introducing Gulbadin junior

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I am not against spiritual Islam but I am against Islamism which is Islam+Arab culture, politics, society, economy , jihad, Sharia etc.

Pashtun nationalism should be our politics with democracy, state controlled capitalism our economy, reformed Pashtunwali our culture and society and Islam our religion. That is my agenda, my motive and my mission.

This statement and argument is Incoherent and self-contradictory, Islamism is a manufactured term which characterizes attributes which belong to Islam in general. As Jihad, politics , culture, economy, sharia are all addressed by Islam. You even admitted it yourself in another thread that Islam was contrary to the Arabic culture, thus you yourself reject your statement.

What you term "The spirit of Islam" is what forms & navigates Islamic application to society and politics. Because "Spirit" implies idea which is a Intellectual Hypothesis. The basic hypothesis of Islam is that everything must be for the purpose of complying to the Mandates of the Divine according to Islam, thereby politics and society would fall under its jurisdiction.

So how can you say you're against Islamism, when what you describe is identical to Islam? Furthermore, based on your statements elsewhere on the forum; You oppose Islamic Moral rules, such as Obligatory Fasting, Regulations on Sexual Behavior within the bounds of married heterosexual couples. Things not directly political. All of which suggests that you're against Islam itself, not just Islam in politics.

So either you're...

1) lying to yourself and don't know what "Islam" or "Islamism" mean
2)) Fully aware that "Islamism" actually refers to Islam, but use the word "Islamism" as a convenient diversion to feign legitimacy in the Muslim social conscious, so that Muslims won't discredit you as an apostate, and thus completely ignore you.

So I ask you again ......why don't you just admit you're against Islam itself and you want to suppress it? Others in the Anti-Islam movement are bold and overt with their motives.

Even Other Secularists know there is no difference between Islam and Islamism. And they're openly against Islam. Why do you feel the need to pretend?

[Badlun]

And how far are you with your agenda? Did you made some kind of movement or at least started a small club?

Good questions. I have completed My studies and now a days on a good job in UN.Have a small circle of friends who share my ideas.Once get good amount of money will start an organization in the real world. So far active in virtual world of PF.

[Badlun]

This statement and argument is Incoherent and self-contradictory, Islamism is a manufactured term which characterizes attributes which belong to Islam in general. As Jihad, politics , culture, economy, sharia are all addressed by Islam. You even admitted it yourself in another thread that Islam was contrary to the Arabic culture, thus you yourself reject your statement.

What you term "The spirit of Islam" is what forms & navigates Islamic application to society and politics. Because "Spirit" implies idea which is a Intellectual Hypothesis. The basic hypothesis of Islam is that everything must be for the purpose of complying to the Mandates of the Divine according to Islam, thereby politics and society would fall under its jurisdiction.

So how can you say you're against Islamism, when what you describe is identical to Islam? Furthermore, based on your statements elsewhere on the forum; You oppose Islamic Moral rules, such as Obligatory Fasting, Regulations on Sexual Behavior within the bounds of married heterosexual couples. Things not directly political. All of which suggests that you're against Islam itself, not just Islam in politics.

So either you're...

1) lying to yourself and don't know what "Islam" or "Islamism" mean
2)) Fully aware that "Islamism" actually refers to Islam, but use the word "Islamism" as a convenient diversion to feign legitimacy in the Muslim social conscious, so that Muslims won't discredit you as an apostate, and thus completely ignore you.

So I ask you again ......why don't you just admit you're against Islam itself and you want to suppress it? Others in the Anti-Islam movement are bold and overt with their motives.

Even Other Secularists know there is no difference between Islam and Islamism. And they're openly against Islam. Why do you feel the need to pretend?

You know there is a hil of difference between Islamism and Islam. Then in Islam We have many kinds like Shia,Sunni,Wahabi,Ismaili,Sufi etc and I am for Sufí one. Also I like Ismaili Islam.
I am not against fasting but for the option to keep fast or feed poor. This what Quran tells.
From Arab culture I mean Wahabi Arabs.Not the pre Islam Arab culture which was a great culture.
I just like Sufí Islam other wise I could reject it as I reject Islamism or Wahabi Islam.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

You know there is a hil of difference between Islamism and Islam. Then in Islam We have many kinds like Shia,Sunni,Wahabi,Ismaili,Sufi etc and I am for Sufí one. Also I like Ismaili Islam.
I am not against fasting but for the option to keep fast or feed poor. This what Quran tells.
From Arab culture I mean Wahabi Arabs.Not the pre Islam Arab culture which was a great culture.
I just like Sufí Islam other wise I could reject it as I reject Islamism or Wahabi Islam.

That's a different issue entirely, we're not talking about "Sects"

You describe Islamism as a political and social order that that seeks to aply Islam in these spheres. Islam by the nature of its existence also aims for that same objective, by the very nature of the qualities and attributes you use to describe Islamism.

What was I said was that You're against the OBLIGATION of fasting, It was actually shown to you that the Arabic verses verify that Qur'an is saying it's an obligation except when one's health might be affected. So your argument s not consistent with what the Qur'an actually says in Arabic.

Your statement that Wahhabism is Arab culture is a contradiction since the Pre-Islamic culture was the heritage of the Arabs, which means that Wahhabism cannot be by definition Arab culture since it came after Arab culture was supplanted by Islam.

Your description of Islamism ....is the same description of Islam. Even your statement about "Sufi Islam" is an inaccuracy. Sufis were Adamant about Shari'ah. All Sufism is the spiritual aspect of Islam, it is not a separate idea. This is something established by Sufis themselves.

[jankhan]

Badlun is striving for a lost cause. He is the most confused person on this forum.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

It's not that [MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION] wants secularism that's the issue. If they want secularism that ls fine. What I'm trying to address is that they claim they're not against Islam itself, when by all apparent evidence, they are.

The problem is that they'll support anything as long as it suppresses Islam, even if that thing is more harmful. This is completely illogical. Take for example the Egyptian military, The Egyptian Military for 60 years has oppressed and tyrannized Egyptians, and have committed more violations to basic secular human rights in just the first few months back into power than anything Morsi was even accused of doing.

Badlun portrays the narrative that the Egyptian Military liberated Egypt, that they couldn't tolerate just 1 year of Morsi rule, but were ok with the return of Egyptian Military even after more than 60 years of oppression at its hands.

This indicates that [MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION] isn't concerned with the welfare of society or secular values but just has an animosity against Islam. As long as it is hostile to Islam, Badlun will support it

[jankhan]

It's not that [MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION] wants secularism that's the issue. If they want secularism that ls fine. What I'm trying to address is that they claim they're not against Islam itself, when by all apparent evidence, they are.

The problem is that they'll support anything as long as it suppresses Islam, even if that thing is more harmful. This is completely illogical. Take for example the Egyptian military, The Egyptian Military for 60 years has oppressed and tyrannized Egyptians, and have committed more violations to basic secular human rights in just the first few months back into power than anything Morsi was even accused of doing.

Badlun portrays the narrative that the Egyptian Military liberated Egypt, that they couldn't tolerate just 1 year of Morsi rule, but were ok with the return of Egyptian Military even after more than 60 years of oppression at its hands.

This indicates that [MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION] isn't concerned with the welfare of society or secular values but just has an animosity against Islam. As long as it is hostile to Islam, Badlun will support it

You very understood the intentions of Badlun. Badlun will support anyone or anything that goes against Islam.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

If Badlun is against Islamic Governments because they are harmful , then this is a legitimate criticism. But if he's OK with supporting Hamful secular governments just because they oppose Islam, this shows that his hostility towards Islam takes priority than social welfare.

[Khostai]

Good questions. I have completed My studies and now a days on a good job in UN.Have a small circle of friends who share my ideas.Once get good amount of money will start an organization in the real world. So far active in virtual world of PF.

Are those small circle of friends also Pashtun? Or just other ethnicity? I mean I really want to know how you want to influence Pashtun culture.....

and what kind of job do you have in the UN? Do you want to start publishing books about ethics and culture? Or you going to start a political party?

[Khostai]

It's not that [MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION] wants secularism that's the issue. If they want secularism that ls fine. What I'm trying to address is that they claim they're not against Islam itself, when by all apparent evidence, they are.

The problem is that they'll support anything as long as it suppresses Islam, even if that thing is more harmful. This is completely illogical. Take for example the Egyptian military, The Egyptian Military for 60 years has oppressed and tyrannized Egyptians, and have committed more violations to basic secular human rights in just the first few months back into power than anything Morsi was even accused of doing.

Badlun portrays the narrative that the Egyptian Military liberated Egypt, that they couldn't tolerate just 1 year of Morsi rule, but were ok with the return of Egyptian Military even after more than 60 years of oppression at its hands.

This indicates that [MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION] isn't concerned with the welfare of society or secular values but just has an animosity against Islam. As long as it is hostile to Islam, Badlun will support it

Hmm so Badlun have more in commone with the fundi of barakzai and Khushal than I tought. They are the same, just have a diffrent opnion around Islam, both supports violence just to reach their cause.

[Badlun]

As I explained many times, I struggle for secularism,democracy, human rights etc through peaceful and political and educational means not violence and I am against Islamists, Wahabists,Salafis, Tableghis,Deobabdis but not against Sufis, Ismailis or those Muslims who just follow the five pillars of Islam but do not consider Islam as complete code of life.

[Yousufzai]

As I explained many times, I struggle for secularism,democracy, human rights etc

Why do you like America and Pakistan then?

[Badlun]

Why do you like America and Pakistan then?

A parte from some mistakes in their foreign policy ,both USA and Pakistan are democratic countries. Pakistan has problems with its constitution which is based on Islamism. USA is the súper power and I love this country for its achievements in all spheres of life not like Somalia or Sudan.

[randolph85]

For political secularism but against political Islam

yet pretends to be a Muslim

yeah, this guy is mos def an Afghan Hindu or Sikh, and that is giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is even from Afghanistan at all.

[jankhan]

But I don't know of any sufi who has praised or followed oSHO. He is most probably a Hindu.