Taliban more like gangsters than leaders, UN report states

[khushal]

Globalresearch.ca is a well known conspiracy theory website.

That is an ad hominem fallacy. They cite UN reports. Did you not read anything in the article.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/9211302854?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creativeASIN=9211302854&linkCode=xm2&tag=antiwarbookstore

[khushal]

shady conspiracy websites are not legitimate sourcess. My dear peanut.

ad hominem fallacy.

They cite UN reports. You and the Tajik idiot who said the same thing are equally stupid.

[Khostai]

ad hominem fallacy.

They cite UN reports. You and the Tajik idiot who said the same thing are equally stupid.

a peanut will always be a peanut, but still all th sourcess and the bull**** you sead each day is totaly useless.

[Badlun]

khushal
I enjoy discussion with you. I appreciate your thought provoking ideas. I wish all Pashtun gather here and discuss problems with solutions for Pashto, Pashtun and Pashtunwali.

Your argument is the conservative Pashtun society let Mullah work. He is product of the environment and he is not producer of the congeal environment for him. If I agree with this argument then if you are not for status quo, then let us try to change this conservative society and make it modern and educated as wll as flexible and progressive. Societies do change and today's Europe or America were not the same few decades or centuries before.

But in the core of my heart I believe that Mullah changed Pashtun society. Tribalism was always there but Hujra and Jumat were always sepaarte. Mullah was a weak character in Pashtun society with no mundane or real role. My father and others sued to give Mullah few kilos of grains each year to a Mullah for his duty as religious performer of acts. Mullah had no role in Hujra.

This is because of some stupid policies of USA and others like Saudi who made Mullah this much powerful after the cold war and post Cold war era.

[Al-Afghani]

That is an ad hominem fallacy. They cite UN reports. Did you not read anything in the article.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/921...tiwarbookstore

Ad hominem is also calling people idiots.

I know you are frustrated because your precious Taliban have been exposed as ordinary thugs, and not divine fighters waging Jihad to liberate Afghanistan. They are making the lives of Afghans miserable, while you sit in the west and defend them.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Ad hominem is also calling people idiots.

I know you are frustrated because your precious Taliban have been exposed as ordinary thugs, and not divine fighters waging Jihad to liberate Afghanistan. They are making the lives of Afghans miserable, while you sit in the west and defend them.

Many of the biggest defenders of the Taliban and other so-called "Islamists" are people raised in the west or living comfortably in it.

They enjoy the political stability and tolerance of the west as well as the economic comfort it has, but support groups that hate and vilify the west but would never wish to live under their rule.

The Taliban

- The Taliban are weakening and the AAF (Afghan Air Force) is waiting for deliveries of anti-insurgency aircraft to deal with them.

Even if they cannot be defeated as long as they are contained and unable to hinder the progress of the main urban areas and elsewhere that is in itself a major accomplishment.

[Toramana]

Many of the biggest defenders of the Taliban and other so-called "Islamists" are people raised in the west or living comfortably in it.

They enjoy the political stability and tolerance of the west as well as the economic comfort it has, but support groups that hate and vilify the west but would never wish to live under their rule.

The Taliban

- The Taliban are weakening and the AAF (Afghan Air Force) is waiting for deliveries of anti-insurgency aircraft to deal with them.

Even if they cannot be defeated as long as they are contained and unable to hinder the progress of the main urban areas and elsewhere that is in itself a major accomplishment.

Taleban are ignorant lunatics that should be eliminated at all costs.

[Bengal_Tiger]

The question is how to defeat them?

Also if they can't be defeated totally, how can they be contained?

I don't think the relatively weak Afghan military can defeat them totally, unless they make them accept some sort of peace deal.

I don't think that is possible completely as the more extreme factions of the Taliban (or other "Islamists" e.g. ISIS) will probably not accept.

If Turkey with the biggest army in Europe could not defeat the PKK, or the well-armed Syrian army which was designed to defeat nuclear power Israel cannot defeat rebels in its country then what chance does the far weaker ANA have against the Taliban in terms of totally eradicating them.

I don't think the ANA can totally crush them but it can contain them and make them an irrelevance, confined to certain remote rural areas.

[Kushan Prince]

So America is losing to a "gang" with Ak's. How sad!

[Kushan Prince]

I am sure in Hilmand Taliban can use such practices to grab money but how come in Badakhshan which is a Tajik area? Tajiks are wise people and they will never let Taliban to dominate their area and resources.

I wish we could have a realistic survey done by Afghan experts to gauge the real influence of Taliban in Afghanistan. Where they control and what they control. I see all provincial capitals are under government control but some pockets may be controlled by these hooligans.

That's wishful thinking. Tajik areas are polluted with the NA, bacha bazi, and kidnapping. You think they don't have warlords either? Think harder man.

[Badlun]

That's wishful thinking. Tajik areas are polluted with the NA, bacha bazi, and kidnapping. You think they don't have warlords either? Think harder man.

They may have everything but NOT Taliban!

[Badlun]

So America is losing to a "gang" with Ak's. How sad!

America is not losing, Pashtuns are losing. Taliban is now identity of Pashtuns. Americans are enjoying their status as the sole superpower of the world.

[DSM0305]

Tribal does not mean primitive, its how a society is structured, how each person looks onto another in the society he/she lives in and how power and wealth is distributed. Pashtuns are the largest segmentary lineage ethnic group in the world which is another way of saying tribal society:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmentary_lineage

You're basically arguing with yourself. At first you say that Pashtuns don't have the luxury of being ''rallied'' due to their tribal structure. Now you're linking a wikipedia link of segmentary linage. In no point of your comment did you answer, or made a comment related to what I said.

Now I don't know if you can Pashto, but segmentary lineage is basically what we call ''qaum'' in pashto. And by no means have anything to do with distribution of power and wealth.

Now back to the topic. What I said, is that you compare the Pashtun tribal society to that of native americans, which by no mean is the case.

I said, even the remote Pashtuns have extreme knowledge of politics. If they see someone worth supporting, they will. They will even support someone that they think will be better choice than the other. Let me give you an example: If they don't have any choice, but to support either A or B, even if both of them are a bad choice , they will support the one who will benefit them the most.

Pashtuns are by far the most political engaged ethnicity in Afghanistan. Don't let their ''Tribal'' society fool you to think of them as primitive. They didn't rule Afghanistan for centuries because it was god given to them, they ruled it because they know their politics, no matter how uneducated they may be.

So to answer your original comment. Pashtuns are by no mean second to Tajiks in ''rallying'' for a cause.

Well, the Mullah on says what the people want to hear, he only survives in the conservative atmosphere that he lives in just like an american politician can no longer be against same sex marriage because the political atmosphere in america no longer allows it. If a mullah in an Afghan village says to the people, OK lets have women wear skirts from now on. What do you think will happen to him. He has no control, he just works within the atmosphere of the peoples mindset. The people are conservative so therefore the mullah is also.

A Mullah is a religious figure, that works within religious framework. There is no more or less to it. All you're doing is what they call in English ''Straw man fallacy''. There is simply no reason for distorting the opponents argument, that may work in real life talking, because one cannot go back and rewind what have been said, but in a forum, everything is viewable.

Here is your original text, and what we were discussing:

While Tajik Nationalist leaders can rally their people behind what ver agenda they want since their society has feudal structures. Pashtun nationalist leaders don't have that same luxury. The vast majority of Pashtuns in Afghanistan are living in tribal structures and they can not be rallied under such a platform. Pashtuns nationalists leaders are weak because they can not rally their people. The unifying factor for Pashtuns in Afghanistan is their faith which is why the Mullah can easily rally them. People like you and DSM have no forethought or vision. Anyone with any competence would easily see that you will lose which s why you hate the Mullah because they can do what you can not, they are working with what is there while you are working with what you think should be there. You live in fantasyland.

Now tell me. How is your current comment remotely related to what you said before, or even more importantly what I said(since that is the reason we have an ''argument'' apparently).

I have answered your other points on my response to Badlun above.

What you wrote to badlun, you can argue with him. I am more of a informant type a person, not the arguing type. So unless something is directed toward me, I have no reason to mingle.

[DSM0305]

They may have everything but NOT Taliban!

That isn't true. They may not call themselves Taliban, but they have groups similar to them. The only difference is that the Taliban is halting a bit more toward Pashtuns, while their version is halting more toward Tajiks. Yet, the bottom line is that they have their own version of the same ideology.

[DSM0305]

So America is losing to a "gang" with Ak's. How sad!

I have to agree with Badlun in this one. The Americans will not lose anything, nor did they lose anything in the last 10 years.

If we look at it statistically, the Americans lost around 2 thousand personal there. While most casualties in Afghanistan were Pashtuns(which is more than 40 thousands, and if we dig deeper around the statistics, it can easily reach over 100 thousands).

Whether Taliban dig and put a mine in the road or suicide, the casualties are mostly civilian in Pashtun areas. Basically the disturbance Taliban causes, it only effects the civilian Pashtun population, both economically and politically.

It isn't for fun that Pashtuns have gone from the most educated ethnicity in Afghanistan, to the very least. From the wealthiest, to the poorest.

This is also the reason why I hate people who support the Taliban, when they themselves live in the west. I don't care if someone supports them, if they're in Afghanistan(assuming if there is any nowadays).

The bottom line is, that it is the Pashtuns who are suffering from the insurgency, not Americans or other ethnicities in Afghanistan.