The Consequences of Linguistic Chauvinism

[Badlun]

I being a Pashtun yet I agree with many ideas of Herat but this point of Khostai is very interesting that Tajiks do not have their own language and adopt other languages and cultures.

I never understood the real history, anthropology, genealogy of Tajiks. Who they are?From where they originated? Are they one race or ethnicity or amalgamation of many? Did they ever have their own one language? What was their language before Persian?

[Khostai]

I being a Pashtun yet I agree with many ideas of Herat but this point of Khostai is very interesting that Tajiks do not have their own language and adopt other languages and cultures.

I never understood the real history, anthropology, genealogy of Tajiks. Who they are?From where they originated? Are they one race or ethnicity or amalgamation of many? Did they ever have their own one language? What was their language before Persian?

Its true in Afghanistan Tajiks traditional clothing is copy of PAshtuns, there language farsi si from Iran, there food is Uzbacki. I can't find anything that is typical Tajik..... In Tajikistan its even worse....

[Herat]

There is a good possibility that Pakistan will absorb the Pashtun areas of Afghanistan into their new Loya Pakhtunkhwa province. The Haqqanis, Omars, and Gulbuddins are already in favor of this.

One of the great injustices of history that has been brought about by the curse of Afghanistan is the growing distance between the non-Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Central Asia and Iran. The non-Pashtuns are a peoples of Persia and Central Asia yet they are now yoked to the fate of that other land of death in the region, the wretched nation of Pakistan. The Pashtun issue with Pakistan should have never been and ought not to be any of our business, we should strive for partition at all costs and let the Pashtuns deal with their problems with Pakistan however they wish, its none of our concern.

I being a Pashtun yet I agree with many ideas of Herat but this point of Khostai is very interesting that Tajiks do not have their own language and adopt other languages and cultures.

I never understood the real history, anthropology, genealogy of Tajiks. Who they are?From where they originated? Are they one race or ethnicity or amalgamation of many? Did they ever have their own one language? What was their language before Persian?

I respect you Badlun and do not wish to insult you but from now on I must insult your people whenever I see mine insulted. To answer your question, we are Persians, the problem here is that you have an erroneous understanding of what constitutes people-hood; I suspect your tribalism as Pashtuns has something to do with it. Tell me, Badlun sahab, have you ever looked at history with a view to finding patterns? If you have, you will find one very consistent pattern: civilization inevitably attracts other peoples. The most mixed peoples of Europe today are the Greeks and the Italians, and one main factor responsible for that has to do with the fact that they are the descendants of those very early civilizations of Europe: Greece and Rome, which like all civilization, were centres of centripetal attraction for all surrounding people. This phenomena is rooted in that fundamental principle of economics: people respond to incentives! Whether it be the merchant looking for profit, the invading plunderer in hunt of gold, or the common migrant in simple search of higher living standards, human beings are drawn to civilization. You don't see the rest of the world immigrating to hell-holes like Afghanistan today do you? No, they immigrate to civilization, to the west.

You see, in the ancient world, Persia was one of the civilizations of the region and you don't need to know the details of history to predict what that will have meant for its demographics if you understood the paragraph above. The White Americans of today are in fact the result of the mixing of all the migrating peoples of Europe, they have inherited the tongue of the English who in fact are also demographically of mixed Germanic and Celtic origin. We Persians are the mixture mostly of the Indo-Iranians of Central Asia and the native peoples of the Levant-Mesopotamia-Caucasus region (the group associated with the Y-DNA marker J-M172), with some Turkic admixture toward Tajikistan. You Pashtuns, on the other hand, are a relatively very homogeneous group (tribal yes but genetically you are homogeneous), why is that? Part of the answer is that you have never had or been associated with what might be called civilization and so there was never really any incentive for surrounding peoples to join and become a part of you. Ironically, the great khwarezmian (these are one of the Indo-Iranian groups that became Tajiks) Muslim scholar Al-Biruni described you as a savage people of the (Suleiman) mountains in his Tarikh-Al Hind. We Tajiks are Persians and I am not ashamed of the fact that we are an eclectic demographic in the slightest. As I said before, we have different standards of what constitutes people-hood and respectability.

[Kushan Prince]

I being a Pashtun yet I agree with many ideas of Herat but this point of Khostai is very interesting that Tajiks do not have their own language and adopt other languages and cultures.

I never understood the real history, anthropology, genealogy of Tajiks. Who they are?From where they originated? Are they one race or ethnicity or amalgamation of many? Did they ever have their own one language? What was their language before Persian?

I opened a thread on them in the hujra section and thought they were arabs because of their name "Tazdik" which means arab in persian language. I personally believe they are mixture of different people like arabs, turks, persians and probably native Sodghians.

I requested my thread later to be closed because Herat (AKA RTR) kept trolling on it.

[khushal]

I respect you Badlun and do not wish to insult you but from now on I must insult your people whenever I see mine insulted. To answer your question, we are Persians, the problem here is that you have an erroneous understanding of what constitutes people-hood; I suspect your tribalism as Pashtuns has something to do with it. Tell me, Badlun sahab, have you ever looked at history with a view to finding patterns? If you have, you will find one very consistent pattern: civilization inevitably attracts other peoples. The most mixed peoples of Europe today are the Greeks and the Italians, and one main factor responsible for that has to do with the fact that they are the descendants of those very early civilizations of Europe: Greece and Rome, which like all civilization, were centres of centripetal attraction for all surrounding people. This phenomena is rooted in that fundamental principle of economics: people respond to incentives! Whether it be the merchant looking for profit, the invading plunderer in hunt of gold, or the common migrant in simple search of higher living standards, human beings are drawn to civilization. You don't see the rest of the world immigrating to hell-holes like Afghanistan today do you? No, they immigrate to civilization, to the west.

You see, in the ancient world, Persia was one of the civilizations of the region and you don't need to know the details of history to predict what that will have meant for its demographics if you understood the paragraph above. The White Americans of today are in fact the result of the mixing of all the migrating peoples of Europe, they have inherited the tongue of the English who in fact are also demographically of mixed Germanic and Celtic origin. We Persians are the mixture mostly of the Indo-Iranians of Central Asia and the native peoples of the Levant-Mesopotamia-Caucasus region (the group associated with the Y-DNA marker J-M172), with some Turkic admixture toward Tajikistan. You Pashtuns, on the other hand, are a relatively very homogeneous group (tribal yes but genetically you are homogeneous), why is that? Part of the answer is that you have never had or been associated with what might be called civilization and so there was never really any incentive for surrounding peoples to join and become a part of you. Ironically, the great khwarezmian (these are one of the Indo-Iranian groups that became Tajiks) Muslim scholar Al-Biruni described you as a savage people of the (Suleiman) mountains in his Tarikh-Al Hind. We Tajiks are Persians and I am not ashamed of the fact that we are an eclectic demographic in the slightest. As I said before, we have different standards of what constitutes people-hood and respectability.

What is all this?
Civilizations are made around specific geography. Earlier civilizations were made around arable valley's like the Indus, Nile, Tigris and Euphrates. What the Greeks did was unite these civilizations into one administration. The Greek civilization in realty was made by the Persians, all the Greeks did was take it over just like the Romans taking it over from the Greeks and the Arabs taking it over from the Romans. Civilizations was inherited and advanced by all of humanity supporting your claim that people flock to civilization and advancing it. The American civilization is being advanced by mostly migrants just like its earlier predecessors. What America offers is great geography and environment for people to advance the civilization.

Pashtun have contributed to civilization and most of India was administrated by Pashtuns for hundreds of years (which by the way was the richest admistrative unit until the brits plundered it for its own interest), its just that they cant built it in the sulaimon mountains because of geography.

The jews are probably one of the brightest people in the world but the contribution they have made to civilization has been mostly outside their indigenous land.

[Herat]

What is all this?
Civilizations are made around specific geography. Earlier civilizations were made around arable valley's like the Indus, Nile, Tigris and Euphrates. What the Greeks did was unite these civilizations into one administration. The Greek civilization in realty was made by the Persians, all the Greeks did was take it over just like the Romans taking it over from the Greeks and the Arabs taking it over from the Romans. Civilizations was inherited and advanced by all of humanity supporting your claim that people flock to civilization and advancing it. The American civilization is being advanced by mostly migrants just like its earlier predecessors. What America offers is great geography and environment for people to advance the civilization.

Pashtun have contributed to civilization and most of India was administrated by Pashtuns for hundreds of years (which by the way was the richest admistrative unit until the brits plundered it for its own interest), its just that they cant built it in the sulaimon mountains because of geography.

The jews are probably one of the brightest people in the world but the contribution they have made to civilization has been mostly outside their indigenous land.

One of my fits of rage that happens whenever I look back at past threads in this forum and see what many of you guys really think about us, finally expressed this time. In truth I don't blame you guys at all, you have every right to be enraged at us, for many of the legitimate reasons expressed here. Reading this forum has confirmed to me what I expected from the beginning, namely that we can't really get along in the same country. That aphorism "Good fences make good neighbours" truly captures the solution to the problem of Afghanistan-Pakistan, I think a stupendous amount of misery can be relieved if we place our fences where they really belong. I came to this forum believing that separation can truly be our only salvation and my time here (with school approaching) will soon come to an end with that belief in mind.

[khushal]

Separation wont happen unless the 5 imperial powers approve or at least the 3 dominant imperial powers(US, Britain, France) approve and these powers are deep thinkers, they wont approve anything unless they make sure that they will remain masters of the separate entities. If you wish to separate, then your work is not in Afghanistan, but at the headquarters of those powers, start lobbying like Salah is.

[Al-Afghani]

One of my fits of rage that happens whenever I look back at past threads in this forum and see what many of you guys really think about us, finally expressed this time. In truth I don't blame you guys at all, you have every right to be enraged at us, for many of the legitimate reasons expressed here. Reading this forum has confirmed to me what I expected from the beginning, namely that we can't really get along in the same country. That aphorism "Good fences make good neighbours" truly captures the solution to the problem of Afghanistan-Pakistan, I think a stupendous amount of misery can be relieved if we place our fences where they really belong. I came to this forum believing that separation can truly be our only salvation and my time here (with school approaching) will soon come to an end with that belief in mind.

Afghanistan is already split in two, Pashtuns live under Taliban rule and the others don't.

[khushal]

Afghanistan is already split in two, Pashtuns live under Taliban rule and the others don't.

its more like the Pashtuns don't want warlords and the others do.

[Al-Afghani]

its more like the Pashtuns don't want warlords and the others do.

Haqqani, Omar, and Gulbuddin are warlords as well. But they hide behind the name of "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan".

[khushal]

Haqqani, Omar, and Gulbuddin are warlords as well. But they hide behind the name of "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan".

Unlike your warlords who hide behind US soldiers.

[Al-Afghani]

Unlike your warlords who hide behind US soldiers.

TajikUzbekHazara warlords employ local men from their own ethnic communities for their protection. They do not have ISI safe houses, like Pashtuns.

[khushal]

TajikUzbekHazara warlords employ local men from their own ethnic communities for their protection. They do not have ISI safe houses, like Pashtuns.

Tajiks cant fight, they never could, this is why US soldiers are present in Afghanistan and Russian soldiers are present in Tajikistan.

[Kushan Prince]

Tajiks cant fight, they never could, this is why US soldiers are present in Afghanistan and Russian soldiers are present in Tajikistan.

Which is also why Pashtuns were settled in the north so they could fight of the russian forces that incase tried to invade Afghanistan.

Pakhtuns have always retaliated forgieners while these landaghars have welcomed them in their own homes and have even danced with american forces in weddings in mazar and kabul. Go figure.

[Al-Afghani]

Tajiks cant fight, they never could, this is why US soldiers are present in Afghanistan and Russian soldiers are present in Tajikistan.

Pashtuns proved to be unable to defeat Tajiks, even though Tajiks were outnumbered and outgunned.

And Americans are present in Afghanistan because of Pashtunwali (or, hosting people even if they are terrorists).

Omar should have extradited Bin Laden, his father in law, if he didn't want 100,000 dead and injured Pashtuns.