Where does ISIS get's it's inspiration?

[Karachi]

You have valid questions and they cannot be ignored.

Too many practising Muslims/"Islamists" use simplistic arguments:

i: They don't address the issue and divert the topic to something else.

ii: They basically try to silence people by saying things such as such discussion is sinful or will cause people to fall astray etc

iii: Other things.

Your point seems to be is the violence that certain Islamic groups carry out scripture based?

Yes, it is partially but mainly on non-Quranic sources even sometimes alleged accounts of the Sahaba (companions of the prophet صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم) or even ijtihadaat or fatawaa (legal rulings of "scholars") of so-called "Ulama" (scholars).

Even then when it is ostensibly derived from these questionable sources it even contradicts some of these sources.

The fact, historical fact, is that Muslims came from Arabia and conquered the largely Christian middle east (the middle east is the home of Christianity, Jesus pbuh was ethnically more like a Syrian, Palestinian, Iraqi Arab Christian than John Smith from London or Dan Whatmore from Boston).

They conquered a heavily Christian region and left the Christians there and their churches for centuries. Naturally as the ruling power and as a religion that seeks to convert, many people became Muslim but this was done in an organic and natural manner and not a forced manner.

The point being is that non-Muslims do enjoy security and safety in Muslim lands.

If however one follows either traditional Sunni or Shia schools of thought which both rely on questionable non-Quranic sources such as Bukhari or Usool-ul-Kafi and also the alleged scholarly works of these schools then yes, the truth is one would conclude that this form of "Islam" is indeed quite intolerant.

However this is not the true Islam of the Quran.

During the time of the prophet there were the munafiqeen (hypocrites) who wanted to destroy Islam, then after his death they continued and then there were "zanadiqa" who infiltrated Islam and introduced non-Islamic, non-Quranic concepts (some of which contradict Quranic Islam e.g. death for apostates) including the introduction of jurispudence from Rabbinical Judaism e.g. stoning the adulterer, killing apostates etc.

It's a completed issue but I have been in the house of big Sufi shuyookhs in both Mecca and Damascus (not that what I am saying what they believe in) and I have studied this issue but I cannot divulge much more because the person I am studying with (an Arab from a Sayyid family) has not authorized me to speak too much about this.

Bottom line, do your basics, your five pillars, eat halal, avoid riba, be a nice person, give charity, avoid the controversial things.

I personally think Islam or any other religion for that matter is what you make of it.

People can be like Abdul Sattar Edhi who do great work in the if Islam, But on the other side of the coin, there are extremists who do very evil things in the name of Islam as well. This is why I think religion should never be politicized, it only brings harm to all it's followers, even great people like Edhi

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

yes, but why blame them for what their ancestors did? I am focusing on present and looking at them as they are today

if you are going to ignore the past, you won't fully understand the present.

besides, take a look at their present. They killed more than 4 million muslims only recently http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns...-1990-39149394

[randolph85]

yes, but why blame them for what their ancestors did? I am focusing on present and looking at them as they are today

You say ancestors as if this was in the far past.

They can kill first hand or by policy.

Look at the Iraq sanctions of the 90s for example, the estimate is between half a million to a million dead Iraqi children.

Of course western morality or way of life was never at question because all it took for this genocide to happen was some signatures on a piece of paper. Was this more civilized to you than a western executioner beheading a million Iraqis?

[Karachi]

There is a difference between American (political values) and their cultural values. I already said that America is the biggest evil (politically) however you can't blame the people or all westerners for what american politicians/military have done in the Middle East. Also among those 4 million dead, how many were muslims killing each other, or Sunni vs Shia conflict? probably majority of them. America just created the environment for this to happen, they took advantage of the muslim disunity and hatred of each other. So you can't really blame America alone in this. The problem for muslims is from within. We are the most the disunited people who always keep fighting each other over all small issues, and other people take advantage of it. It is really simple as that.

[randolph85]

There is a difference between American (political values) and their cultural values. I already said that America is the biggest evil (politically) however you can't blame the people or all westerners for what american politicians/military have done in the Middle East. Also among those 4 million dead, how many were muslims killing each other, or Sunni vs Shia conflict? probably majority of them. America just created the environment for this to happen, they took advantage of the muslim disunity and hatred of each other. So you can't really blame America alone in this. The problem for muslims is from within. We are the most the disunited people who always keep fighting each other over all small issues, and other people take advantage of it. It is really simple as that.

So the mass murdering leaders of the west were not democratically elected by their people?

If anything, this shows the culpability of those who comfortably elect and reelect mass murderers.

Clinton murders a million Iraqi kids but his biggest blunder in the eyes of westerners is that he got a BJ by an intern. This blunder which he didn't even have to apologize for because his adultery is seen as cool in the same same depraved society where mass murder abroad is acceptable.

[randolph85]

There is a difference between American (political values) and their cultural values. I already said that America is the biggest evil (politically) however you can't blame the people or all westerners for what american politicians/military have done in the Middle East. Also among those 4 million dead, how many were muslims killing each other, or Sunni vs Shia conflict? probably majority of them. America just created the environment for this to happen, they took advantage of the muslim disunity and hatred of each other. So you can't really blame America alone in this. The problem for muslims is from within. We are the most the disunited people who always keep fighting each other over all small issues, and other people take advantage of it. It is really simple as that.

When you start talking and thinking like the kuffar, then who is the "we" that you are talking about in your posts?

[Karachi]

So the mass murdering leaders of the west were not democratically elected by their people?

If anything, this shows the culpability of those who comfortably elect and reelect mass murderers.

Clinton murders a million Iraqi kids but his biggest blunder in the eyes of westerners is that he got a BJ by an intern. This blunder which he didn't even have to apologize for because his adultery is seen as cool in the same same depraved society where mass murder abroad is acceptable.

when did clinton murder 1 million Iraqi kids?

[Karachi]

When you start talking and thinking like the kuffar, then who is the "we" that you are talking about in your posts?

I am not talking like them, I just dont want to be like a typical muslim who blames everything on others, even the smallest of things and never fixes him/her self. Lets be honest, even before there was America, muslims were still disunited and killing each other, so why blame everything on America, Israel or the west now?

[randolph85]

when did clinton murder 1 million Iraqi kids?

I should of said half a million based on the evidence I had but note this figure was based in the mid 90s, how many more until 2003 who knows.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/01/world/iraq-sanctions-kill-children-un-reports.html

[randolph85]

I am not talking like them, I just dont want to be like a typical muslim who blames everything on others, even the smallest of things and never fixes him/her self. Lets be honest, even before there was America, muslims were still disunited and killing each other, so why blame everything on America, Israel or the west now?

In recent history most of these conflicts were created and perpetuated by non Muslim western states.

Lets take Afg for example because I would lose sleep listing all the countries that the west had their hand in ****ing up.

Anyone who has studied the 80s war understands that this was just a chess match between the Soviet Union and America. No regard for how many people would die or how many lives would be broken. America was elated that the Soviets invaded because they wanted to give them their Vietnam. Of course the Afghans on the ground cared not of high stakes international games, they wanted to fight and they did.

Afghanistan was not a battle ground during Zahir Shah's reign, not because he was a great leader but because outside states did not see Afghanistan as a playground until 1979.

[کیش]

The defectors of Ali's army from the battle of Siffin was known as Khariji. The Khariji is where Daeshi's get their inspiration from.

study the battle of Siffin.