Pakistan army chief visiting Afghanistan

[Bengal_Tiger]

You commies never surprise me with your stupidity! Ghani is either a traitor nor an agent…in fact Ghani is the first Afghan leader in past 100 years that is not claiming empty mottos of da Pashtonistan zemong…and understand the criticalness of economy and geopolitical location of Afghanistan. Ghani has not even given an inch to pakis, everything he has done has been just symbolic. Ghani knows very well that the war in Afghanistan is in transition states---war will move towards central Asia or Pakistan! Just as Punjos were managing the war in past 40 years Afghans will have the opportunity to cash in. Pakistanis will not only lose their milk cow but as Ghani has stated they will not only need to provide Afghanistan with access to warm waters but also need to open the door to India access to Afghanistan. If Pakistan refuses then with unlimited India’s resources the war will start in Waziristan and will burn Pakistan to ashes. President Ghani’s remark “the new war has started” during the parliament opening ceremony was a direct warning to Punjo Generals. No wonder Pakis are so eager to negotiate with Ghani as they know what will come to them. (Ever wonder by in less than 4 months Gen Sharif and ISI director have visited Kabul more than 5 times?)


Question---Why is everyone that don’t believes in your socialist/communist BS are labeled as agent and traitor by you commoies? Why almost the emotional appeal mottos hu? Lol

Post by [MENTION=1444]Azmal[/MENTION]



In another thread started by [MENTION=5723]Kushan Prince[/MENTION], Azmal stated that Raheel Sharif the current Pakistan army chief has gone to Afghanistan 5 times in 4 months, which is basically a visit every month (more actually).

Now before Azmal wrote that I myself never thought too much of it.

Sharif is the de facto ruler of Pakistan and there have been jokes that he has been acting as a de facto foreign minister with extensive visits to many countries in the past few months.

However we also need to bear in mind the following.

- Not only does the Pakistan army rule Pakistan, it is perhaps the biggest organization in the country and the biggest employer.

Purely in employment terms it creates jobs for hundreds and thousands of Pakistanis (mainly Punjabis and Pashtuns of the Peshawar Valley e.g. Pekhawar, Kohat, Mardan etc).




Raheel Sharif, current Pakistan army chief and de facto ruler of Pakistan.

- Raheel Sharif is obviously in his own eyes and the eyes of his people who revere him and his army not just a VIP but a VVIP, so why is this VVIP constantly visiting Kabul?

Kabul is the capital of Afghanistan, a country which Pakistani nationalists view as of secondary importance, an "inferior" state which should align itself with the more powerful Pakistan (in their eyes).

For some Pakistani nationalists whose goal is to make Afghanistan the de facto "5th province of Pakistan", Kabul would/should be in real terms as important as Quetta (capital of Balochistan).

No one would imagine Raheel Sharif going to Quetta 5 times in 4 months, so why is this man, essentially a dictator, visiting Kabul so frequently?

[MENTION=1444]Azmal[/MENTION] stated it is because the Pakistani army generals are very worried about the prospect of Afghan intelligence unleashing militancy against the Pakistani military.


Any thoughts on this?

[MENTION=1201]Toramana[/MENTION] [MENTION=1068]gadoonwal[/MENTION] [MENTION=1234]Smarty[/MENTION] [MENTION=5723]Kushan Prince[/MENTION] [MENTION=17582]Al-Afghani[/MENTION]

[Smarty]

Post by @Azmal



In another thread started by @Kushan Prince, Azmal stated that Raheel Sharif the current Pakistan army chief has gone to Afghanistan 5 times in 4 months, which is basically a visit every month (more actually).

Now before Azmal wrote that I myself never thought too much of it.

Sharif is the de facto ruler of Pakistan and there have been jokes that he has been acting as a de facto foreign minister with extensive visits to many countries in the past few months.

However we also need to bear in mind the following.

- Not only does the Pakistan army rule Pakistan, it is perhaps the biggest organization in the country and the biggest employer.

Purely in employment terms it creates jobs for hundreds and thousands of Pakistanis (mainly Punjabis and Pashtuns of the Peshawar Valley e.g. Pekhawar, Kohat, Mardan etc).




Raheel Sharif, current Pakistan army chief and de facto ruler of Pakistan.

- Raheel Sharif is obviously in his own eyes and the eyes of his people who revere him and his army not just a VIP but a VVIP, so why is this VVIP constantly visiting Kabul?

Kabul is the capital of Afghanistan, a country which Pakistani nationalists view as of secondary importance, an "inferior" state which should align itself with the more powerful Pakistan (in their eyes).

For some Pakistani nationalists whose goal is to make Afghanistan the de facto "5th province of Pakistan", Kabul would/should be in real terms as important as Quetta (capital of Balochistan).

No one would imagine Raheel Sharif going to Quetta 5 times in 4 months, so why is this man, essentially a dictator, visiting Kabul so frequently?

@Azmal stated it is because the Pakistani army generals are very worried about the prospect of Afghan intelligence unleashing militancy against the Pakistani military.


Any thoughts on this?

@Toramana @gadoonwal @Smarty @Kushan Prince @Al-Afghani

God knows what Raheel is discussing with Ghani, i noticed his frequent tours after APS attack and immediately after that, Afghan refugees in every corner of the Pakistan , started getting harassed.......Raheel must have been trying to put pressure on Ghani to accept some demands, i supect even use of threats......and those threats would be ,i guess, unleashing of yet more terror attacks in Afghanistan through haqqani network. The carrot given to Ghani would be assurance that haqqani network would be dismantled if Afghanistan cooperates with Pakistan and stop friendship with India.

[Bengal_Tiger]

God knows what Raheel is discussing with Ghani, i noticed his frequent tours after APS attack and immediately after that, Afghan refugees in every corner of the Pakistan , started getting harassed.......Raheel must have been trying to put pressure on Ghani to accept some demands, i supect even use of threats......and those threats would be ,i guess, unleashing of yet more terror attacks in Afghanistan through haqqani network. The carrot given to Ghani would be assurance that haqqani network would be dismantled if Afghanistan cooperates with Pakistan and stop friendship with India.

- The hysteria in Pakistan (Punjabistan) after the Pekhawar massacre was immense. Pakistani nationalists in defence.pk (where many are ex-military personnel or related to important military personnel) and elsewhere online were eager for blood. Pakistani nationalists online often talk about nuking Waziristan and parts of Afghanistan to "teach" Afghans/tribal Pashtuns a lesson.

You might be right perhaps Sharif did threaten the Afghans.

Remember the Pakistan army has committed genocide in the past (before it had the nuclear bomb) in east Pakistan with mass slaughter and rape camps for Muslim Bengali women, so there is no limit to what these monsters will do. They would repeat 1971 again if they could, the fact that they have made 3 million Pashtuns homeless living as beggars and refugees is just one example.

They would use tactical nuclear weapons against Muslims if they were angry enough as they went on a horrific rampage of blood in east Pakistan.

However if he is threatening the Afghans, why does he have to visit Kabul every month?

If he was a mafia godfather type figure threatening the "powerless" and "weak" Afghans then logically all he would have to do is visit once, or send an underling to issue his threats to terrify the Afghans in to line.

However the fact that he has to leave his beloved Islamabad/Rawalpindi regularly and fly to Kabul might indicate that the relationship between Kabul and Rawalpindi (Pakistan army HQ) is not so imbalanced, that it is more of an equal relationship so Sharif has to be there to negotiate some sort of deal.

Afghans have these three nuclear powers either supporting them or monitoring the situation:

- India
- Russia
- China

So Pakistan has to be careful how it deals with Kabul.

The Chinese are involved in Afghanistan now and are in no mood to accept any form of "Islamist" radicalism that will target them. The Chinese are very smart and will not accept this from the Pakistanis.

The Pakistanis cannot annoy the Chinese who are planning to spend $40 billion in investment in Pakistan.

The key question for me is [MENTION=1444]Azmal[/MENTION] 's statement that the Afghans have a "militancy card" to use against the Pakistani army, which has in fact scared them.



- After using "Islamist" militants in Kashmir to destabilize India.

- After using pro-Pakistan "Islamist" radicals (Jamaat e Islami) in Bangladesh to destabilize Bangladesh.

- After using the "Islamist" Taliban to ruin Afghanistan.

It would be very ironic if now at least one government is threatening to use "Islamist" militants against Pakistan.






* * *

P.S. Btw, I don't think Ghani is rushing to Islamabad every month to visit the Pakistani leadership like how a vassal would rush to his lord, rather it is Raheel Sharif running to Kabul every few weeks.

Something is going on.

[Bengal_Tiger]

... The carrot given to Ghani would be assurance that haqqani network would be dismantled if Afghanistan cooperates with Pakistan and stop friendship with India.

The Punjabi generals of Rawalpindi are obsessed with India and anti-Hindu hatred, rather than making the lives of ordinary Pakistanis better including the 41 million Pakistanis without proper toilets or the 2 million Pakistanis who are slaves.

Even if Afghanistan goes away from India, big deal. Under the Taliban, Afghanistan was controlled by Pakistani proxies and nothing happened. Pakistan will never be able to conquer Kashmir due to India being a nuclear giant.

Afghanistan can distance themselves from India and then later go back closer to it when they want to. India will never reject the Afghans, business is business.

What Karzai and Ghani might be doing is "good cop/bad cop" with Ghani giving the Pakistanis what they want (for now), snubbing the Indians and then getting Karzai to openly "put pressure" on Ghani for doing this.

In other words the Pakistanis have to quickly show Afghans the benefits of being conciliatory with the Pakistanis and being a bit colder with India.

So if Pakistan doesn't produce quick results, then Ghani can "succumb" to "pressure" from fellow countrymen such as Karzai and abandon this whole policy and just resume normal relations between India and Afghanistan which are quite good.

In other words this might be choreographed drama by Ghani and Karzai (who meet regularly).

I hope what I've said makes sense to those reading, if not please ask.

What do others think?

[MENTION=8995]DSM0305[/MENTION]

[Khostai]

The Punjabi generals of Rawalpindi are obsessed with India and anti-Hindu hatred, rather than making the lives of ordinary Pakistanis better including the 41 million Pakistanis without proper toilets or the 2 million Pakistanis who are slaves.

Even if Afghanistan goes away from India, big deal. Under the Taliban, Afghanistan was controlled by Pakistani proxies and nothing happened. Pakistan will never be able to conquer Kashmir due to India being a nuclear giant.

Afghanistan can distance themselves from India and then later go back closer to it when they want to. India will never reject the Afghans, business is business.

What Karzai and Ghani might be doing is "good cop/bad cop" with Ghani giving the Pakistanis what they want (for now), snubbing the Indians and then getting Karzai to openly "put pressure" on Ghani for doing this.

In other words the Pakistanis have to quickly show Afghans the benefits of being conciliatory with the Pakistanis and being a bit colder with India.

So if Pakistan doesn't produce quick results, then Ghani can "succumb" to "pressure" from fellow countrymen such as Karzai and abandon this whole policy and just resume normal relations between India and Afghanistan which are quite good.

In other words this might be choreographed drama by Ghani and Karzai (who meet regularly).

I hope what I've said makes sense to those reading, if not please ask.

What do others think?

[MENTION=8995]DSM0305[/MENTION]

Why are you so interested so much in Afghan affairs? What does it botther you what Afghanistan is doing and what not.

[DSM0305]

Why are you so interested so much in Afghan affairs? What does it botther you what Afghanistan is doing and what not.

Because he is well educated. Most well educated people tend to seek knowledge about world affairs. Take Ukraine conflict or Iraq/Syria conflict as an example. People across the world seek news about it.

I myself read news/books about conflicts/politics across the world, and debate about them whenever I get the chance.

One should never put a limit to his knowledge.

[DSM0305]

The Punjabi generals of Rawalpindi are obsessed with India and anti-Hindu hatred, rather than making the lives of ordinary Pakistanis better including the 41 million Pakistanis without proper toilets or the 2 million Pakistanis who are slaves.

Even if Afghanistan goes away from India, big deal. Under the Taliban, Afghanistan was controlled by Pakistani proxies and nothing happened. Pakistan will never be able to conquer Kashmir due to India being a nuclear giant.

Afghanistan can distance themselves from India and then later go back closer to it when they want to. India will never reject the Afghans, business is business.

What Karzai and Ghani might be doing is "good cop/bad cop" with Ghani giving the Pakistanis what they want (for now), snubbing the Indians and then getting Karzai to openly "put pressure" on Ghani for doing this.

In other words the Pakistanis have to quickly show Afghans the benefits of being conciliatory with the Pakistanis and being a bit colder with India.

So if Pakistan doesn't produce quick results, then Ghani can "succumb" to "pressure" from fellow countrymen such as Karzai and abandon this whole policy and just resume normal relations between India and Afghanistan which are quite good.

In other words this might be choreographed drama by Ghani and Karzai (who meet regularly).

I hope what I've said makes sense to those reading, if not please ask.

What do others think?

@DSM0305

At this early stage of presidency/new policy, it is hard to say what the thoughts behind them are. But one think is for sure, one need to try the friendliness policy, before one can give what I call ''final solution''.

One thing is for sure. Its all ind. Either we become best friend with Pakistan or worst enemy, depending on Pakistan's choice. At this point there is no middle ground.

[asad71]

Afghan-Pakhtuns are a ruler class. Warriors and natural leaders of men.It is a matter of time when they will descend upon the Indus valley as they have done throughout history. We don't know,at this stage the process or modality - whether peaceful or violent. It is inevitable.And then this hurricane from the Hindukush will burst upon the plains of Hindustan.

[Yousufzai]

Afghan-Pakhtuns are a ruler class. Warriors and natural leaders of men.It is a matter of time when they will descend upon the Indus valley as they have done throughout history. We don't know,at this stage the process or modality - whether peaceful or violent. It is inevitable.And then this hurricane from the Hindukush will burst upon the plains of Hindustan.

I know you mean well, but instead of focusing on our history, I think we should work towards an actual future. We all love talking about Khushal Baba and Bacha Khan, but we don't realize that right now, we are probably one of the most messed up people in the world. Our entire society has been destroyed, both by outsiders and by ourselves. So try to make Afghanistan and Pakhtunkhwa a better place, instead of thinking about the past and dreaming about conquering the Punjabis or Tajiks or whatever.

[Toramana]

I agree with most of what you have said above. In my opinion, the Paki establishment has recognized that they can no longer play the old game and that any of its adventurism will be responded to in kind.

It may also be seeing the expanding destabilization in the Middle East, which is pretty unnerving. And there are by the way many more destabilizing factors(ethnic, sectarian, tribal, communal) in the "peripheral" "GREATER MIDDLE EAST" (a geopolitical term you may be familiar with) than the Middle East proper.

The frequent visits by the Punjabi general may more be the sign of urgency on the part of Pakistan than mere intimidation of Ghani. One should also keep in mind that the visits may also be driven by the desperation to consolidate the newly-established diplomatic and political foothold in the Afghanistan under Ghani administration.

But in all this, don't forget that there is one interests that overrides the interest of all others and that is the interest of foreign powers. The developments that we see are taking place withing the broader framework that, that foreign interest which wants to have the 21st century to itself has imposed.

Also notice when Karzai said "centuries" of struggle against British. That pointed to the larger reality or problem behind what is apparent to us.

[Toramana]

Afghan-Pakhtuns are a ruler class. Warriors and natural leaders of men.It is a matter of time when they will descend upon the Indus valley as they have done throughout history. We don't know,at this stage the process or modality - whether peaceful or violent. It is inevitable.And then this hurricane from the Hindukush will burst upon the plains of Hindustan.

Asad, I second what Yousafzai has said above. here is no more time or national energy or resources for adventurism. We should be self-focused and try to recover centuries of loss by modernizing our societies and settling our conflicts politically (between Tajaks, Pashtuns, Punjabis, Bengla Deshis, Indians, etc.). I am also against this India enmity thing. They are just like us and the stronger and prosperous this region becomes the more there are chances for us to free ourselves of the yolk of neocolonialism.

Freedom and sovereignty is not just physical; it is also economic.

[Khostai]

Because he is well educated. Most well educated people tend to seek knowledge about world affairs. Take Ukraine conflict or Iraq/Syria conflict as an example. People across the world seek news about it.

I myself read news/books about conflicts/politics across the world, and debate about them whenever I get the chance.

One should never put a limit to his knowledge.

Well making a whole new tread just about a comment on a subject is quite strange. He really looks obssesd to me.

[Admin Khan]

I like the quality of this thread.

In my opinion, it appears that Ghani has realized that Afghanistan can't continue to butt-heads with Pakistan, and they are as of now in the process of negotiating an agreement that would prevent both nations from supporting terrorists. To be clear, Afghanistan has massive soft-power, which is evident from the amount of attacks in Pakistan.

The usual trend is, an attack in Afghanistan, and then weeks later, a more devastating(if not on par)attack in Pakistan. Amrullah Saleh played a major role in the rise of softpower.

[Yousufzai]

To be clear, Afghanistan has massive soft-power, which is evident from the amount of attacks in Pakistan.

The usual trend is, an attack in Afghanistan, and then weeks later, a more devastating(if not on par)attack in Pakistan. Amrullah Saleh played a major role in the rise of softpower.

Then that would mean the crazy Pakistani conspiracy theorists were right all along...

[Azmal]

I agree with most of what you have said above. In my opinion, the Paki establishment has recognized that they can no longer play the old game and that any of its adventurism will be responded to in kind.

It may also be seeing the expanding destabilization in the Middle East, which is pretty unnerving. And there are by the way many more destabilizing factors(ethnic, sectarian, tribal, communal) in the "peripheral" "GREATER MIDDLE EAST" (a geopolitical term you may be familiar with) than the Middle East proper.

The frequent visits by the Punjabi general may more be the sign of urgency on the part of Pakistan than mere intimidation of Ghani. One should also keep in mind that the visits may also be driven by the desperation to consolidate the newly-established diplomatic and political foothold in the Afghanistan under Ghani administration.

But in all this, don't forget that there is one interests that overrides the interest of all others and that is the interest of foreign powers. The developments that we see are taking place withing the broader framework that, that foreign interest which wants to have the 21st century to itself has imposed.

Also notice when Karzai said "centuries" of struggle against British. That pointed to the larger reality or problem behind what is apparent to us.

Reminds me of what my late grandfather used to say---"its not daalkhor of Punjab but Angreez."