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  • Afghan Elections

    assalaamu 'alaikum

    These elections is the best test for Afghans and our ability to work towards law and order.

    It is without a doubt that people feel that these elections have been rigged.

    Some accuse Dr. Ghani of rigging, some accuse Dr. Abdullah. In fact, people even say that because Dr. Abdullah got out rigged he is now crying foul.

    Whatever your stance is, one thing is for sure: the people of Afghanistan are being held hostage. The emotions of Afghans are being played with.

    After many years, decades, and even centuries, of turmoil, Afghanistan has finally been put on tracks towards developing a systemwhere the people have a say into the country's outcome where the leaders are not absolute in their power over the people.

    Whichever way you want to look at Elections 93, one thing is for sure, it is all being conducted under a system of law comprised of rules and regulations.

    Whether that system is being followed or not, or whether that system is working or not, is not the question. The fact is that these elections are being conducted under certain principles.

    Are these principle being followed, or are these principles fair?

    If you want the system to work you must follow the law, at all costs, even at the cost of being usurped your legitimate victory.

    Leadership is not a right, it is a privilege. Leadership is a trust: one must not betray that trust.

    The people give you their confidence to lead them. They entrust you with their safety and security.


    Therefore, it is absolute that the candidates make the system work, or at least in the public eye make it seem that the system is working. They have to trust the system, or that the system must at least be respected or at least to submit to that result of the process. Candidate need to express their confidence in the system and that the system is impartial.

    They must express that the system, a system, any system, has to be followed in and of itself.

    You cannot only submit to that system which will declare you a winner. One person has to be the loser.

    But, in reality, who is the winner, and who is the loser?

    Neither Dr Ghani nor Dr Abdullah have differing agendas, they are both halves of the same apple, the sides of the same coin: they are dependent on international aid and help. Therefore, they cannot have their own mandate. Their mandate is given by those who have interests in Afghanistan and who are supporting Afghanistan.

    This is the price you pay for being servants, being in-debt.

    Afghans could not achieve peace on their own. The international community has achieved it for us, or somewhat achieved it for us. It is ungrateful to allow the pouring of billion dollars of aid, and then try to fool your donors. It is bad policies and bad politics. It will force your helpers to pull the plug on the aid. And, if they, the donors, need Afghanistan and our natural resources and the geo-political control over Afghanistan, then they can simply bring someone else. Therefore, another round of war.

    Afghans just need a representative who will ensure that Afghanistan prospers and that law and order is maintain. Law and order can only be fine-tuned and refined over time. For now we need to submit to whatever system that will give us peace, even if that system is flawed.

    So, if there are concerns about election fraud, then allow the right channels need to handle the situation, and the candidates can't cry foul at every instance when it seems they are going to lose if the process continues and conclusion will be against them.

    One cannot rely on the first round of votes to determine the winner of the second round. This would defeat the philosophy which this logic wants to achieve.

    The second round of voting is a fresh round of voting. Anything can happen.

    If there are logical problems, then this should be addressed after these elections, and corrected for future elections. Otherwise, this would put the country back into the hands of war. The democratic process is such that you accept being wronged for the greater good.

    I feel that Dr. Abdullah needs to change his advisers. It seems that he is being advised by his campaign partners, campaign officials and supporters that he needs to call his victory.

    It is his fault. He has now gone to a point of no return. If he does not win, it could seriously jeopardize the peace of the country. He should not have declared victory, called President Karzai a fraud, called the IEC as partial, or mocked Dr Ghani. This behaviour has now pitted him against himself; he will deem it important now to protecting his name for fear of being called weak if he does not win or hold on to some sort of power.

    It will force him to want power, a power of some sort, either to win the elections right out, a parallel government or shared government, or accept a role within Dr. Ghani's cabinet.

    Dr Abdullah has set himself up against not going empty handed.

    Unless, Dr Abdullah finds a way to reverse his stance, if the final results are not in his favour, that is to say find a way to accept defeat and concede even at the expense of his own honor, the country will head right to civil war.

    The only other option is for Dr. Ghani to allow him to win, despite being declared the winner.

    Perhaps, Dr. Ghani needs to show who's the bigger person. It will take a lot, but if he has the right advise, it can happen. I think he will be able to talk to tribal elders and directly talk to his supporters and convinced them why this is the best way.

    Let's first see what the recount shows. I hope and pray that Dr. Ghani will fully agree to a full recount. He has to, otherwise, the nation will jeopardize 13 years of whatever stability we have had.

    A new election should not be in the question. The country needs to learn how to deal with problems without starting from scratch or taking matters to arms.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Tamim View Post
    assalaamu 'alaikum

    These elections is the best test for Afghans and our ability to work towards law and order.

    It is without a doubt that people feel that these elections have been rigged.

    Some accuse Dr. Ghani of rigging, some accuse Dr. Abdullah. In fact, people even say that because Dr. Abdullah got out rigged he is now crying foul.

    Whatever your stance is, one thing is for sure: the people of Afghanistan are being held hostage. The emotions of Afghans are being played with.

    After many years, decades, and even centuries, of turmoil, Afghanistan has finally been put on tracks towards developing a systemwhere the people have a say into the country's outcome where the leaders are not absolute in their power over the people.

    Whichever way you want to look at Elections 93, one thing is for sure, it is all being conducted under a system of law comprised of rules and regulations.

    Whether that system is being followed or not, or whether that system is working or not, is not the question. The fact is that these elections are being conducted under certain principles.

    Are these principle being followed, or are these principles fair?

    If you want the system to work you must follow the law, at all costs, even at the cost of being usurped your legitimate victory.

    Leadership is not a right, it is a privilege. Leadership is a trust: one must not betray that trust.

    The people give you their confidence to lead them. They entrust you with their safety and security.


    Therefore, it is absolute that the candidates make the system work, or at least in the public eye make it seem that the system is working. They have to trust the system, or that the system must at least be respected or at least to submit to that result of the process. Candidate need to express their confidence in the system and that the system is impartial.

    They must express that the system, a system, any system, has to be followed in and of itself.

    You cannot only submit to that system which will declare you a winner. One person has to be the loser.

    But, in reality, who is the winner, and who is the loser?

    Neither Dr Ghani nor Dr Abdullah have differing agendas, they are both halves of the same apple, the sides of the same coin: they are dependent on international aid and help. Therefore, they cannot have their own mandate. Their mandate is given by those who have interests in Afghanistan and who are supporting Afghanistan.

    This is the price you pay for being servants, being in-debt.

    Afghans could not achieve peace on their own. The international community has achieved it for us, or somewhat achieved it for us. It is ungrateful to allow the pouring of billion dollars of aid, and then try to fool your donors. It is bad policies and bad politics. It will force your helpers to pull the plug on the aid. And, if they, the donors, need Afghanistan and our natural resources and the geo-political control over Afghanistan, then they can simply bring someone else. Therefore, another round of war.

    Afghans just need a representative who will ensure that Afghanistan prospers and that law and order is maintain. Law and order can only be fine-tuned and refined over time. For now we need to submit to whatever system that will give us peace, even if that system is flawed.

    So, if there are concerns about election fraud, then allow the right channels need to handle the situation, and the candidates can't cry foul at every instance when it seems they are going to lose if the process continues and conclusion will be against them.

    One cannot rely on the first round of votes to determine the winner of the second round. This would defeat the philosophy which this logic wants to achieve.

    The second round of voting is a fresh round of voting. Anything can happen.

    If there are logical problems, then this should be addressed after these elections, and corrected for future elections. Otherwise, this would put the country back into the hands of war. The democratic process is such that you accept being wronged for the greater good.

    I feel that Dr. Abdullah needs to change his advisers. It seems that he is being advised by his campaign partners, campaign officials and supporters that he needs to call his victory.

    It is his fault. He has now gone to a point of no return. If he does not win, it could seriously jeopardize the peace of the country. He should not have declared victory, called President Karzai a fraud, called the IEC as partial, or mocked Dr Ghani. This behaviour has now pitted him against himself; he will deem it important now to protecting his name for fear of being called weak if he does not win or hold on to some sort of power.

    It will force him to want power, a power of some sort, either to win the elections right out, a parallel government or shared government, or accept a role within Dr. Ghani's cabinet.

    Dr Abdullah has set himself up against not going empty handed.

    Unless, Dr Abdullah finds a way to reverse his stance, if the final results are not in his favour, that is to say find a way to accept defeat and concede even at the expense of his own honor, the country will head right to civil war.

    The only other option is for Dr. Ghani to allow him to win, despite being declared the winner.

    Perhaps, Dr. Ghani needs to show who's the bigger person. It will take a lot, but if he has the right advise, it can happen. I think he will be able to talk to tribal elders and directly talk to his supporters and convinced them why this is the best way.

    Let's first see what the recount shows. I hope and pray that Dr. Ghani will fully agree to a full recount. He has to, otherwise, the nation will jeopardize 13 years of whatever stability we have had.

    A new election should not be in the question. The country needs to learn how to deal with problems without starting from scratch or taking matters to arms.
    Dr Abdullah was 15% ahead. After first round, Zalmay Rassoul (11%), Sayyaf (7%) and Sherzai (1,5%) endorsed him.. and now he is 13% down. Its obvious that pashtuns have committed mass fraud. According ECC in Herat 20000 women voted.. that number rises in Paktika up to 400000!!

    Its a shame. Abdullah has every right to complain.

    Comment


    • #3
      I did not say that no one has the right the right to complain. I said that the system needs to be respected. Whatever process exists to address the complaints needs to be respected.

      Comment


      • #4
        دعبدالله تیر وتنی.
        ولی عبدالله ټاکنی بایلی او ولی د منلو اراده نه لری.
        زه خو شنونکی نه یم خو ځینی تیروتنی می په سترګو سوی چی د عبدالله د بایللو علت کیدای سی.
        لمړی تیروتنه یی ډیر پخوا کړیده هغه تعلیم پریښود او د جنایت لاره یی خوښه کړل
        دوهم دا چی پر هغه لاره هم تر نورو تر لاس لاندی ؤ هیڅ وخت یی خپل ږغ نه دی پورته کړی هغوی دته د کونډی د زوی په سترګه کتل او بس په ده کی مشرتوب قابلیت نه ؤ.
        کله چی یی د جنایت کالی ویستل او د ډیموکراسی درشی یی واغوستل نو بیا هم بریالی نسو چی مشری وکی او پخوانی جنایتکاران پر ځان راټول کی نو بیا هم تر یوه او بل تر سیوری لاندی ؤ.
        او کله چی خبره د ټاکنو سول نو دی نه پوهیده چی ځان څنګه معرفی کړی چی خلګ وغولوی کله به پښتون سو او کله به تاجک چی دا کار ډیر تاجک په شک کی واچول او د ټاکنو پر وخت یی د رایی ورکولو پر ځای نه ورکول غوره وبلل.
        بل داچی ښاغلی عبدالله ډیر افراتی تاجک دی او د نورو ټولو ملیتو سره په شخړه دی چی عقلیتونه هم پر دی سړی چندان باور نه کوی.
        په اوسنی ټاکنو کی د خپل ځان د پخوانیو زوره ورانو په لاس کی واچوه او هغوی د خپلو ګټو د پاره عبدالله کاره وی او دته اوس هم د هم هغی کونډی د زوی په سترګه ګوری په ده هغه څه وایی او کوی چی دده سیاسی ژوند بلکل تر خاورو لاندی کوی.
        عبدالله هیڅ وخت دا کوښښ نه دی کړی چی سیاسی سلا کاران پیدا کړی او کار اور سره وکی دده په اوسنی ډله کی د ګوتو په شمیر مسلکی خلګ دی چی یو یی هم سیاسی پوهه نه لری لکه زلمی رسول چی یو طبی ډاکتر دی بله هیڅ زده کړه نه لری او یا جنرال علومی چی یو ښه عسکری سلاکار دی خو هیڅ سیاسی پوهه نه لری.
        نو زما په فکر عبدالله خپل اخیری موقع د لاسه ورکړل اوس نو دته لازمه ده چی د خپلو اولادو سره غلا سوی پیسی د هیواده باهر وخوری.
        بله تیروتنه دده دپاره شاید ډیره ګرانه تمامه سی.
        م.ر.رحیمی
        Last edited by dr.Rahimi; 07-09-2014, 02:05 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tamim View Post
          I did not say that no one has the right the right to complain. I said that the system needs to be respected. Whatever process exists to address the complaints needs to be respected.
          Brother you know very well that this system is a joke. By committing fraud Ashraf Ghani did not respect it but you don't say a word against that.

          I don't like Abdullah. I think he is a power-thirsty munafiq (just like Ghani) and I think he has been excessive naive because he really trusted this "fake democracy".

          This is system is unsustainable and deep deep down we both know that this crisis will trigger into civil war and disintegration of our country.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dehqaanherawi View Post
            Brother you know very well that this system is a joke. By committing fraud Ashraf Ghani did not respect it but you don't say a word against that.

            I don't like Abdullah. I think he is a power-thirsty munafiq (just like Ghani) and I think he has been excessive naive because he really trusted this "fake democracy".

            This is system is unsustainable and deep deep down we both know that this crisis will trigger into civil war and disintegration of our country.
            The system is what it is. Good nations are not built overnight. It takes time.

            I am not for or against anyone.

            I will not take sides, or defend a side or go against someone for the sake of it.

            The accusations leveled need to be proven in court, even if they are blatantly obvious. We need to trust the process of the judiciary. Otherwise, Afghans should never have hopes for a peaceful nation.

            You cannot have two winners. One has to be the loser, and he has to accept being the loser of the election and concede defeat with honour. Period.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tamim View Post
              The system is what it is. Good nations are not built overnight. It takes time.

              I am not for or against anyone.

              I will not take sides, or defend a side or go against someone for the sake of it.

              The accusations leveled need to be proven in court, even if they are blatantly obvious. We need to trust the process of the judiciary. Otherwise, Afghans should never have hopes for a peaceful nation.

              You cannot have two winners. One has to be the loser, and he has to accept being the loser of the election and concede defeat with honour. Period.
              Indeed bro, you are right. But you can not trust a system where the government is undermining it and taking side.

              Please, just answer my question.. why pashtuns can not accept a non pashtun as their president? Why this country must always remain under pashtun rule?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dehqaanherawi View Post
                Indeed bro, you are right. But you can not trust a system where the government is undermining it and taking side.

                Please, just answer my question.. why pashtuns can not accept a non pashtun as their president? Why this country must always remain under pashtun rule?
                That is a million dollar question.

                Afghans are able to live under non-Afghans and non-Muslims. Why? Perhaps, because of the rule of law. Western nations are very accommodating, irrespective of colour, creed, religion, gender, etc.

                However, this has taken them centuries to achieve.

                This means that the average Afghan does not care who rules them.

                However, I think it is a few people who are able to control the majority of innocent Afghans' views. Lack of education is the reason for this control.

                Our emotions, ghairat, is played with. We are led to believe that it is an insult to live under our own countrymen who are not ethnically like us.

                We need to overcome our prejudices and distrusts.

                I think the problem is that Afghans in general are not governable, because of our prejudices and distrusts.

                We do not like to take care of Afghanistan. We only want Afghanistan to benefit us. We do not like to contribute to our nation for the general good. We find it hard to accept that someone is benefiting at the expense of our taxes, so we don't pay taxes.

                So instead, we want foreigners to help us and better our country and build our country, and then we hate them; and, claim that we will never be servants.

                I think Afghans' tribal tendencies reflect this. The only way for us to live in peace is for our elders to put their foot down. Our elders need good counselors and advisers.

                Afghans know how to live under the rules of the non-Afghans and non-Muslim, because non-Afghans and non-Muslim hold power and control.

                Power needs to be placed in the hands of a neutral system by nature.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tamim View Post
                  That is a million dollar question.

                  Afghans are able to live under non-Afghans and non-Muslims. Why? Perhaps, because of the rule of law. Western nations are very accommodating, irrespective of colour, creed, religion, gender, etc.

                  However, this has taken them centuries to achieve.

                  This means that the average Afghan does not care who rules them.

                  However, I think it is a few people who are able to control the majority of innocent Afghans' views. Lack of education is the reason for this control.

                  Our emotions, ghairat, is played with. We are led to believe that it is an insult to live under our own countrymen who are not ethnically like us.

                  We need to overcome our prejudices and distrusts.

                  I think the problem is that Afghans in general are not governable, because of our prejudices and distrusts.

                  We do not like to take care of Afghanistan. We only want Afghanistan to benefit us. We do not like to contribute to our nation for the general good. We find it hard to accept that someone is benefiting at the expense of our taxes, so we don't pay taxes.

                  So instead, we want foreigners to help us and better our country and build our country, and then we hate them; and, claim that we will never be servants.

                  I think Afghans' tribal tendencies reflect this. The only way for us to live in peace is for our elders to put their foot down. Our elders need good counselors and advisers.

                  Afghans know how to live under the rules of the non-Afghans and non-Muslim, because non-Afghans and non-Muslim hold power and control.

                  Power needs to be placed in the hands of a neutral system by nature.
                  Bro, wish all afghans were like you. As a tajik I am proud that there are pashtuns like you in our country.

                  Keep it up.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ^Thank you.

                    I feel that every single vote, EVERY SINGLE vote, should be inspected. The winner should be declared after that.

                    Dr. Abdullah is claiming that if Afghanistan's peace is threatened and is finally disturbed, and Afghanistan if goes into civil war that it would be the fault of the Dr. Ghani.

                    So, Dr. Ghani would be responsible for Dr Abdullah's disturbance of peace.

                    Dr. Ghani's side is of the understanding that those who practically cause the turmoil in the end are responsible.

                    Dr. Abdullah's team is holding the nation at gunpoint. They feel that they have truly been wronged, and want to fix everything now and immediately.

                    So, I think for the sake of peace one should overwrite all of the mechanisms that are put in place and trample over the democratic process and listen to Dr Abdullah.

                    It is ironic that democracy means to allow the law to takes its course and play its role. However, Dr Abdullah says that democracy means that I have cried foul, and you should listen to me, otherwise, the peace of the nation will be threatened and it will be the fault of Dr. Ghani.

                    If Dr Abdullah does become the president, his turn will come when someone will hold the country at gunpoint because of some Dr. Abdullah's doing and will want his way or will threaten that he will create an uprising by the people and threaten peace.

                    The vicious cycle of Afghanistan will simply continue into the future where slightest of disagreements threatening Afghans into chaos.

                    Apparently, Dr Ghani had complaints in the first round about fraud and Dr Abdullah's team said to allow the democratic process to handle the problem.

                    How ironic.

                    What Dr. Abdullah is doing, and he is not realizing this, is that he is saying that he does not care for what the law says, he KNOWS better. This is a precedence he is setting. He is setting himself up for failure.

                    In any disagreement, all parties claim that they KNOW better. That is why you have an intermediary and whatever they arbitrate or mediate should be final.
                    Last edited by Tamim; 07-09-2014, 08:26 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dr Abdullah is saying that he does not trust anyone or any commission anymore, hence why he is not participating in any discussions with them.

                      When John Kerry comes, and if, in the end, it is concluded that Dr Ghani is the true winner, will Dr Abdullah concede or will he also add the Europeans and the Americans to the list of those who have conspired a plot to outstrip him of his right?

                      It goes without saying, the Westerns have their own interests and want someone who can push forward and maintain their interests.

                      Will Dr Abdullah in the end, if he has not already, submit to whatever the West wants in order to become president? Meaning, will he tell the West that he is their man and he will get the job done, whatever the job is?

                      I feel the leader that the international community wants has already been selected. And, it is evident that it is not Dr Abdullah, despite Dr Abdullah probably thinking that they were going to selected him, perhaps due to some pre-election talks.

                      In the end, whatever happens will happen because of what the West wants.

                      If Dr Abdullah knows this and he is creating all this facade and scene to show to the West that if I dont' win, I am bringing the stability of Afghanistan and your interests down with me.

                      Hence, I think that when Kerry comes on Friday that they will talk to Abdullah and calm him down and tell him they don't want him. Or, will Dr Abdullah's defiance be clear, and the West will have to tell Dr. Ghani that he needs to step aside, because they can't afford to see their interest threatened?

                      This is turning out to be a soap opera.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I find it so funny how suddenly all the tjiki trolls are coming to this forum to spread there dirty lies.
                        There licked theire master ass for more than a decade and now when they don't get what they want, suddenly USA is the big evil that wants to devide Afghanistan and what not. The only people who are now deviding Afghanistan are the Tjiki ethnocentrist who can't handel there defeat. You are such a bad looser, get over ourself, Ghani has won the ellection your disgusting warlord and criminal abdullah not.
                        He should man up and accept his defeat.
                        And you trolls should crawl back to your caves.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Politicians generally have narcissistic tendencies but for Dr. Abdullah to threaten security and stability is rather disturbing trait in a leader. Seriously childish out-burst of a narcissist.

                          And I absolutely agree with you that such a push and pull kind of behavior will set precedence in Government electoral process in the future (if we end up having any after this at all). We must say NO to this in Absolute terms. You can't ask people to not trust commissions, that is disturbing because you are asking people to loose trust in governmental procedures so it can loose its authority.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Abdullah and his protestors should be arrested for chanting "death to Karzai" and issuing death threats to him. That is completely inappropriate and a serious offense that can ruin him as a candidate and credibility as a person.
                            "Revenge is a dish best served cold".

                            -Old Pashtun proverb




                            "My Pashtun Pride i will not hide!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tamim View Post
                              Dr Abdullah is saying that he does not trust anyone or any commission anymore, hence why he is not participating in any discussions with them.

                              When John Kerry comes, and if, in the end, it is concluded that Dr Ghani is the true winner, will Dr Abdullah concede or will he also add the Europeans and the Americans to the list of those who have conspired a plot to outstrip him of his right?

                              It goes without saying, the Westerns have their own interests and want someone who can push forward and maintain their interests.

                              Will Dr Abdullah in the end, if he has not already, submit to whatever the West wants in order to become president? Meaning, will he tell the West that he is their man and he will get the job done, whatever the job is?

                              I feel the leader that the international community wants has already been selected. And, it is evident that it is not Dr Abdullah, despite Dr Abdullah probably thinking that they were going to selected him, perhaps due to some pre-election talks.

                              In the end, whatever happens will happen because of what the West wants.

                              If Dr Abdullah knows this and he is creating all this facade and scene to show to the West that if I dont' win, I am bringing the stability of Afghanistan and your interests down with me.

                              Hence, I think that when Kerry comes on Friday that they will talk to Abdullah and calm him down and tell him they don't want him. Or, will Dr Abdullah's defiance be clear, and the West will have to tell Dr. Ghani that he needs to step aside, because they can't afford to see their interest threatened?

                              This is turning out to be a soap opera.
                              You are right about that. Ghani is their man. Ghani has spent most of his life in USA, he is a american citizen and has been head of the World Bank. USA needs Northern Alliance but they don't trust them. After all during taliban time USA sided with taliban against Massoud.

                              Anyways seems Kerry/USA want a coalition.


                              Afghan Coalition Government Urged by U.S. in Vote Dispute




                              In my opinion coalition is the only way to avoid civil war. USA needs NA and they know pretty well that if they don't back them, NA leaders will turn to Russia, Iran, China and India.. all of them enemies of the USA.

                              Man I am a bit worried. Seems our country is again descending into chaos.

                              Comment

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