Iranians or Arabs? Whom would you go with?

[Loy Afghanistan]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...stian-man.html

Checkmate.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH!!!

You call these freaks white? They have a mutation in their genes. Love you bro, you're so funny!

[Khostai]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...stian-man.html

Checkmate.

-_-

[pashtanajan]

Many of our enemies can say the same thing about us. A people with no culture or literature who emerged from the hindu kush mountains bringing tribalism down with them. Come on Badlun, cut the crap, you sound no different from the Iranians who blame Arabs for their short comings and their conversion to Islam. What has an Arab done to you anyways? Every Pashtun i have met speaks well of Arabs and we see them as brothers in Islam unlike many Persians who chose to abandon Islam.

Can you tell me why most Pashtuns from both Afghanistan and Pakistan chose to migrate the gulf regions instead of Iran or any other middle eastern nation? When was the last time a gulf arab hanged, beat or spoke ill of Pashtuns? Iran is dangerous for Pashtuns and other afghans, its a toltorian nation that abuses human rights not only of immigrants but its own people.

I see Iran no different from North Korea.

It's not that Iran hates Pashtuns or Afghans. Most Iranians don't even know what Pashto or Pashtun is. In fact many Iranians that live in Iran whom I have connected with over the internet are amazed that I'm Afghan because they think I should look Asian. Most Iranians only know poor Hazaras who have been a burden on their system. Iran wants to progress rapidly and no longer wants to be considered a poor country.

Point being, Iranians hate poor people who are a burden on their system. Poor Afghans who are refugees haven't contributed anything to their country so they don't want them there. My aunt lives in Tehran with her husband and kids. They moved there in the 70s though, and they have Iranian citizenship because they have money. It's just the way the world works. People don't like poor people. It's why Americans hate poor Mexicans but they like rich South Americans who bring money into the country. Iran has given citizenship to Afghans who had moved there a long time ago because the first wave of Afghan immigrants consisted of rich and wealthy Afghans who were escaping the communists. The other waves consisted of poorer Afghans, and these Afghans haven't been given citizenship and they are treated horribly.

It's all about the money. Likewise with Gulf regions, most Afghans there are rich Afghans. These Afghans are related to warlords, people in the government, people with high positions, and important Afghan families. However, many Pashtuns from Pakistan who went to the Gulf regions are treated like slaves because they have nothing to bring into the Gulf region. They have no connections, they don't have a lot of money, so they're not considered useful.

[Toramana]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/caught-between-history-and-modernity-the-persian-paradox-a-1027050.html

The Persian Paradox: Iran Is Much More Modern Than You Think



Which government cabinet is home to more ministers with doctorates from American universities than Barack Obama's administration? The correct answer is that of of the Islamic Republic of Iran. And, no, that list does not include President Hassan Rouhani. He got his doctorate at the University of Glasgow law school.

There are few countries in the world that are subjected to as much Western prejudice and misunderstanding as Iran. I have known the country since the era of the shahs and I have visited it more than a dozen times in the past four decades, including a recent visit.
I can remember sitting in a tea house in Shiraz at the grave of the great poet Hafez, who was greatly admired by Goethe, between comfortable pillows and smoking a water pipe, and jotting notes on how disastrously the shah had misjudged the people's mood and how brutal his secret service, the Savak, was. And I recall how the masses greeted Ayatollah Khomenei as their savior when he returned from exile in 1979 and how they celebrated the Islamic Revolution. But I also observed how quickly those illusions were destroyed with the rise of a new and even bloodier dictatorship in the name of a theocracy waging battle against the "great Satan" (the United States) and the "little Satan" (Israel). I observed just how mercilessly the insurgency brought on in 2009 by the children of the revolution was stamped out. I recall how reckless former President Ahmadinejad was in his denial of the Holocaust. Then, in 2013, I watched as moderate President Rouhani got elected, increasing the possibility of rapprochement with the West.

Pro-West Sentiment

The Iran of today has changed dramatically. In more liberal cities like Shiraz and Isfahan, young entrepreneurs have opened small cafés and Bob Dylan's "The Times They Are a-Changin," has become the favorite song. Young students hold hands in public and women pull their obligatory headscarves back to the point where their hair is visible (a forbidden act). Tourists are welcomed all over the place and are treated with overt hospitality.

With the exception of Israel, there is unlikely any other country in the Middle East where pro-Western sentiment is as pronounced as it is in Iran. Millions of young people attend university. And even though women are still discriminated against -- laws limit their right to divorce and custody of their children and also stipulate that they can be subject to prosecution starting at the age of nine as opposed to 15 for boys -- they live more freely here than in many other countries in the region. With the help of quick-to-install illegal satellite dishes that can be found everywhere, they also have access to Western news programs.

Only a few hundred kilometers west of here, fanatical Islamists have erected a caliphate in Iraq and Syria. In Iran, however, the role of religion is in decline. People here consider the mullahs to be corrupt and they are the objects of contempt. Friends tell me to avoid standing next to a cleric wearing a turban and robe when hailing a taxi. The drivers, they say, won't stop. And while the many mosques may be empty, the country's consumer cathedrals, its new shopping centers, are packed. Group-think today is scorned and individualism is in vogue.

The disillusionment, of course, isn't new. Already back in 2003, Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, a former comrade-in-arms of Khomenei's who would later be placed under house arrest as a member of the opposition, openly admitted this failure during a meeting we had in Qom. "We have lost the world's respect through our excesses -- and my dreams are dead," he said. "The religious leader should limit his role to representative duties -- and that is what will happen."

But Montazeri was mistaken. There is no recognizable trend in Iran suggesting a move toward a constitutional monarchy let alone a Westminster democracy. Even today, Iran's system of government, with Ali Khamenei in the highest position as a higher authority than the president and parliament, doesn't appear to be seriously threatened. Following the crushing of the protests almost six years ago, few people continue to believe that politics can be changed through demonstrations. Instead, they take advantage of the small amount of freedom they are given in public parks and galleries. Inside their own homes, though, they party exuberantly in a parallel private life.

More Madrid than Havana

The cities suffer under constant traffic jams and, at least at first glance, it doesn't look like people are living in want. Despite the sanctions, the standard of living and shopping opportunities are more comparable to Madrid than Havana. A remarkable number of new shopping centers are currently under construction, with names like Palladium or Mega Mall, and you can see Porsches parked out in front. The upper class doesn't appear to be suffering much under the economic bottlenecks.

Many in the West have a monolithic image of Iran, but that is not the reality. Iran is a country with diverse centers of power that view each other suspiciously. The elected government often doesn't even know what the Pasdaran, the powerful paramilitary organization, is actually doing. And the Revolutionary Guard, which theocracy founder Khomenei once built up for his own protection, is today better armed than the army itself and has become something of a state within a state.

The Revolutionary Guard also finances many of the new shopping centers, and its economic power has become just as big a problem for the moderate president as its military prowess. The Revolutionary Guard symbolizes the other, more threatening Iran. It controls exports as well as the country's nuclear program. Using the Basij militia, which the Revolutionary Guard deploys as its unofficial police force, it goes after demonstrators. And it doesn't shy away from terrorist acts abroad with its Quds Force. It is often hostile towards Rouhani, who sometimes retaliates. Recently, for example, he threatened to give the people their own voice in the form of a referendum -- a provocation against the Revolutionary Guard, but also an affront to the religious leader.

In contrast to the highly networked Pasdaran, "normal" Iranians have been hit by the country's economic decline. During 2012 and 2013, gross domestic product shrank considerably, the national currency, the rial, fell significantly in value against the dollar and inflation is high. In the longer term, the country, which is reliant on oil exports, is threatened with deep cuts to its social system. In order to cover the government's budgetary needs, the price per barrel of oil would have to be $130, but in recent months it hasn't even been half that.

Growing Disatisfaction

Furthermore, Iranians are also outraged by the numerous death sentences meted out and they suffer from the restrictions placed on press freedom and culture. It's especially painful to them when a movie like "Taxi," by Tehran director Jafar Panahi, can take the top prize at the Berlin International Film Festival but cannot be shown in their own cinemas. People are dissatisfied with their political leaders, which has made many grow cynical. So far they have excluded the president they elected from the worst criticism, but he will need to deliver soon and improve their standard of living.

More than anything, Rohani needs a final nuclear deal. Iranian industry is eager for sanctions to end so it can once again begin moving forward and Western partners are also eager to enter the Iranian market. In many cases, preliminary contracts for joint ventures in automobile manufacturing and even in the exploration of new oil and gas fields are already sitting in drawers, just waiting for signatures.

But there is one thing that connects all Iranians, regardless of their political leanings: pride in their own culture and fear the country will be humiliated. Iranian school children are taught that Persian history is at the very least on par with that of Rome or Athens -- and that its civilization was far ahead of that of Iran's Arab neighbors. Alexander the Great, viewed as a legendary conqueror in the West, is scorned as a criminal here because he destroyed cultural assets. At the same time, people like to point out that it was obvious that the world conqueror would settle down in Persia and marry one of its beautiful women as he did. It's a perfect example of what author Hooman Majd calls "our superiority complex."

It's an element of the Persian paradox that this feeling goes hand in hand with a sense of deep uncertainty. I have been repeatedly confronted during my visits to Iran with the complaint that the West doesn't care anything about Iranian history and culture. With this ignorance, they complain, people are treating Iran like a third-class state and aren't even granting the country its rights under international law. The political class in Tehran has successfully tied this general conviction to a very specific problem -- the issue of Iran as a nuclear power. Throughout, politicians have acted as though much of the world were conspiring against Iran -- as though the conflict were about Iran's "dignity" rather than about a justified suspicion that the country is building a nuclear bomb.

Almost every Iranian politician, including former presidential candidates Mir Hossein Mousavi and Mahdi Karroubi, who are still being held under house arrest, stress the country's entitlement to conduct scientific research into nuclear energy. In their opinion, that also includes the right to enrich uranium. It's a view also shared by the majority of the population. In contrast to Israel, they argue, Iran has signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. And Iranian interview partners often point out that the Jewish state has over a hundred deployable nuclear weapons at its disposal. Western experts place that figure at 80.

A 'Great Civilization'

US President Barack Obama has sought to accommodate Tehran and its sensitivities. He admitted that CIA participation in the 1953 putsch against liberal Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh had been a historical mistake. He also congratulated Iran on its new year holiday, Nowrus, calling the country a "great civilization," and he has written several personal letters to Supreme Leader Khamenei.

Despite all their differences, it appears that Secretary of State John Kerry is more comfortable negotiating with his smooth Iranian counterpart Mohammad Javad Zarif, who studied international law in Denver, than with his coarser Israeli counterpart Avigdor Lieberman. And US Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz, the former head of the physics faculty at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, seems to get along very well with Ali Akbar Salehi, the No. 2 man in the Iran delegation. It's no wonder, either, given that Salehi himself graduated from MIT.
If the nuclear negotiations do ultimately fail, Tehran will decry it as a humiliation. It will follow up by eliminating any restrictions and placing all of its energy into its effort to build a nuclear bomb. It will use national pride as the argument to oblige its people to persevere through difficult times.

In an interview with SPIEGEL in 2012, Salehi -- the former foreign minister, who is now the head of Iran's nuclear program -- had the following to say. "For over 30 years now, we have been living with boycott measures that ultimately make us independent and strong," he said. "Iranian society is used to living with hardships -- perhaps more so than people in Spain and Greece. We can count on the patience of our people. What about you in Europe?"

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/caught-between-history-and-modernity-the-persian-paradox-a-1027050.html

[Toramana]

Although, one can see the narcissistic touch that characterize many in Europe who believe that the only good people on the earth are those that follow or imitate Europe, there are many things in the article above that are correct.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Interesting article, a couple of points.


1. Most western journalists have a distorted view of Iran attaching disproportionate attention to the secular urban middle class as if they were the majority in Iran, they're not.


2. I spoke to an Iranian Sunni a few years ago and he told me that some Iranians are very pro-revolution (Shia theocracy), some are neutral/indifferent/apolitical and some are anti.

However together the first two outweight the anti-regime group.

If one were to go by the internet and the disproportionately high number of Iranians from the secular middle class or even the secularist exile communities in LA or elsewhere one would think they were the overwhelming majority.

There is more to Iran than this urban elite.

Iran is Qazvin (centre of jokes), Tabriz, Kirman, Mashad, the rural areas too.


3. As for the question Iran or Arabs who would you go with?

From my opinion of Bangladesh we have far more culturally in common with Arabs than with somewhat cold,arrogant and racist Iranians.

If there was a Saudi v Iran war, aside from those Bangladeshis who remained neutral (maybe the majority), 90% of those who took a definite side would support Saudi whilst no one would really support Iran except for Jamaatis, who have a pro-Iran, pro-Khomenei outlook.

However that's just my personal opinion, [MENTION=3580]asad71[/MENTION] might have an alternative opinion.


Plus Arabs are from Kuwait to Morocco covering the Arabian gulf, Mesopotamia, Arabian peninsula, Levant, Egypt, North Africa etc, over 20 countries and far more numerous than Iranians.

I personally think Bangladesh should keep its distance from Khomeneist Iran, a post-Khomeneist Iran maybe we should be a bit more relaxed but ultimately be aware that as horrible as it might seem of me, they are in essence not very nice people in general i.e. Iranians. Just keep it to business only and nothing more.

[asad71]

1. During the Iraq-Iran War Gen Zia, on his own initiative, had travelled to both nations several times to try and end the fratricide. Yasser Arafat and Sekou Toure had assisted him. Obviously this was not appreciated by the Satan who had prompted this war. His efforts remained unfulfilled till he was assassinated in 1981.
2. Our late Hafezji Huzur was invited by Ayatullah Ruhulla Khomeini to visit Iran. At prayer time Khomeini pushed the Huzur forward to lead the prayers. To the surprised Huzur Khomeini explained that he had read many of his research works and finds him a scholar behind whom he would be honored to say his prayers.
3. In Iraq-Syria, the Satan has carefully and cunningly converted a civil war into a Shia-Sunni conflict. There the Satan supports Iran covertly but the agents of Satan supports the other side. In Yemen Satan is pushing to convert a tribal/civil war into a Shia-Sunni war. And here Satan and its agents are pitted against Iran.
4. In short Satan is sponsoring fratricide among Muslims to exploit our natural resources and to sell us arms. Modern Iran has forgotten and deviated from the Great Khomeini's teachings. The "revolution" that the Satan used to say he was exporting was nothing more than a simple message of unity between Shias and Sunnis. That would be a frightful prospect for the Satan.

[tripledouble]

Most Iranians only know poor Hazaras who have been a burden on their system.

and when pakistanis feel sameway about afghan refugees you guys then complain of mistreatment, wow....

Iran wants to progress rapidly and no longer wants to be considered a poor country.

What poor nation wants to stay poor?everyone wants to get better,richer etc

Point being, Iranians hate poor people who are a burden on their system.

and who doesn't?The whole world is like Edhi or Theresa....

Poor Afghans who are refugees haven't contributed anything to their country so they don't want them there.

This is same complaint pakistanis have refugees, but on this forum afghan nationalists call it racism etc etc

My aunt lives in Tehran with her husband and kids. They moved there in the

It's all about the money. Likewise with Gulf regions, most Afghans there are rich Afghans. These Afghans are related to warlords, people in the government, people with high positions, and important Afghan families

Not really, many Afghans work there as laborers, just a few are rich warlords.

However, many Pashtuns from Pakistan who went to the Gulf regions are treated like slaves because they have nothing to bring into the Gulf region. They have no connections, they don't have a lot of money, so they're not considered useful.

Pak Pashtuns are actually richer, and many big businesses in Dubai,Qatar,Saudi etc are run by Pashtuns from Pak

http://tribune.com.pk/story/812318/pakistanis-invest-1-2b-in-dubai-real-estate-this-year/

[tilla_jogian]

and when pakistanis feel sameway about afghan refugees you guys then complain of mistreatment, wow....


What poor nation wants to stay poor?everyone wants to get better,richer etc


and who doesn't?The whole world is like Edhi or Theresa....


This is same complaint pakistanis have refugees, but on this forum afghan nationalists call it racism etc etc

My aunt lives in Tehran with her husband and kids. They moved there in the


Not really, many Afghans work there as laborers, just a few are rich warlords.


Pak Pashtuns are actually richer, and many big businesses in Dubai,Qatar,Saudi etc are run by Pashtuns from Pak

http://tribune.com.pk/story/812318/p...ate-this-year/

100% true, hypocrates lots of them. And LMFAO at Afghans being richer then Pak pashtuns in gulf regions. One need base from where to become richer and KPK gdp alone is 2-3 times higher then whole Afghanistan despite less population in KPK.

[pashtanajan]

100% true, hypocrates lots of them. And LMFAO at Afghans being richer then Pak pashtuns in gulf regions. One need base from where to become richer and KPK gdp alone is 2-3 times higher then whole Afghanistan despite less population in KPK.

There are Afghan millionaires you now. They are usually warlords or politicians and have stolen money meant for donations for refugees, or through other illicit activities. Here's an article about the Afghan elite in Dubai.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/world/middleeast/wealthy-afghans-snapping-up-properties-in-dubai.html?_r=0

[pashtanajan]

[MENTION=18008]tripledouble[/MENTION]

I was speaking from an objective stance, which you clearly didn't understand. Pakistanis see poor Afghan refugees as a burden on their system, but they don't mind the rich ones. Rich people are welcomed everywhere. It's how the world works unfortunately.

And there are many Afghan millionaires in the Gulf. Poor Afghan naturally can't even make it to these regions. Many Pakistanis can make it to the gulf region because they are educated, but that doesn't necessarily denote that they're super rich. Afghans in Dubai are usually wealthy and not that educated, probably relatives of warlords, etc. and they like buying property and living lavishly. I know some personally through family relatives, like Shukria Barakzai's husband. He stole money from Afghanistan's bank and bought property in Dubai. Interpol was after him, but I don't know what happened to the charges laid against him.

Of course there are exceptions. I'm sure there are rich Pakistanis too, but most of the rich Pakistanis I know are Panjabi and come from already established prominent families in Pakistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/world/middleeast/wealthy-afghans-snapping-up-properties-in-dubai.html?_r=0