Afghan and Pakistani intelligence agencies sign MOU

[khushal]

That is not their job. Intelligence agencies like the CIA, MI5, ISI is having/controlling Assets outside of their borders.

The FBI is the top agency in america to track and monior suspicious individuals within their borders. so what is the FBI equivalent for Pakistan

Pakistan and the US dont operate the same way. Pakistan is a police state where the ISI operates inside and outside Pakistan and spies on political parties, foreign nationals, military intelligence, etc and reports all activities to the Army.

[tripledouble]

Totally serious question, what actually makes the ISI one of the best intelligence organisations? Surely in terms of national security the ISI has failed to protect the lives of Pakistanis (from bombings) time and time again? 40,000 lives in 10 years I think the figure is.

ISI's role is like any intel agency, to protect a country's interest, little to do with internal security but even then they have some responsibility, so for every terrorist attack you hear about you don't hear about the dozens that get foiled, it's the successful ones that make the news

There r close to 20 intelligence agencies in Pakistan, ISI is 1 of them but got most famous cuz of cold war.

ISI is consider one of the best for it's strict professionalism and also how they have rarely had double agents; all the top brass treat each other like brothers and their juniors like sons, there's a strong bond within the org, this is also why they were successful during cold war against KGB and later in 90s,2000s against other external forces

Pakistan and the US dont operate the same way. Pakistan is a police state where the ISI operates inside and outside Pakistan and spies on political parties, foreign nationals, military intelligence, etc and reports all activities to the Army.

Ur wrong, the Pakistan equivalent of a FBI is the FIA we have here & the FIA is for keep track of internal problems, we also have close to 20 other intel agencies like IB & MI who have different roles

[Adam]

ISI's role is like any intel agency, to protect a country's interest, little to do with internal security but even then they have some responsibility, so for every terrorist attack you hear about you don't hear about the dozens that get foiled, it's the successful ones that make the news

Not sure how accurate the wiki page is, but the picture it paints is that the ISI is heavily involved in internal security, they've lost members in FATA during operations, they take part in the arrests of terrorists (a job which would belong to the FBI in the US not the CIA).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Services_Intelligence#Al_Qaeda_and_Taliban_militants_captured

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Services_Intelligence#Pakistan

[marwat]

Totally serious question, what actually makes the ISI one of the best intelligence organisations? Surely in terms of national security the ISI has failed to protect the lives of Pakistanis (from bombings) time and time again? 40,000 lives in 10 years I think the figure is.

mara hagha yo matal de we lewanoi ta khudaye zoye warkaro na pa chapawane ya marr ko. da punjabi hagha loba de
it's more than 100000 lives in eight years.

[tilla_jogian]

Totally serious question, what actually makes the ISI one of the best intelligence organisations? Surely in terms of national security the ISI has failed to protect the lives of Pakistanis (from bombings) time and time again? 40,000 lives in 10 years I think the figure is.

We have to remember when people say 50.000 or 60.000 Pakistanis killed, more then half of them are terrorists.

Total killed since 2003 till 17th May 2015, 57.684.

20385 civilians, 6156 security forces, 31143 terrorists.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/casualties.htm

[khushal]

Ur wrong, the Pakistan equivalent of a FBI is the FIA we have here & the FIA is for keep track of internal problems, we also have close to 20 other intel agencies like IB & MI who have different roles

Pakistan has over 30 intelligence agencies and the ISI is the largest and reports directly to the Army which makes it a police state that ensures Army rule at all times. It was the ISI who organized the protests against Nawaz Sharif in Islamabad recently to take control of foreign policy and it was the ISI who helped Musharaf depose Nawaz Sharif back in the late 90's.

The ISI basically is used to suppress the Paksitani people's wish and advance the Army's and the Army is on the payroll of outsiders. The ISI was the brainchild of an English man:

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-2-274496-Maj-Gen-Robert-Cawthome-was-the-longest-serving-ISI-chief

“The Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) was founded in 1948 by a British army officer, Major General (R). Cawthome, the then Deputy Chief of Staff in the Pakistan Army. Field Marshal Ayub Khan, the President of Pakistan, had expanded the role of ISI in safeguarding Pakistan’s interests, monitoring opposition politicians, and sustaining military rule in Pakistan.”

[tilla_jogian]

Pakistan has over 30 intelligence agencies and the ISI is the largest and reports directly to the Army which makes it a police state that ensures Army rule at all times. It was the ISI who organized the protests against Nawaz Sharif in Islamabad recently to take control of foreign policy and it was the ISI who helped Musharaf depose Nawaz Sharif back in the late 90's.

The ISI basically is used to suppress the Paksitani people's wish and advance the Army's and the Army is on the payroll of outsiders. The ISI was the brainchild of an English man:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-New...ving-ISI-chief

Come back to 2015, Imran Khan hoped that army will step in and announce elections. Which didn't happen and Peshawar attack happened in right time for PTI to abandone dharna.

[khushal]

Come back to 2015, Imran Khan hoped that army will step in and announce elections. Which didn't happen and Peshawar attack happened in right time for PTI to abandone dharna.

In order to know the present, one must know the history.

[Azmal]

So basically this just kicks all the Afghan nationalists and persiofascists arguments right up their own arses. They dont need Taliban to make Afghanistan its 5th province when these nationalists and persiofascists are just handing Afghanistan to them. What does Azmal, Marwat, Toramana and the other inept nationalists say about this.

Coming from someone who wants us to formally bestow Pashtonistan to Punjos?
There is a saying-- there are no friends or enemies in politics, only allies. Ghani is playing a long game, and it may work. But if you think Ghani believes that Pakistan will not backstab Afghanistan again then you’re the biggest dumb in face of Earth. Ghani knows the real power in Pakistan so he is making them a “stakeholder” against terrorism. This will make Pakis accountable for every single bomb blast that will go off in Afghanistan and which will be trace to Pakistan.(99% all being planned in Pakistan.) At the same time Ghani is using China card to pressure Pakis. The fact is war has reached its end in Afghanistan, it cannot be continued no more (no matter how much Salay, Atta and Karzi wish to restrict the war inside Afghanistan for their own personal interest.) The war was never an Afghan war no matter how much the media try to portray it. Islamist project need to march to central Asia, either from north Afghanistan or from Wazeristan and Pakistan knows it very well. The war between Afghanistan and Pakistan is more about management of Islamist project, Pakistan is worried if Kabul gets hold of Islamist knife it will cut Pakistan in half—especially for what Pakistan has have done to Afghanistan for past 40 years. In short run Ghani is trying to find a balance, between Pakistan and Iran, under the dominance of US and European interest, against a threat of ISIS type fundamentalism. Ghani needs to have the political wit of a weasel to make this work, so we should not be too surprised if he occasionally looks like one. Things are moving in Afghanistan favor, but make no mistake we Afghans will never allow Pakistan to survive in its current shape or farm with or without Ghani.

[khushal]

Coming from someone who wants us to formally bestow Pashtonistan to Punjos?
There is a saying-- there are no friends or enemies in politics, only allies. Ghani is playing a long game, and it may work. But if you think Ghani believes that Pakistan will not backstab Afghanistan again then you’re the biggest dumb in face of Earth. Ghani knows the real power in Pakistan so he is making them a “stakeholder” against terrorism. This will make Pakis accountable for every single bomb blast that will go off in Afghanistan and which will be trace to Pakistan.(99% all being planned in Pakistan.) At the same time Ghani is using China card to pressure Pakis. The fact is war has reached its end in Afghanistan, it cannot be continued no more (no matter how much Salay, Atta and Karzi wish to restrict the war inside Afghanistan for their own personal interest.) The war was never an Afghan war no matter how much the media try to portray it. Islamist project need to march to central Asia, either from north Afghanistan or from Wazeristan and Pakistan knows it very well. The war between Afghanistan and Pakistan is more about management of Islamist project, Pakistan is worried if Kabul gets hold of Islamist knife it will cut Pakistan in half—especially for what Pakistan has have done to Afghanistan for past 40 years. In short run Ghani is trying to find a balance, between Pakistan and Iran, under the dominance of US and European interest, against a threat of ISIS type fundamentalism. Ghani needs to have the political wit of a weasel to make this work, so we should not be too surprised if he occasionally looks like one. Things are moving in Afghanistan favor, but make no mistake we Afghans will never allow Pakistan to survive in its current shape or farm with or without Ghani.

You foolishly believe Ghani has any cards to play here. What the pakis are doing is playing divide and rule. They are actually trying to balance afghan gov with Taliban since the Pakis have figured that the militant groups they use against India and Afghanistan are also now targeting them. It is not in the Pakis interest for the Kabul regime to fall to the Taliban since the Taliban would use those militant groups the ISI groomed against not only India but also the Paki Army.

The Pakis best hope now is to keep the militants busy against Kabul and use FATA and the tribal belt on the Afghan side as a buffer against these militant groups they have groomed.

[tilla_jogian]

In order to know the present, one must know the history.

And one most come back to present also, you are stuck there.

[Azmal]

You foolishly believe Ghani has any cards to play here. What the pakis are doing is playing divide and rule.

Ghani still maintain Karzi gov policy---terrorism base are outside Afghanistan and gov must stop using terrorism as arm of their foreign policy. Moreover Kabul has not downgraded her relationship with India, even by refusing arm shipment. The problem is you Pakis see India relationship with Afghanistan as zero sum game.

They are actually trying to balance afghan gov with Taliban since the Pakis have figured that the militant groups they use against India and Afghanistan are also now targeting them. It is not in the Pakis interest for the Kabul regime to fall to the Taliban since the Taliban would use those militant groups the ISI groomed against not only India but also the Paki Army.
The Pakis best hope now is to keep the militants busy against Kabul and use FATA and the tribal belt on the Afghan side as a buffer against these militant groups they have groomed.

You still don’t understand the natural of this war, or the player and proxies. Afghanistan is the center of a mini-world war toward Central Asia and for first time in her history Pakistan needs friendship with Kabul. It is not matter of joke that Nawaz Sharif, head of ISI and army chief of staff visit Kabul every other week, this proves how desperate Pakistan really is. Kabul can path those going to Central Asia towards "Waziristan". If you remain Latif Massod you would realized how much blood NDS has shed in order to turn those "militant groups" against Pakistani state. Mind you, MOU to train NDS agent is interest of Afghanistan for providing technical equipment to Afghan national security is beneficial to Afghanistan. Interaction between NDS and ISI stuff cannot change the brain of a security officer who in past forty or twenty years has seen the deeds of ISI, most of time at the expense of colleague blood. As Ghani had said, the problem is not Taliban but political relationship between Pakistan and Afghanistan. I believe the war with its world order nature had entered a new phase, and at the moment is in collision with regional policy. Dr Ghani is trying to link regions economic network in Afghanistan, thus making everyone stakeholder in stability. If the news of Taliban visit to Iran is true, then I would think the Taliban cancer will be cured as a result of consultations Britain, Iran, America and Pakistan. I would assume the groups new term and purpose will be defined in few months or so. The objective is to loosen Pakistan control over Talib proxy, even when all of senior Taliban and their family are in Pakistan and under ISI safeguard. What will be remains a devastating volcano is the Pakistani Taliban; thus Pakistan and UK are working overtime to at least minimize Pakistani Taliban who digger is firmly in hand of Kabul. Operation in Shawal, Wazeristan and this MOU are to this end.

[khushal]

Ghani still maintain Karzi gov policy---terrorism base are outside Afghanistan and gov must stop using terrorism as arm of their foreign policy. Moreover Kabul has not downgraded her relationship with India, even by refusing arm shipment. The problem is you Pakis see India relationship with Afghanistan as zero sum game.

This is mental diarrhea. The insurgency effects Afghanistan the most and there are many bases on Afghan soil. Most of the rural areas are completely in the insurgent hands:

http://www.worldbulletin.net/asia-pacific/159007/taliban-take-control-of-key-district-in-afghanistan

http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/as-us-withdraws-from-afghanistan-darkness-falls-on-taliban-s-birthplace-1.345568

http://www.tasnimnews.com/english/Home/Single/735803

The list is endless.

You still don’t understand the natural of this war, or the player and proxies. Afghanistan is the center of a mini-world war toward Central Asia and for first time in her history Pakistan needs friendship with Kabul. It is not matter of joke that Nawaz Sharif, head of ISI and army chief of staff visit Kabul every other week, this proves how desperate Pakistan really is. Kabul can path those going to Central Asia towards "Waziristan". If you remain Latif Massod you would realized how much blood NDS has shed in order to turn those "militant groups" against Pakistani state.

This is a moronic claim. It wasnt persiofascist gov in Kabul that turned the militants against Pakistan Army, it was Paki Army itself that turned the militants against itself by playing a double game. You persiofascist gov taking credit for that is laughable.

http://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/change-is-coming-pakistans-middle-classes-are-angry

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30532846

Mind you, MOU to train NDS agent is interest of Afghanistan for providing technical equipment to Afghan national security is beneficial to Afghanistan. Interaction between NDS and ISI stuff cannot change the brain of a security officer who in past forty or twenty years has seen the deeds of ISI, most of time at the expense of colleague blood.

The ISI is the brainchild of English intelligence , they created the ISI and they are masters at misinformation.

As Ghani had said, the problem is not Taliban but political relationship between Pakistan and Afghanistan. I believe the

war with its world order nature had entered a new phase, and at the moment is in collision with regional policy. Dr Ghani is trying to link regions economic network in Afghanistan, thus making everyone stakeholder in stability. If the news of Taliban visit to Iran is true, then I would think the Taliban cancer will be cured as a result of consultations Britain, Iran, America and Pakistan. I would assume the groups new term and purpose will be defined in few months or so. The objective is to loosen Pakistan control over Talib proxy, even when all of senior Taliban and their family are in Pakistan and under ISI safeguard. What will be remains a devastating volcano is the Pakistani Taliban; thus Pakistan and UK are working overtime to at least minimize Pakistani Taliban who digger is firmly in hand of Kabul. Operation in Shawal, Wazeristan and this MOU are to this end.

Then why beg the Taliban for peace, just make peace with Pakistan which it seems like you handing everything over to them, you have made peace. So that should be the end of it. But as we see the situation, the Persiofascist Afghan gov is in serious trouble which means the militants will have a base to attack the Pak army which is what the pak Army is trying to prevent by reaching out to Kabul. The Pakis are now as scared as the Persiofascist in Kabul is and they should be. You can fool the people some of the time but not all of the time.

The pakis and the persiofascist gov in Kabul wants to keep the status quo of fires burning in pashtunlands while they get blank checks from America. All your arguments promote the policy that make brutal butchers and rapists rich while poor pashtun blood is spilled.

[Insight]

Dr Ghani is trying to link regions economic network in Afghanistan, thus making everyone stakeholder in stability. If the news of Taliban visit to Iran is true, then I would think the Taliban cancer will be cured as a result of consultations Britain, Iran, America and Pakistan. I would assume the groups new term and purpose will be defined in few months or so. The objective is to loosen Pakistan control over Talib proxy, even when all of senior Taliban and their family are in Pakistan and under ISI safeguard. What will be remains a devastating volcano is the Pakistani Taliban; thus Pakistan and UK are working overtime to at least minimize Pakistani Taliban who digger is firmly in hand of Kabul. Operation in Shawal, Wazeristan and this MOU are to this end.

@Azmal

How does the Taliban visit to Iran help Ghani's goals of making every nation a stakeholder in the current Kabul regime? This thread ought to give you some background info that goes over the complex relationship Iran has with the Taliban and other Afghan insurgents.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=46557

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/07/iran_and_the_taliban.php

Please explain from what angle you were looking at that.