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  • Afghan forces' flaws exposed

    Afghan security forces have shot civilians, launched attacks on each other, held drug fuelled parties and stolen vehicles in mass desertions, leaked US military documents have revealed.

    Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, wants his forces to take reponsibility for security in the country by 2014, but the documents, posted on the website Wikileaks on Monday, reveal a worrying culture of ill-discipline and incompetence within their ranks.

    Dozens of reports in the slew of leaked documents describe incidents suggesting the scale of the challenge in preparing Afghan forces to take the lead in the country's security is even larger than previously thought.

    The documents contain more than 70 records of so called "Green on Green" incidents in which Afghan security forces have fought each other rather than the Taliban.

    One report, on the shootings of a logistics officer and an Afghan intelligence officer in February last year, says that two Afghan policemen were "conducting horseplay with their service arms when they accidently shot the NDS director... and logistics officer."
    That incident was accidental, but the documents also describe episodes where Afghan security personnel have turned their weapons on each other in anger, often as a result of disputes between the army and the police.
    Fighting takes place within individual units as well. In April 2009 British troops reported that an Afghan soldier had shot his sergeant following an argument, and in another incident, a firefight between Afghan forces left a local civilian boy with a gunshot wound in his stomach.

    Martine van Bijlert, co-director of the Afghanistan Analysts Network, said that the reports were no surprise.

    "There have been regular cases of local fights between the army and the police, or internally between army or police units," she said.

    "It's part of the current nature of the Afghan security forces; partly a lack of discipline, small disputes that get out of hand. And sometimes there are pre-existing conflicts that come to a head, particularly between local forces."

    Drug abuse

    Some of the violence occurs after heavy drug use amongst Afghan forces. US troops have told Al Jazeera that some Afghan soldiers are smoking large quantities of marijuana before going out on patrol, leaving them unable to concentrate and suffering from repeated fits of "giggles" as they move through Taliban-held territory. lol

    One incident described in leaked documents records how a gunfight broke out between Afghan border guards who "were high on opium and having a party," on the roof of an interpretor's accomodation.

    The guards awoke the interpretor and an argument broke out. In the ensuing gun battle one of the guards was killed after being shot in the stomach.

    Another problem revealed by the documents is the high rate of desertion. The records show that at least 20 Afghan policemen deserted from a single post last summer, stealing vehicles in seperate incidents a fortnight apart.

    Van Bijlert says some of the equipment taken during desertions has ended up in the hands of the Taliban.

    "There have definitely been reports from the field of desertions where equipment is taken, in some cases the guns and cars are handed over to the insurgency," she said, adding that Karzai's timetable for Afghan forces taking control could be affected by the release of the information.

    Timetable affected?

    "There is a danger with tight timetables that the picture is made rosier than it is, in order to argue that things are on track. That might have become a bit harder, now that these documents are out there. They don't just show how things are, but also what the military and the administration knows."

    More than $27 billion has been invested in Afghan security forces and revelations will come as a major concern to countries with troops in Afghanistan, many of whom have endorsed Karzai's handover plan.

    David Cameron, the British prime minister, has explicitly linked the outcome of the war with the degree to which Afghan security forces are able to take responsibility for the country.

    "Victory in this war is being able to hand over to an Afghan government and an Afghan army and police force that are capable of securing their own country," he said last week.
    YouTube - Ability of Afghan police questioned

  • #2
    Ability of Afghan forces questioned - asia - Al Jazeera English

    Watch them get high

    Comment


    • #3
      I didn't read every word, but the gist of it sounds like the Afghan Army under the Soviet occupation.
      They did the same thing. Big surprise.
      Desert with all their weapons and materiel or anything they could get their hands on to present to mujahideen groups to show they were for real.

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh YEAH? You interviewed former Red Army officers?
        Where?
        That's really fascinating fo rme.
        You know, I'm just for my own interest working on trying to figure out what the real attitudes are.
        And any insights as to the current Russian involvements...which I'm sure there is, just it's very behind the scenes. Or else carefully suppressed by the Wesern media, which wants everything to appear as the US and Russia working together to "stop 'terrorism'"
        Jasmine, what did these officers tell you?? How did you find them?

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes I did read that!
          I follow events in Russia pretty closely. Not perfectly, but I keep an eye.
          Also traveled around there quite a bit, earlier, just to see who these people are firsthand. It's important to understand the world dynamics to hear what they have to say.
          Why don't you post the editorials. Where were they published?!
          I was thinking whether to post some of my articles too. We both should, if anyone is interested and it's OK with the forum.
          Why, because I think each piece of the puzzle that someone has worked diligently on to uncover can help shed light on the whole picture of Afghanistan where it was and how it got to the current problems.
          About the sphere of influence, that doesn't surprise me at all, because the Tsarist imperial forces were SO aggressive in taking over the Emirate of Bukhara, Merv, etc.
          and in such a bloody way. For example, General Skobelev at Geok-Tepe in 1888 or so - near modern Ashgabat. Shiver, shiver! The tsarist forces were so ruthless. I saw their bid for Afghanistan as merely an extension of this southwards expansionism.
          Sometimes I think they like to expand merely for the sake of aggression, that Russians through the modern era only feel secure when on the warpath or by stealth acquiring other countries.

          Comment


          • #6
            Perfectly fine with the Forum. Id like to read them myself, I'm sure others would too.
            Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

            A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

            For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


            The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

            -Ferishta, 1560–1620

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jasmine
              Moscow.

              I really feel like posting the editorials I wrote myself. But I don't feel comfortable yet. However, more or less there responses were sad and they still had this sense of revenge present in them.

              You would be surprised how much they feel like Afghanistan and other Central Asian republics should fall under their influence. Only a few had something worthwhile writing about others were just saying the regular.

              "Its all the USA's fault". Have you read about the article of the Russian professor who swore the US states will soon disintegrate?(Off-topic, I know)
              what exactly do you mean by "associating Russian influence with Afghanistan"

              Are you telling me that they are waiting on the NATO to leave and they'll take NATO's spot?

              I'm very curious now, I hope we don't have to repeat the history for the Russians again.
              The only difference this time is, that they are not a USSR, or share a border with us, which makes it even harder for them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks a lot, I was hesitating but figured at least a few people might find some historical background helpful. Mine are mostly about my experiences with the Mujahideen at the battle fronts of the war against the Sovs.
                Also political analysis about the Soviets' attempt to turn Afghanistan into their political satellite as well. And to eliminate or reduce Islam among the Afghans.
                These are timeless strategies which the Russians ALWAYS use.
                So just in CASE - God Forbid - Stagfir Allah, right? - they try to fill that vacuum, people will be armed with the information and defeat them in one year this time!

                I have a few about what it was like to be a journalist attempting to cover that war.

                What would be the format?
                Should we just start a thread and put the article - is there a limit on how much text can fit in one post?
                Important to be aware of first before we start.

                Greatly looking forward to yours too, Jasmine!
                Last edited by Catya Sher; 07-26-2010, 07:48 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  No, I remember when we were about to go into a war with Iran. (Talibano Islami Emarate)
                  The same Persians are aiding the same people that once moved their troops to the Herat border, in order to fight or kill Iranians.
                  Russian influence isn't as bad as WESTERN/SECULAR influence, Russians might have a couple of puppets like Northern Alliance and their guys, but they are not as big of a threat as the western influence, which comes in media, social, and every other form one can imagine.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    But Russian influence IS almost the same these days as Western influence.
                    Can't you see that Medvedev is in Obama's pocket now?!!
                    Then there's the Putin school of Recycled KGB-FSB agents which is spoiling to go back into action....
                    It's complex of course.
                    NEITHER ONE IS RIGHT - Russian influence can be not AS secular but what does the almost State Church of Russian Orthodoxy do for Afghans?
                    I have been around these people and let me tell you, they HATE Islam - I had so many horrible fights with them if I even said one tiny thing in favor of Muslims!
                    I am recovering slowly...they are brutal about stomping out Islam and asserting Christianity.
                    They are not so bad to their own Tatar population, though they keep close eye on it to make sure it stays mainstream and tame. The Orthodox - both Greek AND Russian just hate Muslims totally irrationally. You can not argue with them.
                    A warning if a reconstituted Russian Orthodox regime takes over Afghanistan
                    Iran is much better in my opinion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Catya Sher View Post
                      But Russian influence IS almost the same these days as Western influence.
                      Can't you see that Medvedev is in Obama's pocket now?!!
                      Then there's the Putin school of Recycled KGB-FSB agents which is spoiling to go back into action....
                      It's complex of course.
                      NEITHER ONE IS RIGHT - Russian influence can be not AS secular but what does the almost State Church of Russian Orthodoxy do for Afghans?
                      I have been around these people and let me tell you, they HATE Islam - I had so many horrible fights with them if I even said one tiny thing in favor of Muslims!
                      I am recovering slowly...they are brutal about stomping out Islam and asserting Christianity.
                      They are not so bad to their own Tatar population, though they keep close eye on it to make sure it stays mainstream and tame. The Orthodox - both Greek AND Russian just hate Muslims totally irrationally. You can not argue with them.
                      A warning if a reconstituted Russian Orthodox regime takes over Afghanistan
                      Iran is much better in my opinion.
                      The influence you are referring to doesn't make it pass the mountains of Panjsher.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Catya Sher View Post
                        But Russian influence IS almost the same these days as Western influence.
                        Can't you see that Medvedev is in Obama's pocket now?!!
                        Then there's the Putin school of Recycled KGB-FSB agents which is spoiling to go back into action....
                        It's complex of course.
                        NEITHER ONE IS RIGHT - Russian influence can be not AS secular but what does the almost State Church of Russian Orthodoxy do for Afghans?
                        I have been around these people and let me tell you, they HATE Islam - I had so many horrible fights with them if I even said one tiny thing in favor of Muslims!
                        I am recovering slowly...they are brutal about stomping out Islam and asserting Christianity.
                        They are not so bad to their own Tatar population, though they keep close eye on it to make sure it stays mainstream and tame. The Orthodox - both Greek AND Russian just hate Muslims totally irrationally. You can not argue with them.
                        A warning if a reconstituted Russian Orthodox regime takes over Afghanistan
                        Iran is much better in my opinion.
                        In what sense?
                        Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                        A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                        For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                        The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                        -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Zarawar, are you saying that Russian influence is not a threat to Pashtuns because it won't pervade their areas?

                          Admin Khan, I didn't mean to say that Iran should take over Afghanistan instead of Russia or the U.S. in case you thought that !

                          I believe that one has to look forward to the epoch after Inshallah NATO leaves when Afghanistan would be theoretically most vulnerable and have a plan ready.
                          The best option I see to shore up Afghan strength would be to forge good relations with all the neighbors in a very even balanced way. So that no one country can usurp control over Afghan decision making.
                          If the countries of South and Central Asia don't form an airtight strategic alliance, they will be prey for Western forces seeking to keep them under their thumb and very pliable.
                          So I feel getting along with Teheran is critical. The long time tensions should be diffused for the sake of presenting to the world a more united regional bloc.
                          Otherwise who knows who else may be tempted to cause trouble?

                          Hopefully a withdrawal will happen soon. Because I kind of suspect that IF that so-called reformist movement happens to come into power in Iran after Ahmadinejad's term ends, it's worse for Afghanistan probably. Pro-West, that govt would be unsympathetic to helping its neighbor. The current government seems to me that it would be more understanding and supportive of a traditional Afghan society.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Catya Sher View Post
                            Zarawar, are you saying that Russian influence is not a threat to Pashtuns because it won't pervade their areas?

                            Admin Khan, I didn't mean to say that Iran should take over Afghanistan instead of Russia or the U.S. in case you thought that !

                            I believe that one has to look forward to the epoch after Inshallah NATO leaves when Afghanistan would be theoretically most vulnerable and have a plan ready.
                            The best option I see to shore up Afghan strength would be to forge good relations with all the neighbors in a very even balanced way. So that no one country can usurp control over Afghan decision making.
                            If the countries of South and Central Asia don't form an airtight strategic alliance, they will be prey for Western forces seeking to keep them under their thumb and very pliable.
                            So I feel getting along with Teheran is critical. The long time tensions should be diffused for the sake of presenting to the world a more united regional bloc.
                            Otherwise who knows who else may be tempted to cause trouble?

                            Hopefully a withdrawal will happen soon. Because I kind of suspect that IF that so-called reformist movement happens to come into power in Iran after Ahmadinejad's term ends, it's worse for Afghanistan probably. Pro-West, that govt would be unsympathetic to helping its neighbor. The current government seems to me that it would be more understanding and supportive of a traditional Afghan society.

                            No, my father has killed plenty of RUSSIANS

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              GoPashtunGo, what are those Iranian interests?
                              It IS frightening what COULD occur - but then the U.S. is using that as its excuse to present to world opinion for stretching out its time in Afghanistan.
                              I think there needs a really good Plan for a smooth transition which could be drawn up as soon as now, so it could be put into action right away to prevent the infighting.

                              Do you see Pakistan as doing a tradeoff with the U.S.: pretending to follow Hillary Clinton's orders in return for American agreement to Pakistan having the upper hand on behalf of the U.S. post-withdrawal?

                              Zarawar, was your father a Mujahid ?
                              Where, when did he kill those Shuravi ?!
                              Last edited by Catya Sher; 07-27-2010, 04:21 PM.

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