Pakistan army chief visiting Afghanistan

[Azmal]

I like the quality of this thread.

In my opinion, it appears that Ghani has realized that Afghanistan can't continue to butt-heads with Pakistan, and they are as of now in the process of negotiating an agreement that would prevent both nations from supporting terrorists. To be clear, Afghanistan has massive soft-power, which is evident from the amount of attacks in Pakistan.

The usual trend is, an attack in Afghanistan, and then weeks later, a more devastating(if not on par)attack in Pakistan. Amrullah Saleh played a major role in the rise of softpower.

Amrullah Saleh was gone years ago...the recent raise of "soft power" as you put it has more to do with Karzai--no matter how much people blame Karzia for his short coming(blame is rightfully—he could have done so much.) he understood the game at the end. The bottom line brave Wazirs and Massod are yet again sacrificing for mother land Afghanistan!

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Afghan-Pakhtuns are a ruler class. Warriors and natural leaders of men.It is a matter of time when they will descend upon the Indus valley as they have done throughout history. We don't know,at this stage the process or modality - whether peaceful or violent. It is inevitable.And then this hurricane from the Hindukush will burst upon the plains of Hindustan.

In Pashtu there's a word for what you're doing; chaplusi. Let me guess you're some type of Fanatical South Asian , imagining some fabled reconquista of Hind by the Mighty Pashtuns and willing to dole out a sister or daughter of yours to a fair skinned Green Eyed Pashtun in some hopes of genetically blighting out any connection you have to being a progeny of of Hindu/Non-Muslim ancestry that you perceive of as inferior or less worthy?

We've had Pashtun rulers sure, a few ambitious souls from the flock but by and large we're no "ruler class" and even less so now than ever. Most Pashtuns are peasants that graze animals and sip green tea. We're people too deceived by our own propaganda.

There is no "matter of time" we're a failed third world country in a battle for wits with other failed third world countries.

It always seems that it is weird Fanboy outsiders from Pakistan or Bangladesh who keep trying to push us into battle when it is Pashtun children dying for it.

Most of us are tired of dying .....we don't want failed dream of conquests anymore.

[Azmal]

In Pashtu there's a word for what you're doing; chaplusi. Let me guess you're some type of Fanatical South Asian , imagining some fabled reconquista of Hind by the Mighty Pashtuns and willing to dole out a sister or daughter of yours to a fair skinned Green Eyed Pashtun in some hopes of genetically blighting out any connection you have to being a progeny of of Hindu/Non-Muslim ancestry that you perceive of as inferior or less worthy?

We've had Pashtun rulers sure, a few ambitious souls from the flock but by and large we're no "ruler class" and even less so now than ever. Most Pashtuns are peasants that graze animals and sip green tea. We're people too deceived by our own propaganda.

There is no "matter of time" we're a failed third world country in a battle for wits with other failed third world countries.

It always seems that it is weird Fanboy outsiders from Pakistan or Bangladesh who keep trying to push us into battle when it is Pashtun children dying for it.

Most of us are tired of dying .....we don't want failed dream of conquests anymore.

Due to our geo location our children have had been dying for centuries...not fighting or being nonviolence like Khudi Khatmagarian has already cost us dearly---thrown to wolves as Bacha khan had said. Sadly there need to be lot of bloodshed to get out of our present miserable state---we need to work for breaking away the post-colonial, superficial, nuclear proliferating, and terrorism sponsoring basked case known as “Pakistan” into smaller, manageable sub-units drifting back into unions with bordering states with shared commonalities. Then, we could make all state borders inconsequential by encouraging a free trade zone between India, Iran and Central Asia….with the potential to extend further into Russia and China so that they don’t feel dangerously alienated.

[Azmal]

Post by @Azmal



In another thread started by @Kushan Prince, Azmal stated that Raheel Sharif the current Pakistan army chief has gone to Afghanistan 5 times in 4 months, which is basically a visit every month (more actually).

Now before Azmal wrote that I myself never thought too much of it.

Sharif is the de facto ruler of Pakistan and there have been jokes that he has been acting as a de facto foreign minister with extensive visits to many countries in the past few months.

However we also need to bear in mind the following.

- Not only does the Pakistan army rule Pakistan, it is perhaps the biggest organization in the country and the biggest employer.

Purely in employment terms it creates jobs for hundreds and thousands of Pakistanis (mainly Punjabis and Pashtuns of the Peshawar Valley e.g. Pekhawar, Kohat, Mardan etc).




Raheel Sharif, current Pakistan army chief and de facto ruler of Pakistan.

- Raheel Sharif is obviously in his own eyes and the eyes of his people who revere him and his army not just a VIP but a VVIP, so why is this VVIP constantly visiting Kabul?

Kabul is the capital of Afghanistan, a country which Pakistani nationalists view as of secondary importance, an "inferior" state which should align itself with the more powerful Pakistan (in their eyes).

For some Pakistani nationalists whose goal is to make Afghanistan the de facto "5th province of Pakistan", Kabul would/should be in real terms as important as Quetta (capital of Balochistan).

No one would imagine Raheel Sharif going to Quetta 5 times in 4 months, so why is this man, essentially a dictator, visiting Kabul so frequently?

@Azmal stated it is because the Pakistani army generals are very worried about the prospect of Afghan intelligence unleashing militancy against the Pakistani military.


Any thoughts on this?

@Toramana @gadoonwal @Smarty @Kushan Prince @Al-Afghani

After all this blood and cry…more than 40 years of imposed war Afghanistan still survived intact---even during civil war—although each group was formed according to ethnic base but all were fighting to gain power in Kabul—within the framework of Afghanistan----unlike any of our neighbors there was NOT and there is no secessionist movement. The question is when **** hits the fun in an artificial state like Pakistan which has seen countless Baloch, Sindi, Saraki and Pashton rebellion can it survive ?
Upon "independence", Pakistan’s national army comprised of dutiful soldiers from the British Raj and English colonels who made sure their investment delivers. For two hundred years Pakis faithfully serve colonial Britain and just as their master took the dream of dominate Afghanistan to their graves these brown butted cockroaches will too.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Due to our geo location our children have had been dying for centuries...not fighting or being nonviolence like Khudi Khatmagarian has already cost us dearly---thrown to wolves as Bacha khan had said. Sadly there need to be lot of bloodshed to get out of our present miserable state---we need to work for breaking away the post-colonial, superficial, nuclear proliferating, and terrorism sponsoring basked case known as “Pakistan” into smaller, manageable sub-units drifting back into unions with bordering states with shared commonalities. Then, we could make all state borders inconsequential by encouraging a free trade zone between India, Iran and Central Asia….with the potential to extend further into Russia and China so that they don’t feel dangerously alienated.

I didn't say we should be passive, I am not a pacifist; but this creepy Desi fellow with some weird Bromance for Pashtuns conquering Hind or some nonsense, is delusional. We're tough talkers and sure bloodhed is inevitable; but we're the ones paying for it, not anyone else.

What will happen is the entire region will fragment into "manageable subunits" except maybe India, but alas that's what we get for empty bravado.

[Bengal_Tiger]

After all this blood and cry…more than 40 years of imposed war Afghanistan still survived intact---even during civil war—although each group was formed according to ethnic base but all were fighting to gain power in Kabul—within the framework of Afghanistan----unlike any of our neighbors there was NOT and there is no secessionist movement. The question is when **** hits the fun in an artificial state like Pakistan which has seen countless Baloch, Sindi, Saraki and Pashton rebellion can it survive ?
Upon "independence", Pakistan’s national army comprised of dutiful soldiers from the British Raj and English colonels who made sure their investment delivers. For two hundred years Pakis faithfully serve colonial Britain and just as their master took the dream of dominate Afghanistan to their graves these brown butted cockroaches will too.

1. The current Afghan state is much stronger than the ones before.

2. China is the world's biggest economy in terms of PPP and soon to be in nominal terms (which is what we usually refer to rather than PPP).

Afghanistan is next door and China will not allow Afghanistan to be destabilized to the point it impacts China.

3. Pakistan is a timebomb.

It is a land of 200 million people with the fertile areas being Punjab and the Sindh but much of the country being sandy desert. The population is exploding but it is a country riven by sectarian as well as ethnic tensions. The Pakistan army live in a "la-la land" where they are leaders of a mighty state with a great Ghazi-like destiny to defeat "evil Hindu" India. They are oblivious to the social suffering and destitution of ordinary Pakistanis and nor do they care. They are engaged in a phallic competition for glory and onemanupship against their rival generals in New Delhi.

It is almost like a medieval joust.

The country is in a state of chaos.

The fact that the head of one of the world's biggest armies, and a nuclear power, with a nuclear arsenal - according to some - greater than Britain's is constantly rushing to Kabul is very interesting.

I still don't know what's going on.

The fact that Ghani has Sharif running to his turf (Kabul) either means Ghani has played his cards very well and Sharif is running to him out of fear of something, (the militancy card which Azmal has mentioned) or something else.

This is a very unusual and interesting situation.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Asad, I second what Yousafzai has said above. here is no more time or national energy or resources for adventurism. We should be self-focused and try to recover centuries of loss by modernizing our societies and settling our conflicts politically (between Tajaks, Pashtuns, Punjabis, Bengla Deshis, Indians, etc.). I am also against this India enmity thing. They are just like us and the stronger and prosperous this region becomes the more there are chances for us to free ourselves of the yolk of neocolonialism.

Freedom and sovereignty is not just physical; it is also economic.

Here in London, there is a mosque in south London which is run by Afghans. This is in Norbury. However Pakistanis go there and Afghans and Pakistanis get on totally fine (I live far from that area but this is the impression I get having been there a few times).

Many Pakistanis and Bengalis get on well also here in London (different story up north with Mirpuris).

Most people wish to lead normal lives and are not in to politics that much.

The west have played divide and rule and have left corrupt surrogates such as the Pakistani Punjabi army to perpetuate their hegemony.

As Azmal has said the Afghan state is very resilient and has endured a lot. I mean both the USSR and USA have come there and the country is still intact and there is no real desire for separation amongst any ethnic group.

I think the Afghan state will continue.

You are totally right in wishing a peaceful region with co-operation and the economic, social and human upliftment of all peoples of the region regardless of race, caste, colour or religion.

[Azmal]

1. The current Afghan state is much stronger than the ones before.

2. China is the world's biggest economy in terms of PPP and soon to be in nominal terms (which is what we usually refer to rather than PPP).

Afghanistan is next door and China will not allow Afghanistan to be destabilized to the point it impacts China.

3. Pakistan is a timebomb.

It is a land of 200 million people with the fertile areas being Punjab and the Sindh but much of the country being sandy desert. The population is exploding but it is a country riven by sectarian as well as ethnic tensions. The Pakistan army live in a "la-la land" where they are leaders of a mighty state with a great Ghazi-like destiny to defeat "evil Hindu" India. They are oblivious to the social suffering and destitution of ordinary Pakistanis and nor do they care. They are engaged in a phallic competition for glory and onemanupship against their rival generals in New Delhi.

It is almost like a medieval joust.

The country is in a state of chaos.

The fact that the head of one of the world's biggest armies, and a nuclear power, with a nuclear arsenal - according to some - greater than Britain's is constantly rushing to Kabul is very interesting.

I still don't know what's going on.

The fact that Ghani has Sharif running to his turf (Kabul) either means Ghani has played his cards very well and Sharif is running to him out of fear of something, (the militancy card which Azmal has mentioned) or something else.

This is a very unusual and interesting situation.

TTP was grown by Musharaf in order to weaken US pressure to do more on war on terror---yet it was abandoned by Pakistan and now it is Afghanistan that is cultivating it. In my opinion ISIS is actively being promoted in our region to be used in central Asia or with India resource it can be directed against Pakistan. ISIS/TTP is a dynamic treat to Pakistan and it makes the Punjbai generals lose sleep. Mind you Pakistan is fighting for her survival as a state—once the balloon of Pakistani military is burst there is no power that can hold Pakistan together. Ghani is playing it very straight with Pakistan--- he has stated during his visit to Pakistan—either we all drown or we all will rise with economically corporation and interregional economical integration. What he stated during parliament opening in Kabul---“we have enter a new war” is a direct warning to Pakistan to get her act together.
Although I don’t think Pakistan military is honest and can never accept Ghanis demand of region’s economic integration—like giving access to India trade to Afghanistan and is only keeping Ghani busy to buy some time.(hope I’m wrong but time will tell.) but if Ghani’s plan work it will raise the region from ashes.

[Azmal]

I didn't say we should be passive, I am not a pacifist; but this creepy Desi fellow with some weird Bromance for Pashtuns conquering Hind or some nonsense, is delusional. We're tough talkers and sure bloodhed is inevitable; but we're the ones paying for it, not anyone else.

What will happen is the entire region will fragment into "manageable subunits" except maybe India, but alas that's what we get for empty bravado.

I know what you mean about fascination or promoting of Pashton by Desi people...there was this Desi mullah/Mavlana that wrote about confederation of Afghanistan and Pakistan in late 90s---he had said of Taliban/Afghans to be very unsophisticated people who are prone to praise---he had said you praise them and they can do anything you want.
I don't think Afghanistan will fragment---it has endured all in past 40 years and still not only survived intact but there is no secessionist movement. Don’t remember this British envoy name who had said Afghanistan is a nation without a state while Pakistan is a state without a nation.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I would argue we've never been in tact. Most of our people are simple tribesman, they just care for the plot of land in front of them. State authority are alien concepts to Pashtun society. The only Pashtuns who embraced the idea of nationhood were those largely removed from the matrix of mainstream Pashtun society.


The only thing that has endured is this cleptocratic shell that has a border with different brigands yielding various spheres of influence. This has been the case even from Ahmad Shah Abdali.

What will most likely happen is that Northern Afghanistan will fall under Russian or Iranian influence, which it already has but more blatantly. Pashtun areas and Pakistan will get absorbed into India

[Bengal_Tiger]

I know what you mean about fascination or promoting of Pashton by Desi people...there was this Desi mullah/Mavlana that wrote about confederation of Afghanistan and Pakistan in late 90s---he had said of Taliban/Afghans to be very unsophisticated people who are prone to praise---he had said you praise them and they can do anything you want.
I don't think Afghanistan will fragment---it has endured all in past 40 years and still not only survived intact but there is no secessionist movement. Don’t remember this British envoy name who had said Afghanistan is a nation without a state while Pakistan is a state without a nation.

Azmal be careful, Brown Skinned Savage is a well-known Arab troll (Yemeni) who has caused immense damage to this forum and driven many users away.

He has an identity crisis and compensates for being non-Pashtun by being hostile to non-Pashtuns on this forum and always using the term "we" (to describe his feelings/opinions whilst trying to speak on behalf of all Afghans).

His previous nicknames were:

RevolutionThroughReason

and before that

ScimitarXEdge


He received a lifetime ban but has shamelessly come back to harass and annoy posters once again.

He usually does not stay on topic and sabotages threads.

He is a walking contradiction because he claims "Islamic universalism" and the rejection of the nation-state (for Muslims) and advocation of a pan-Islamic state, whilst at the same time being very ethno-centric on this forum and hostile to non-Pashtuns (as he is an Arab with an identity crisis trying to be Pashtun) and questioning their presence in this forum.

I do not like talking about posters and their backgrounds per se, but more about the content of the thread. However this situation is very dangerous as this guy is a notorious troll who has damaged this forum hugely and has insulted people personally, sexually, their families, has harassed people out of this forum and is basically a sick bully who gets a pleasure from cyber-bullying.

He also sabotages threads and diverts discussion from the topic on to his own personal interests.

I started this thread for discussion on a certain topic and I doubt he will speak about president Ghani's policy viz a viz Pakistan, as he doesn't like to speak about things he doesn't know (most things) and divert it instead to his list of preferred discussion topics (religious philosophy, ideology, ethno-identity issues).

If he continues to destroy threads I will stop participating (which is of course what he wants as this Yemeni has driven many users away before).

[MENTION=2]Admin Khan[/MENTION] [MENTION=1068]gadoonwal[/MENTION]

[Azmal]

I would argue we've never been in tact. Most of our people are simple tribesman, they just care for the plot of land in front of them. State authority are alien concepts to Pashtun society. The only Pashtuns who embraced the idea of nationhood were those largely removed from the matrix of mainstream Pashtun society.


The only thing that has endured is this cleptocratic shell that has a border with different brigands yielding various spheres of influence. This has been the case even from Ahmad Shah Abdali.

What will most likely happen is that Northern Afghanistan will fall under Russian or Iranian influence, which it already has but more blatantly. Pashtun areas and Pakistan will get absorbed into India

What nonsense, the reason for various spheres of influences has to do with lack of central gov--thanks to communist misadventure.

[Azmal]

Azmal be careful, Brown Skinned Savage is a well-known Arab troll (Yemeni) who has caused immense damage to this forum and driven many users away.

He has an identity crisis and compensates for being non-Pashtun by being hostile to non-Pashtuns on this forum and always using the term "we" (to describe his feelings/opinions whilst trying to speak on behalf of all Afghans).

His previous nicknames were:

RevolutionThroughReason

and before that

ScimitarXEdge


He received a lifetime ban but has shamelessly come back to harass and annoy posters once again.

He usually does not stay on topic and sabotages threads.

He is a walking contradiction because he claims "Islamic universalism" and the rejection of the nation-state (for Muslims) and advocation of a pan-Islamic state, whilst at the same time being very ethno-centric on this forum and hostile to non-Pashtuns (as he is an Arab with an identity crisis trying to be Pashtun) and questioning their presence in this forum.

I do not like talking about posters and their backgrounds per se, but more about the content of the thread. However this situation is very dangerous as this guy is a notorious troll who has damaged this forum hugely and has insulted people personally, sexually, their families, has harassed people out of this forum and is basically a sick bully who gets a pleasure from cyber-bullying.

He also sabotages threads and diverts discussion from the topic on to his own personal interests.

I started this thread for discussion on a certain topic and I doubt he will speak about president Ghani's policy viz a viz Pakistan, as he doesn't like to speak about things he doesn't know (most things) and divert it instead to his list of preferred discussion topics (religious philosophy, ideology, ethno-identity issues).

If he continues to destroy threads I will stop participating (which is of course what he wants as this Yemeni has driven many users away before).

@Admin Khan @gadoonwal

What interest a Yemeni in Afghan affairs? Yemen is in worst state then Afghanistan.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

What nonsense, the reason for various spheres of influences has to do with lack of central gov--thanks to communist misadventure.

Why is it nonsense; were there commies during Ahmad Shah Abdali's time? What about Shah Shuja and Dost Mohammad's time?

Not everyone needs to believe the lies we tell ourselves so we can sleep at night.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

What interest a Yemeni in Afghan affairs? Yemen is in worst state then Afghanistan.

Not sure; I put this guy on ignore after I saw how he keeps having some romantic obsession with Pashtuns and propagandizing constantly; From what you quoted this creepo thinks I'm the big bad "Pathan" who bullied him and stole his lunch money and yet is following me around. I find whatever paranoid delusions this Bangladeshi seems to be under very disturbing. He's talking about sexual perversion yet Bangladesh is known as a bastion for prostitution and other gross things. Talk about projection.