing in Afghanistan.

Some of the Pashtuns are heavily Persianized as well e.g. Mahmudzais and feel though they are ancestrally, genetically, emotionally Pashtun that Dari is "their" language as much as Pashto is. For example the Scotts may speak English but they regard English as their language as much as the English do themselves, due to their history and usage of it.

The Mexicans, south Americans know they are mainly native Amerindian but also regard Spanish as "their" language.

Usage of a language doesn't necessarily mean you reject your ethnicity or prefer the ethnic group from where the language came over your own one.

In other words a "pure Pashtun state" with Pashto as the sole language may not work in Afghanistan.



2. There would be additional borders for people and transport to cross from the Arabian gulf to resource rich Central Asia.

China wants a peaceful stable Asia with optimal trade and increased connectivity not less.



3. Within Pashtuns themselves there are divisions e.g. Ghilzais v Durranis etc. Then there is the secularist v conservative division.

Afghans in general are proud of the nation of Afghanistan and do not want to see it break.

A stable dynamic state will take time.

Already one Afghan government has transferred power peacefully via elections to another Afghan government, this is something Pakistan only achieved for the first time in its history around 2 years ago, whereas Afghanistan has experienced war for decades.



4. Though break up of the country is not wise in my opinion (it is for Afghans to decide and no Afghan I know would want that) e.g. I do think a federation is a good idea, however a federation on administrative or geographical lines not ethnic ones.

This however is not possible because at the moment Afghanistan is in some ways a band of warlords with their regions of influence agreeing to work together (Abdullah, Dostum etc).



Progress will take time, in the interim period increased education and urbanization will lead to an increase in pan-Afghan consciousness and identity.

Pretty much fully agree with you (except on the federation part could you elaborate). Just about no Afghan wants to the country to split whether they are Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, Turkmen, Nuristani, Balochi, or Aimaq the vast majority of Afghans are proud Afghans its only dumbasses on the Internet that get brainwashed by Iranis and PorkI that want this.

[Afghanfootball]

North is havely mixed, seperating them will not help at all. Just look at Sudan, you heard for decades that seperate states will bring peace. North Suadan is peacefull meanwhile the mixed south is degrading to another civil war. This will happen to Afghanistan north, they think that all problems are due to Pashtuns and they think that Hazara, Uzback and Tajiks are all going to love and live peacefully with each other, well thats a nice dream. They will just fight among themself for power.

Your forgetting there is no shortage of Pashtuns in the north and especially in the west.

[Afghanfootball]

The most realistic Afghan ethnicity map I have seen.

[Afghanfootball]

As you can see Pashtuns make up the majority in West, South, and East Afghanistan. There are still very big populations in the north and central Afghanistan.

[Khostai]

Your forgetting there is no shortage of Pashtuns in the north and especially in the west.

I am not forgeting, but this seperation for me means that they are going to oust Pashtuns from the North. And if they let those Pashtuns theire it would be even a bigger mess, becuase they are not going to hand over all the land that they are currently owning.

[Afghanfootball]

I am not forgeting, but this seperation for me means that they are going to oust Pashtuns from the North. And if they let those Pashtuns theire it would be even a bigger mess, becuase they are not going to hand over all the land that they are currently owning.

Doubt they'd be able to deport Pashtuns. Anyways this splitime would never happen.

[Khostai]

Doubt they'd be able to deport Pashtuns. Anyways this splitime would never happen.

Yes I think so too. But if you going to split regions among ethnic lines some deportations will occure, otherwise the whole seperation concept is quite useless, becuase for some regions it would not make any diffrence...

[Al-Afghani]

By that logic you are also a Tajik. The proper Tajiks call you Afghan-e-Ghul even though you are also a Farsiwan like them.

@topic One argument is that these are conquered territories by Ahmad Shah Abdali and should be kept under Afghanistan at all cost. To justify the hold, Afghan nationalists have even made the claims that Northren and central Afghanistan is historical homeland of Pashtuns and that large number of Tajiks and Uzbeks are relatively recent emmigrants from central asia , and that Hazaras can go to Mongolia if they dare to demand independence. Its not a bad approach, Pakistan is also holding big chunk of non-indic territory, although with better excuses and justification, Papa Angraiz facilitated them in it.

If you read too much from internet and your feets are not on the ground then chances are you are misreading the situation. For example , many of you Afghans wrongly assumed that Lar Pashtuns want Independence from Pakistan because of the posts and activity of few dozens nationalist Pashtuns . So have some patience and nerves, situation may not be that bad in Afghanistan.

The second argument is partition and be done with it, no more inter-ethnic bickering and hostilities. But it would be just easy escape with no solution for most of the issues. The better option is co-existence, some sort of confederation, in which all ethnic groups of Afghanistan have autonomous regions , only defence, foreign policy and communication under federal.

There has never been a precedent for peaceful coexistence of the various ethnic groups in Afghanistan. This is a pipe dream. Blame it on the Afghan leaders of the past who had zero foresight.

Confederation would mean a Tajik in control of several large cities, unacceptable to Pakistan, who fears an Indian presence, and Pashtuns on both sides of the border. Remember what happened when Massoud took over Kabul.

We are bound to repeat many more rounds of civil war, that it will become a routine practice. But Afghan blood is cheap anyway.

[Kushan Prince]

What's this talk about Partition i am hearing? it won't happen EVER. Even the most anti-Pashtun hating Tajik would not want that to happen nor an Uzbek from the north as it well cause a lot of problems. I know a few Tajiks and they are proud Afghans, only some Farsiwan buffoons on the net and on this site deny being Afghan since these people live in the west and ignore the ground reality of what is happening inside Afghanistan.

[Afghanfootball]

What's this talk about Partition i am hearing? it won't happen EVER. Even the most anti-Pashtun hating Tajik would not want that to happen nor an Uzbek from the north as it well cause a lot of problems. I know a few Tajiks and they are proud Afghans, only some Farsiwan buffoons on the net and on this site deny being Afghan since these people live in the west and ignore the ground reality of what is happening inside Afghanistan.

Yeah those Tajiks online that don't count themselves as Afghan make up probably 1% of the total Afghan Tajik population. The problem is ther getting brainwashed by Irani online into thinking they arent Afghan. Just look at the comments of any Valy music video. Hopefully once Afghanistan gets stable (soon Insha'Allah) we will have people like Ustad Abdul Hai Habibi who will educate Afghans on who they are.

[Khostai]

Yeah those Tajiks online that don't count themselves as Afghan make up probably 1% of the total Afghan Tajik population. The problem is ther getting brainwashed by Irani online into thinking they arent Afghan. Just look at the comments of any Valy music video. Hopefully once Afghanistan gets stable (soon Insha'Allah) we will have people like Ustad Abdul Hai Habibi who will educate Afghans on who they are.

If they are lesser than 1% why is there such a big resistance against the electronic taskera where the Afghan is mentioned. I hear on tolo news that there are people want Afghan must be mentioned but other thnic groups are againts that.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Pretty much fully agree with you (except on the federation part could you elaborate). Just about no Afghan wants to the country to split whether they are Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, Turkmen, Nuristani, Balochi, or Aimaq the vast majority of Afghans are proud Afghans its only dumbasses on the Internet that get brainwashed by Iranis and PorkI that want this.

First of all this is an issue for Afghans to decide and not outsiders (like me) to decide.

Though we can't decide, we can definitely give our personal opinions.


1. I would be against some sort of Yugoslavia or USSR style federation where the constituent parts are based on ethnicity/language.

Canada (with the exception of Quebec) is an example of a federation not based on ethnic provinces but geographical/administrative differences.




2. The primary purpose of this federation would be for local regions to micro-manage their economic development better.

So for example if there is a not-so-efficient government in Kabul, local region X would not have its growth retarded by poor governance in Kabul but able to flourish.


3. Here are some powers however which I believe should stay with the national government, or policy-formulation or laws of these areas (I can explain later what I mean by that).

a: Foreign affairs (though local regions can liaise with foreign governments on certain developmental projects as is standard through out many countries).

b: Defence

c: Currency

d: Police force, there should only be one police force in Afghanistan as different regions having their own police forces can either be de facto regional armies or serve as the nuclei for future regional armies as per Yugoslavia.

e: Education

This is to do with the issue of raising children to feel like members of a unified Afghanistan, rather than primarily part of an ethnic nation residing in the borders of the current Afghanistan state.

f: Infrastructure

So there is a harmonious connectivity within Afghanistan and the wider central Asia, south-west Asia, Arabian gulf region.

g: Supreme court (or Afghan equivalent) can cancel certain regional laws or policies if found to be against certain constitutional rules, human rights, integrity of the nation etc.


So what I am proposing is quite a centralized form of government anyway, the main thrust of my suggestion is a suggestion that Afghans examine a suitable federal strucure, (not that they adopt it). I am merely saying maybe they should assess some forms of decentralization).


However this may all be secondary, the first two duties of the Afghan government are to provide peace and then education.

Some would even argue that education comes first, because a new generation of better educated Afghans, millions of them, would not be willing to accept backwards Taliban rule.

Look at Pakhtun areas of Pakistan, the Taliban only ever temporarily ruled FATA and never the settled areas of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (with some exceptions e.g. Swat).

[Zahed]

Ehh NO! This is Pashtun lands only. Those who don't want to follow Pashtun laws in the future can immigrate to Europe. I hear there is peace, nice jobs, good houses, free education and girls.

They immigrated to Pashtunistan we Pashtuns did not immigrate to Arabia-Mongolia etc and raped their women.

What are you babbling about? You come off as a basement-dwelling virgin who desperately needs to get laid with your vapid chauvinist rhetoric. Uzbeks and Tajiks are very much indigenous to Afghanistan and are not going anywhere. They are fierce warriors and I doubt you have the ghayrat to do anything to them you pathetic brown Nazi faggot.

[Loy Afghanistan]

What are you babbling about? You come off as a basement-dwelling virgin who desperately needs to get laid with your vapid chauvinist rhetoric. Uzbeks and Tajiks are very much indigenous to Afghanistan and are not going anywhere. They are fierce warriors and I doubt you have the ghayrat to do anything to them you pathetic brown Nazi faggot.

AHAHHAHAHAAHAHAH! We will see in the future

Many of those are half bloods so clam your tits and good luck being superman behind computer.

[Talal]

Interesting discussion but I have to disagree a divided Afghanistan would still be at war with itself. I think for Afghanistan to be at peace it has to be independent not divided. Afghanistan's misfortunes started when they sought help from foreign players to gain leverage over each other and that has just gotten worse over these years.

I do believe when the US wraps up their mission, the Afghans for the first time in decades might have a small window to overcome their hatred for each other and come together as a nation. If they don't I believe the nation is headed for a bloodbath which will be much worse than what Afghanistan has seen up until now.

I think the Pakistani perspective is that Afghan government should make peace with Taliban and I am not sure what other options Afghanistan has ? Taliban are united for now, if they start splintering believe me it will be a nightmare unlike any other.

I think this a good thread, there should be discussion on the way forward for Afghanistan.