Leaders

[Tamim]

I believe the two leaders, Dr. Muhammad Najibullah Ahmadzai Shaheed and Ahmad Shah Massoud Shaheed, were leaders who understood international politics very well; who knew what direction the world is heading towards.

Why were they killed?

Why another Ahmadzai (Ghani) and a Massoud commander (Abdullah) are in the forefront of Afghan news?

Have these men sold themselves for the end their brethren were trying to avoid?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I believe the two leaders, Dr. Muhammad Najibullah Ahmadzai Shaheed and Ahmad Shah Massoud Shaheed, were leaders who understood international politics very well; who knew what direction the world is heading towards.

Why were they killed?

Why another Ahmadzai (Ghani) and a Massoud commander (Abdullah) are in the forefront of Afghan news?

Have these men sold themselves for the end their brethren were trying to avoid?

The term shaheed doesn't apply to murderers and fanatics like najib who killed innocents with his own two hands.

[Tamim]

My respect towards stem from the fact that they knew and no one wanted to believe them or hear them, especially Islamists. Only Massoud and Najib understood each other. They each tried to warn the world. I guess that was their mistake..to warn the world. They paid dearly with their lives.

The people who knew...wanted them out...and the succeeded.

If Najib was alive, the Taliban would not have succeeded in Afghanistan. Najib had traitors around him.
If Massoud was alive, no one would have set foot in Afghanistan. His people were loyal to him.

[HalloIsBack]

The term shaheed doesn't apply to murderers and fanatics like najib who killed innocents with his own two hands.

with his own two hands?
source!

so and massoud is not a murder and fanatic who was a warlord and killed own people

[BarakzaiAbdali]

with his own two hands?
source!

so and massoud is not a murder and fanatic who was a warlord and killed own people

Good you are progressing. I like the fact you demanded a source, and that you demanded a source for a specific action.

Now your next step should be to demand a quality source and to ask for the veracity of that source.

From The Encyclopedia of Middle East Wars... by Spencer Tucker
page 874

Najibullah proved to be utterly ruthless while running the secret police, reportedly ordering the arrest, torture, and execution of tens of thousands of Afghan citizens.

Who is Mr. Tucker? He is a former Fulbright scholar and Virginia Military Institute Professor with the rank of Colonel.

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Next source with more REFINED criteria of what Najib did?

"Najibullah sometimesexecuted prisoners himself. His preferred method, according to survivors of his prisons, was to beat his victims to the ground, and then kick them to death." page 409

Source:
The World was Going our Way: The KGB and the Battle for the Third World

Authors:
Christopher M Andrews (Cambridge University/Professor of Modern and Contemporary History)

In fact my dear this is why he was called Koshak.

Regarding Mossoud, I never said he was a martyr, but he was once again a product of Najib's idiocy.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

My respect towards stem from the fact that they knew and no one wanted to believe them or hear them, especially Islamists. Only Massoud and Najib understood each other. They each tried to warn the world. I guess that was their mistake..to warn the world. They paid dearly with their lives.

The people who knew...wanted them out...and the succeeded.

If Najib was alive, the Taliban would not have succeeded in Afghanistan. Najib had traitors around him.
If Massoud was alive, no one would have set foot in Afghanistan. His people were loyal to him.

If Najib was alive he would be living like Pinochet or some other tin pot dictator in his Indian refuge and have returned along with the likes of that fool Atmar (another piece of trash). And Najib was alive and defeated by the Taliban, so your statement is disavowed by history itself.

Regarding Mossoud, he was already cozying up the France and other places for arms. Not single one of his men has made any issue at all with kharijaan being there - so if the student is reflective of the teacher then the answer is evident.

[Tamim]

The fact of the matter is that they are dead; and, everything they warned the West about came to happen.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The fact of the matter is that they are dead; and, everything they warned the West about came to happen.

If I go up to a stove and I put the water on boil, and then I put a three year old in the kitchen and a stepping stool there, its not hard to predict what might happen since I set the conditions for it to happen (Three year old will be curious and step onto the stool and tip scalding water onto herself). Najib was no different - his and his party's and his equal mindset people set the train in motion and then started whining like dogs when it was out the station, figuratively speaking that is. He basically set the events in motion and saw what his own hand had wrought. That's not genius, that's just plain foolish. Leaders with foresight don't birth disasters and then get called prophetic because they saw the disaster spinning out of control - they don't cause the ruckus in the initial.

[Tamim]

hindsight is always 20/20.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

hindsight is always 20/20.

Exactly, so when someone in hindsight did stupid things like he did and then predicted the result would be stupid, that's not foresight, that's just observation. There is a chasm of difference between observation and analysis.

[Tamim]

Dr Najib's analysis was second to none, except those who had inside information.

People used to hate Najib due to the Islam/Communist dichotomy. When he was murdered, they understood what they lost.

The walls of Kabul had written:

Take your seven donkeys
and gives us back our one cow.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Dr Najib's analysis was second to none, except those who had inside information.

People used to hate Najib due to the Islam/Communist dichotomy. When he was murdered, they understood what they lost.

The walls of Kabul had written:

Take your seven donkeys
and gives us back our one cow.

Hardly, proof has to be provided that what he said was anything other than frivolous damage control. His murder rate was second to none though! I think the treatment meted out to Ismat Muslim more than shows what Kandahar taught of his henchmen and him. Please do not insult cows since he is of a lower species.

[Tamim]

You seem to really hate him (sorry, could not find a stronger word).

One thing to remember, wrora jaana, I am a neutral person. I just try to filter information, mostly for my own education. Perhaps, there are things you have come across that I have not come across yet. However, life is not a simply linear equation x=y.

Different variables make that equation more complex.

I guess one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. (And, this is very complex.)

[Herat]

How do you not get it, those communists having reign in a place like Afghanistan would be comparable to Bin Laden and his ilk coming to power in America and being maintained by an army of jihadists terrorizing the population; what the hell do you think the Americans would do in that situation? Its just absurd, it has nothing to do with whatever he was, its not even that their ideology was utterly foreign and incompatible with that of the population, they freaking invited/brought a foreign super-power to murder a population into submission. Soviet social engineering was about several leagues above in the scale of totalitarianism compared to the Taliban. What exactly is that you are having difficulty understanding here?

[Tamim]

The alphabet has many letters...when you discriminate the letters you no longer have an alphabet.