Division of Afghanistan?

[KGODB]

I genuinely appreciated Herats presence on this forum because a- he seemed like an intelligent young man, and b- he provided a perspective that was sorely missing from the delusional narrative most of you Pashtuns peddle on this forum

Like it or not, his perspective is based on certain ground realities and reflects the anger of many non Pashtuns.

Unfortunately with every post, the immature child in him emerges which will delegitimize what he has to say in the eyes of many members

Fact is, Afghanistan as we know it is for the most part finished. The non Pashtuns wont support a Pashtun president (the taliban angle is simply a ruse and excuse). The only exception would be a figurehead with nominal power a la Karzai, while they still control their own lands.

I do see partition as being a possibility, I also see a dysfunctional federalist system existing for a while before the eventual partition

If partition happens, not a single one of the rump states would thrive at all. The Pashtun South would be informally annexed by Pakistan and become an extension of FATA, the Non Pashtun North would be fragmented among its own regional, ethnic and secterian differences, and be informally a client state of Iran with Russian interference. The region would be a disaster for generations to come

The only salvation for the region and for the people of today's Afghanistan is a federalist structure but not just any federalist structure.

An Afghanistan that transitions to federalism today would fall apart within a few years

Afghanistan needs to become more of a confederacy between city states, a long the lines of a Central Asian UAE. A great degree of autonomy and domestic governance (education, health, some taxation), but a federalist structure with jurisdiction over foreign affairs, defence etc with open borders between the city states

This can only work if there is a unitied de-ethnicized party in power in Kabul which retains support and respect of the entire populace. It would have to be nationalist to some degree (to take advantage of the still existing sense of "Afghaniyat"), it would have to based on the idea of that land being Ariana, an ancient land, confederacy of all tribes, the idea of its independent nature, a shared history etc and there would have to be a conservative religious basis to it

Such a project, ideologically and in a practical sense, would also have to have a grand regional vision (Tajikistan, Pashtun/Baloch areas of Pakistan, other Central Asian states becoming part of a regional Ariana)

There would have to be an institutionalized propagation of state ideology, a force akin to the IRGC to exercise federal power.

Had a project like this been conceptualized 10 years ago, we might have been able to see its early fruition today. Unfortunately, this is a generational project which wont happen because other factors will take precedence before that comes to be.

Afghanistan has always lacked proactive visionaries. The partition argument is not bold or visionary at all. Its simply reactionary.

[Herat]

Here is the thing you too, although not to the extent that some other folk here do, have somewhat of a difficulty understanding: different groups, especially of an ethnic nature, see the world in fundamentally different ways, rooted in the fact that they have inherently different interests. People like DSM can self-deceive themselves as much as they want in the farcical delusion that the non-Pashtuns of Afghanistan in reality are utterly concordant with Pashtun ethnic interests (couched in the language of national interests) but ask yourself honestly, what would the non-Pashtuns seroiusly prefer, being a client-state of their ethnic and religious brethren in Iran (in the case of the Tajik and Hazara) or being ruled and dominated by the Taliban (a ruse? I expected more from an intelligent guy like you KGODB, do you seriously believe the western propped-up political state of affairs can last once NATO leaves?)? I think you and I know the answer to that.

Moreover, the other issue here is one of the short-run vs the long-run: you are correct, in the short-run, the partitioned states would be client-states of Iran and Pakistan. But in the long-run, it is my view that only homogeneous states are capable of developing as organic entities: Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria are not nation-states, in the sense as the entity was envisioned by the early Europeans who framed the concept, they are simply forced geographic territories where different ethnic, religious and social groups compete for resources and dominate each other. Any functional nation-state is and ought to be nothing more than an institutional formalization of what I call the "natural state": a single peoples tied together by commonality of blood, culture, history and destiny i.e. a single kinship group. There is absolutely nothing that binds a Tajik from Badakshan to a Pashtun from Helmand except religion, that is, anymore than there is anything that binds a Pashtun from Waziristan to a Punjabi from Rawalpindi.

A quasi/semi form of multi-ethnic federalism (the EU) in the 1st world of Europe today is fraught with problems and is in fact, as far as I have read some of the more astute analysts on the issue, destined for disintegration yet you believe a complete federal system will work in a craphole like Afghanistan? Its all a pipe-dream my good friend, the best we can hope for is regional economic integration (which the Central Asian states are currently endeavouring for, tough in the sphere of Russia). Khushal repeatedly makes analogies with the US but Afghanistan and the Middle East in general as it currently is is nothing like the US -well actually, it is somewhat like the US in the context of the new divide between White Americans, Hispanics and African-Americans (the recent rioting in Ferguson I think presages the future of the US) but it is nothing like the US as it historically developed as a mostly Northern-European (WASP) colonial state. The Middle East and Asia is more akin to Europe, especially Eastern Europe, where to this day despite their relative wealth and living standards, ethnic divides preponderate over internal cohesion except against the outside world.

[DSM0305]

Herat keep making the comparison between Badakshan people and Helmand people. Obviously he have never been to Afghanistan, if he had, he would never make that comparison.
I cant prove to you(since you haven't been neither to Badakshan or Helmand) that there isn't that much of a different between these two provinces in Afghanistan(in term of culture), at least not in words. Do yourself a favor and search 'Afghan Badakhshan', afterwards helmand people, then search 'Badakshan Tajikistan'. See for yourself how different Tajik people from Tajikistan is, and Afghan Tajiks. You will also see that there is literally no different between the Afghan people in terms of culture, even between those who are miles away from each other.

Instead of foolishly trying to convince others and yourself of Afghanistan 'partition', why not wait and see? You yourself said it is inevitable. If it is that, then you have no need to tell us. The fact is, you yourself don't believe it, but because of your low self-esteem you still 'hope'.

[25tajik75pashtun]

Herat keep making the comparison between Badakshan people and Helmand people. Obviously he have never been to Afghanistan, if he had, he would never make that comparison.
I cant prove to you(since you haven't been neither to Badakshan or Helmand) that there isn't that much of a different between these two provinces in Afghanistan(in term of culture), at least not in words. Do yourself a favor and search 'Afghan Badakhshan', afterwards helmand people, then search 'Badakshan Tajikistan'. See for yourself how different Tajik people from Tajikistan is, and Afghan Tajiks. You will also see that there is literally no different between the Afghan people in terms of culture, even between those who are miles away from each other.

Instead of foolishly trying to convince others and yourself of Afghanistan 'partition', why not wait and see? You yourself said it is inevitable. If it is that, then you have no need to tell us. The fact is, you yourself don't believe it, but because of your low self-esteem you still 'hope'.

I think he's a little hotheaded and doesn't have too broad of a horizon when it comes to understanding how the various ethnicities in afghanistan get along.

Herat, the thing is that the people from badakhshan, and the people from helmand, both in afghanistan and abroad will without a doubt, in most cases refer to themselves as afghan.

You really do need to hop off that iran boot licking though, iranian soldier literally shoot heratis at the border, they have no respect for afghans whether pashtun, tajik and most definitely hazara.

[Al-Afghani]

Badakshanis (Northern Alliance) and Helmandis (Taliban) fought a brutal civil war, just more than one decade ago. These memories are still fresh in their minds.

Or in the case of the Shomali people, I don't believe they have forgotten how Pashtuns expelled them from their homes, killing unarmed people and raping their women.

[DSM0305]

Badakshanis (Northern Alliance) and Helmandis (Taliban) fought a brutal civil war, just more than one decade ago. These memories are still fresh in their minds.

Or in the case of the Shomali people, I don't believe they have forgotten how Pashtuns expelled them from their homes, killing unarmed people and raping their women.

I assume you speak from experience.

It must have been hard for your mother to live with that experience. Even harder for you to live without knowing your father.

[Al-Afghani]

I assume you speak from experience.

It must have been hard for your mother to live with that experience. Even harder for you to live without knowing your father.

I do not speak from experience, but I have basic human emotions that allow me to sympathize with them. TajiksUzbeksHazara have all been victim of Pashtun war criminals.

Pashtuns, whether they are nationalist, tribalist, or Islamist, do not value life. They will be solely responsible for the breakup of Afghanistan.

[DSM0305]

I do not speak from experience, but I have basic human emotions that allow me to sympathize with them. TajiksUzbeksHazara have all been victim of Pashtun war criminals.

Pashtuns, whether they are nationalist, tribalist, or Islamist, do not value life. They will be solely responsible for the breakup of Afghanistan.

So from your 'basic human emotions' you're able to obtain first hand knowledge.

As an outsider, what do you think of the human race?

[Al-Afghani]

I think he's a little hotheaded and doesn't have too broad of a horizon when it comes to understanding how the various ethnicities in afghanistan get along.

Herat, the thing is that the people from badakhshan, and the people from helmand, both in afghanistan and abroad will without a doubt, in most cases refer to themselves as afghan.

You really do need to hop off that iran boot licking though, iranian soldier literally shoot heratis at the border, they have no respect for afghans whether pashtun, tajik and most definitely hazara.

TajikUzbekHazara call themselves "Afghanistani". "Afghan" is the name of an ethnicity, namely Pashtuns and nobody else.

[Herat]

TajikUzbekHazara call themselves "Afghanistani". "Afghan" is the name of an ethnicity, namely Pashtuns and nobody else.

Even that depends on what segment of the population you ask: it is ironic that DSM thinks I don't know anything about my own people, however I was in my ancestral land less than a year ago and let me tell you one of the discoveries I made there. You see, we too have our distinct urban and rural populations and I recently found out that one peculiarity of the later, at least the village folk in my area of Herat but I suspect it will be true of rural Tajiks in general, is that they still use the word "Afghan/Awghan" as an exclusive ethnonym for Pashtuns. It is literally only the urban folk in Kabul, Herat, Mazar etc that identify as "Afghan" in terms of a national identity, the village Tajiks don't even do that.

[Fish]

Even that depends on what segment of the population you ask: it is ironic that DSM thinks I don't know anything about my own people, however I was in my ancestral land less than a year ago and let me tell you one of the discoveries I made there. You see, we too have our distinct urban and rural populations and I recently found out that one peculiarity of the later, at least the village folk in my area of Herat but I suspect it will be true of rural Tajiks in general, is that they still use the word "Afghan/Awghan" as an exclusive ethnonym for Pashtuns. It is literally only the urban folk in Kabul, Herat, Mazar etc that identify as "Afghan" in terms of a national identity, the village Tajiks don't even do that.

Dear Herat,

It depends!! If you speak to a Shia Herati (minority) in Herat they will identify themselves as Afghanistani a new term created or Sunnis who will identify themselves according to their village or town. It's the same case in other areas of Afghanistan.

[Herat]

Dear Herat,

It depends!! If you speak to a Shia Herati (minority) in Herat they will identify themselves as Afghanistani a new term created or Sunnis who will identify themselves according to their village or town. It's the same case in other areas of Afghanistan.

Correct, village Tajik, Sunni, Shia, Herati or Badakshani, only identify with their own land, not "Afghanistan" and use the term "Afghan/Awghan" solely to designate Pashtuns. And I never said Shiite Heratis identify as "Afghanistani", I was correcting Al-Afghani since Ive never heard anyone use that term before, I should have made that clearer.

[Tiger Khan]

Your land?

LOL biggest joke on this forum. Nothing is your land nor is anything entitled to you. This is Pashtun land whether it is in the north south or east. Learn to accept that, even historians themselves say that Pashtun land strechtes from the Oxus to the indus.

Your getting more racist and pathetic in every post RTR.

read this

http://www.tolafghan.com/documents/9...s_original.pdf

[Tiger Khan]

You are qizalbash shia, you are not rooted in herat, ghilam-jam. Iraq and Syria are totally different from Afghanistan. As your family itself has migrated from Iran, so it doesn't look appropriate that you label Pashtuns as colonists in North.
Safavids forcibly converted your kind from hanafi to shiasim. Any sunni who refused to call names to first three caliphs and hazrat ayesha, was beheaded in Iran.........i mean your kind is puss.y and beghairat from the beginning...

http://www.tolafghan.com/documents/9...s_original.pdf

read this

[Tiger Khan]

Afghanistan is a Pashtun country and it works for interests of afghanistan