2016 Departure Date

[Insight]

Obama once again reaffirms US withdrawal

Obama once again reaffirms US withdrawal despite recent ramblings by NATO head/Ghani/US generals about a manufactured ISIS threat to Afghanistan. He is not budging. This is probably the 10th time he has reasserted this.

Here is his speech today marking memorial day.

In a Memorial Day speech that saw him receive several standing ovations, President Obama thanked the troops who came home and those who didn’t and marked the first Memorial Day in 14 years in which the United States was not fighting a ground war in Afghanistan.
Video:
The President said:
For 147 years, our nation has set aside this day to pay solemn tribute to patriots who gave their last full measure of devotion for this country that we love. And while the nature of war has changed over that time, the values that drive our brave men and women in uniform remain constant: Honor, courage, selflessness. Those values lived in the hearts of everyday heroes who risked everything for us in every American war — men and women who now rest forever in these quiet fields and across our land.
They lived in the patriots who sparked a revolution, and who saved our union. They lived in the young GIs who defeated tyranny in Europe and the Pacific. And this year, we mark a historic anniversary — 70 years since our victory in World War II. More than 16 million Americans left everything they knew to fight for our freedom. More than 400,000 gave their lives. And today I ask all the family and friends of our fallen World War II heroes — spouses, children, brothers and sisters, and fellow veterans of World War II — to please stand if you can, or raise your hand, so that our country can thank you once more.
….
For many of us, this Memorial Day is especially meaningful; it is the first since our war in Afghanistan came to an end. Today is the first Memorial Day in 14 years that the United States is not engaged in a major ground war. So on this day, we honor the sacrifice of the thousands of American servicemembers — men and women — who gave their lives since 9/11, including more than 2,200 American patriots who made the ultimate sacrifice in Afghanistan.
…..
My fellow Americans, this hallowed ground is more than the final resting place of heroes; it is a reflection of America itself. It’s a reflection of our history — the wars we’ve waged for democracy, the peace we’ve laid to preserve it. It’s a reflection of our diversity — men and women of all backgrounds, all races and creeds and circumstances and faiths, willing to defend and die for the ideals that bind us as one nation. It’s a reflection of our character, seen not only in those who are buried here, but also in the caretakers who watch over them and preserve this sacred place; and in the Sentinels of the 3rd Infantry Regiment who dutifully, unfailingly watch over those patriots known only to God, but never forgotten. Today, a grateful nation thanks them as well.

Most Americans don’t fully see, don’t fully understand the sacrifice made by the one percent who serve in this all-volunteer armed forces — a sacrifice that preserves the freedoms we too often take for granted. Few know what it’s like to take a bullet for a buddy, or to live with the fact that he or she took one for you. But our Gold Star families, our military families, our veterans — they know this, intimately.
….
These sons and daughters, these brothers and sisters who lay down their lives for us — they belong to us all. They’re our children, too. We benefit from their light, their positive influence on the world. And it’s our duty, our eternal obligation, to be there for them, too; to make sure our troops always have what they need to carry out the mission; to make sure we care for all those who have served; to make sure we honor all those whom we’ve lost; to make sure we keep faith with our military families; to make sure we never stop searching for those who are missing, or trying to bring home our prisoners of war. And we are grateful for the families of our POW/MIAs.
This may be the first Memorial Day since the end of our war in Afghanistan. But we are acutely aware, as we speak, our men and women in uniform still stand watch and still serve, and still sacrifice around the world.
Several years ago, we had more than 100,000 troops in Afghanistan. Today, fewer than 10,000 troops remain on a mission to train and assist Afghan forces. We’ll continue to bring them home and reduce our forces further, down to an embassy presence by the end of next year. But Afghanistan remains a very dangerous place. And as so many families know, our troops continue to risk their lives for us.
….
The Americans who rest beneath these beautiful hills, and in sacred ground across our country and around the world, they are why our nation endures. Each simple stone marker, arranged in perfect military precision, signifies the cost of our blessings. It is a debt we can never fully repay, but it is a debt we will never stop trying to fully repay. By remaining a nation worthy of their sacrifice. By living our own lives the way the fallen lived theirs — a testament that “Greater love has no other than this, than to lay down your life for your friends.”
We are so grateful for them. We are so grateful for the families of our fallen. May God bless our fallen heroes and their families, and all who serve. And may He continue to bless the United States of America.

According to the pool reporter on the scene, the President received several standing ovations for thanking the troops for their service. The 2015 Memorial Day speech was the first in nearly a generation that felt like a thank you to all of those who have sacrificed for their country. There was no mention of current conflicts and winning wars. For the first time since American troops went to Afghanistan, it felt like a real thank you and remembrance of the lives lost.
There are still American troops in Afghanistan. The war is not over for them, but we should all pray that they may come home to be thanked on Veterans Day instead of being remembered on Memorial Day.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/05/25/obama-receives-multiple-standing-ovations-memorial-day-speech-thanking-troops.html

[Bengal_Tiger]

NATO hopes to keep a base in Afghanistan, U.S. general says



By Tim Craig May 23

KABUL — The leaders of the United States and other NATO nations are intensifying discussions about future support for Afghanistan, probably meaning at least some American troops will remain here well after President Obama leaves office, a U.S. Army general said Saturday.

Gen. John F. Campbell, commander of the U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan, said that NATO military commanders plan to establish a base in Kabul to help distribute aid, facilitate weapons sales and continue efforts to train Afghan security forces.

Although Campbell stressed that NATO civilian officials probably will be in charge of the new mission, a contingent of troops also would be needed to secure the base. Campbell said that NATO forces also could be used to help bolster the Afghan air force and intelligence service.


“Countries will see that there are areas where they can help Afghanistan, and they will want to do that. And instead of trying to figure it out on their own, there will be a NATO headquarters where they can synchronize this,” said Campbell, adding it was too early to speculate how many NATO personnel would remain in Afghanistan and where they would be housed.

But preliminary discussions about the matter were held in mid-May when foreign ministers from the 28-nation NATO alliance met in Turkey. There was also a NATO defense chiefs meeting in Brussels last week. NATO leaders hope to finalize decisions about Afghanistan ahead of a scheduled NATO summit in Warsaw next summer, Campbell said.

“Our future presence will be led by civilians. It will have a light footprint, but it will have a military component,” NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said in a statement.

The talks are another sign that Obama will face continued difficulty in trying to fulfill his promise to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by the time he leaves office in January 2017. Earlier this year, Obama had to backtrack on an earlier pledge to slash the number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan by half over the course of the year.

Instead, with the Taliban and the Islamic State posing continued threats in Afghanistan, Obama agreed to keep 9,800 American troops in the country into next year. They form the bulk of the 13,200 international troops currently stationed here.


Obama has stressed, though, that he plans to complete the withdrawal during his final months in office.

But any post-2016 NATO operation would be in addition to what Campbell said are already plans to leave a residual force of American troops behind to guard the U.S. Embassy. Preliminary planning for that calls for about 1,000 troops and contractors, Campbell said.

Talks about a long-term international presence in Afghanistan are taking place amid growing signs that the Afghan military is struggling to repel the Taliban insurgency.


Since the start of the annual spring fighting season in late April, Afghan forces have been locked in bloody battles with Taliban militants in at least 10 provinces. In northern Afghanistan, the challenges facing the Afghan army are so persistent that it is paying local militias to help it fight the Taliban, Reuters reported.


Campbell is also worried by the expansion of the Islamic State into Afghanistan and Pakistan. Citing local officials, Afghanistan’s Tolo News reported Friday that Islamic State militants now control most of Nangahar province in northeastern Afghanistan.

Campbell dismissed those reports, saying neither Islamic State nor the Taliban control large areas of territory in Afghanistan. But Campbell said that the threat posed by the Islamic State has been steadily increasing over the past six months.

“We are not seeing it operationalized to the point of like what you are seeing in Syria,” Campbell said. “But I think, given time, that is where they want to go, so I think we have to squash that out now while we can.”

As part of a security agreement between Afghanistan and the United States, American forces are continuing raids and airstrikes against targets deemed a security risk. Campbell declined to comment on whether those targets now include Islamic State militants, but he said he has “all the appropriate authorities” to protect coalition troops.

If all U.S. troops in Afghanistan fall under NATO command in 2017, though, Campbell said new negotiations would be needed to continue those operations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nato-hopes-to-keep-a-long-term-base-in-afghanistan-us-general-says/2015/05/23/d4f6a25c-0157-11e5-8c77-bf274685e1df_story.html

1. NATO will have a military base in Afghanistan long after the reduction of US forces.

Notice I said reduction and not withdrawal, because as per current planning, the US will still retain 1,000 military personnel to guard the US embassy in addition to the other NATO forces.

The 1,000 US soldiers to guard the embassy would still be twice the amount of Turkish soldiers present in Afghanistan now.



2. There are under 14,000 NATO troops in Afghanistan now but NATO will still stay in the country.

NATO = USA.

NATO is essentially the USA with lots of other countries some with tiny militaries to make it look like a grand alliance.

NATO will be staying in Afghanistan.

[Bengal_Tiger]

1. In addition to NATO (the US led western military alliance) to the north of Afghanistan there is the Russian equivalent, the Russian-led CSTO.







2. Then directly next door is China with the largest army in the world.




Both Russia (and its CSTO which includes Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, neighbours of Afghanistan) and China are anti-Taliban powers and won't accept the Taliban coming in to power or at least not expanding their territory and influence and destabilizing central Asia.



3. Iran is another anti-Taliban power alongside China, Russia and Turkey, which though it will work with the Taliban at times deep inside hates the anti-Shia organization and is has religious and linguistic sympathies with the Shia Hazaras or the Tajiks.



4. Turkey is a player in Afghanistan and will militarily support Dostum and the Uzbeks against the Taliban.


It is only Pakistan that supports the Taliban and now they are coming from pressure from China (and perhaps Saudi too) to end/reduce that.


China/Russia/Iran/Turkey/India (maybe Saudi) v Pakistan.

[Insight]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...4ff_story.html

President Obama said Tuesday that he would freeze U.S. troop levels in Afghanistan at 9,800 through the end of the year but vowed to end the American war by the end of his presidency.
Obama announced that he would slow the planned withdrawal of U.S. troops after a White House meeting with Afghan President Ashraf Ghani. The decision to keep more U.S. forces in Afghanistan this year was driven by the administration’s confidence in Ghani, whom Obama praised repeatedly. Relations between Ghani’s predecessor, Hamid Karzai, and the U.S. government had been steadily deteriorating for years. Obama lauded Ghani, who took office in September, for taking on “the mantle of commander in chief in a way that we have not seen in the past from an Afghan president.”
But Obama also made it clear that he wouldn’t depart from his current plan to close the remaining U.S. bases in Afghanistan and consolidate the remaining U.S. forces in Kabul by the end of 2016.
“Afghanistan is still a dangerous place,” Obama said. “The way it’s going to become less dangerous is by Afghan security forces* being capable of keeping law and order and security in the country, and that is not going to happen if foreign forces* are continually relied upon.”

[Insight]

Keep reading this ^ @Bengal_Tiger and please respond to my other posts in which you attempted to initiate a discussion and then refused to reply. I was under impression I was on your Ignore list, but you continue to read my posts. It seems you follow me quite avidly and that is flattering.

[Insight]

@Bengal_Tiger

You downplay Obama as the Commander in Chief of US, but want to hype up NATO generals (who are subservient to Obama-US despite their attempts to undermine him).

The criticism he is facing for deciding on a full US withdrawal has a racial aspect to it because he is black. I do not think there would be this many attempts to undermine his authority had he been white.

As for the consolidating to an embassy presence (of under a 1000 US forces according to Obama's 2016 plan), you ought to know that Obama also claimed his Yemen policy as success, but then ended up evacuating all US forces from the US embassy in Yemen once Houthi Shiite took over.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/02/11/yemen-embassy-closures/23220185/

I find Obama to be a very tact politician who refuses to change his decision. This is a commendable quality despite the flaws I find with his desperate policy with Iran. What is clear from both his policy of full US withdrawal from Afghanistan and US talks with Iran, is that he doesn't succumb to pressure whether it be by the US military, the Republicans, Israel, or AIPAC.

Obama has made today's Memorial Day speech reasserting the US withdrawal from Afghanistan decision after NATO general "hoped" to have a base in Afghanistan.

[Bengal_Tiger]

UnknownPrince a.k.a. Ghundal a.k.a. Lynx a.k.a Shah-i-Kot a.k.a Insight you are indeed on my ignore list, having insulted me without provocation in the past. However you have mentioned me twice in the past few minutes, so I decided to have a look at what you've said.

*************************************

*************************************

Now I am not going to insult you and say you are X and Y, but I'm going to address your posts.


1. We can both speculate, there is speculation and there is reality.

The reality is that NATO is in Afghanistan.

Fact.

Whether they leave or stay is speculation.

However even if they "withdraw", they will still have twice as many soldiers in Afghanistan as the Turks do now, i.e. 1,000 soldiers (Turks have over 500)






2. Also logically there is no reason for you to gloat unless what you predict actually materializes.

Let me give you an example.

In 2018 there will be a football (soccer to you Americans) world cup in Russia.

Imagine an Italy fan saying "hahaha....we've won the world cup in Russia", even before it takes place.

This is how you are behaving.

The Italy fan can gloat when/after he wins, not before.




3. Your joy at the prospect of the US reducing their troop levels to 1,000 (and that is not a "withdrawal", the US humiliation and exit from Saigon is what we call a withdrawal) stems from your belief that the Kabul government will then collapse to your heroes the Taliban.



US evacuation from Saigon after being defeated by the Vietnamese.


That is not guaranteed.

Even in the 1990s the nearest thing to the Taliban, Hekmatyar's Hezb i Islami could not take full control of Kabul and Afghanistan, so what makes you think the Taliban could now?

- This is a different time in history, where Afghanistan is not isolated as before. Millions of Afghans are connected to the outside world via the internet and want to be part of the world and not live in some obscurantist Deobandi state whilst you enjoy the benefits and comfort of living in secular capitalist, NATO-protected America.

- Apart from the ANA (Afghan National Army for the benefit of silent readers) there are other militias, e.g. Dostum's Uzbeks, Abdullah's Tajiks, the Hazaras who can get support from both Iran and Turkey. Iran because they're Shia and Turkey because Turkey considers them as Turanic.

Then there is China, Russia, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, India as well as Iran and Turkey all of whom are anti-Taliban.




4. I don't understand why a Pakistani from Quetta like you is so enamoured with the Taliban.

I don't like to say this but politics is a dirty business.

There were even reports that the PMAP in Quetta were trying to lobby for some Afghans to not be able to vote (or lose citizenship or something) as the Afghans in Quetta tended to vote for the ultra-conservative JUI-F (something akin to a political wing of the Taliban).







Summary

You can celebrate and gloat over the thought of only 1,000 American soldiers (plus other NATO forces) remaining in Afghanistan, but until it happens it is illogical to celebrate and say "hahaha" if it hasn't happened.


Going back to the football (soccer for you Americans) analogy, it is like an Italy fan telling a Germany fan "haha, we are world champions".

The current reality is Germany are football world champions, and that NATO is in Afghanistan.

[Bengal_Tiger]

@Bengal_Tiger

You downplay Obama as the Commander in Chief of US, but want to hype up NATO generals (who are subservient to Obama-US despite their attempts to undermine him).

The criticism he is facing for deciding on a full US withdrawal has a racial aspect to it because he is black. I do not think there would be this many attempts to undermine his authority had he been white.

As for the consolidating to an embassy presence (of under a 1000 US forces according to Obama's 2016 plan), you ought to know that Obama also claimed his Yemen policy as success, but then ended up evacuating all US forces from the US embassy in Yemen once Houthi Shiite took over.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...ures/23220185/

You've mentioned me for the third time.

I've just read this post after my reply above.

The same applies.


You can claim "victory" when the US "withdraws" from Afghanistan and not before.

[Insight]

[QUOTE]

You've mentioned me for the third time.

I've just read this post after my reply above.

Bengal_Tiger,

I thought I was on your Ignore list, so how are you replying to thread I post on? I mean this thread is one from ages ago that I have been updating with Obama's restated decisions for a full US withdrawal.

I don't mind you conversing with me on this forum, but please reply if you are constantly bringing up my name or following my posts and commenting on my threads.

The same applies.


You can claim "victory" when the US "withdraws" from Afghanistan and not before.

For your information the US has been withdrawing since July of 2011. There used to be over 100,000 US forces in Afghanistan. Right now there are less than 10,000. By the time Obama leaves office, there is assumed to some figure below 1000 US forces at the Embassy in Kabul. However, according to the original NYT article in the OP, that number may even be less. Then I explained to you this

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/02/11/yemen-embassy-closures/23220185/

When Obama says normal embassy presence, he is referring to same type of US embassy staffing that exists all over the world, in China, France, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Im not claiming any victory at all. What victory would I be claiming? Im opposed to foreign intervention. I am happy that Obama decided on a full US withdrawal thats all, and I don't hide my bias to that statement. I am opposed to foreign intervention.

It seems you on the other hand are quite disturbed by Obama's decision for a US withdrawal.

How does one undermine President Obama (Commander in Chief), and then place importance in the words of a subservient and disgruntled NATO general (who "hopes" to stay). This is the reason Obama has to keep restating his decision for a US withdrawal when a lesser general tried to undermine him, just days before.

The President of the US is the most powerful man in the Western world.

[Insight]

[QUOTE]

UnknownPrince a.k.a. Ghundal a.k.a. Lynx a.k.a Shah-i-Kot a.k.a Insight you are indeed on my ignore list, having insulted me without provocation in the past. However you have mentioned me twice in the past few minutes, so I decided to have a look at what you've said.

Bengal_tiger,

You started doing this Ghundal aka Shah-i-kot akak Lynx aka Unknownpricne aka and now here as Insight even when I was not debating you at all. As I said, I have no problem with discussing with you, but in a civil manner.


Again, if I am on your ignore list, then why are you following me around the forum and posting on threads (this thread) I bring up from ages ago? Meaning you read my posts constantly. You are still reading my posts now.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Bengal_Tiger,

I thought I was on your Ignore list, so how are you replying to thread I post on. I mean this thread is one from ages ago that I have been updating with Obama's restated decisions for a full US withdrawal.

You are.

However this thread was started by BarakzaiAbdali and the title of the thread is pretty self-explanatory.

Also today I have posted a number of threads on related topics e.g. Russian presence in Central Asia, President Ghani and his alleged warning to the Pakistanis etc.

This is just another thread that I decided to post in, which came to the top of the forum after you posted.

I know you have been gloating over a supposed US withdrawal since I can see people quoting you.

Anyway I replied after seeing you mention me not once...but two times (and now four times).

I don't mind you conversing with me on this forum, but please reply if you are constantly bringing up my name or following my posts and commenting on my threads.

This is not your thread, this thread was started by BarakzaiAbdali.

I have a policy of not participating in threads started by people on my ignore list e.g. Badlun, Shamlawar Khurasani etc.

I only mentioned you once in a thread about what "policies" your Taliban heroes have for Afghanistan.

Im not claiming any victory at all? What victory would I be claiming? I am happy that Obama decided on a full US withdrawal thats all, and I don't hide my bias to that statement. I am opposed to foreign intervention.

It seems you on the other hand are quite disturbed by it.

I am probably the most anti-American poster in the entire forum and I cover American state terrorism in different parts of the world.

I could care less about the American regime and military, but I do care about the elected government of Afghanistan who are the institution that the people of Afghanistan (or at the very least the urban people who have online access, go online virtually every Afghan in Afghanistan is anti-Taliban) have entrusted to give a better life.

Also the Taliban are an anti-Bangladeshi organization and have threatened Bangladesh before.

Also I am very familiar with Deobandism and there's no way I'd want any Muslim country to suffer being ruled by extreme Deobandism.

You can undermine President Obama (Commander in Chief), and then place importance in the words of a subservient and disgruntled NATO general (who "hopes" to stay). This is the reason Obama has to keep restating his decision for a US withdrawal when other lesser generals try to undermine him.

Obama is just a figurehead, the real power lies behind the scenes. US national interests are determined by the ruling elite and fundamentally do not change regardless of which supposed president is reading speeches to the public.

NATO wants to stay in Afghanistan.

By the way the same general is a current serving general and not a retired one. Wondered why he is so freely speaking his mind on this, rather than being concerned with publicly contradicting stated official policy?

The President of the US is the most powerful man in the Western world!

You are very naive.

Obama does not have much real power.

Real power is in the hands of others in the ruling establishment, and Obama simply has to follow orders.

Anyway even if we go by the mainstream media narrative, he is a weak, non-confrontational president whose legislation gets blocked by his own party.

Democrats defy Obama, block trade deal.


You are young and naive.

You also do not realize how racist white people are, even the ostensibly most liberal person. Someone like [MENTION=1201]Toramana[/MENTION] who I always try to show respect to as my senior and elder, has far more life experience and knows what they are like.



Since you are young and naive, you don't realize much from the picture above.

Obama is the only "black" (bi-racial) man in a room full of white people of north European extraction.

His shoulders are slouched.

He is not psychologically or physically central to the picture or room. If someone from 2000 saw this picture there's no way they'd think he was the actual "president", "commander-in-chief", "most powerful man on the planet" etc etc.

He is peripheral literally (physically) and psychologically, sitting right next to the wall.

He seems tired and almost not fully there.

Biden however is more relaxed, his shoulders and upper body are wide open.

Anyway I've taken the trouble of responding to you since you've mentioned me four times and now you are going to be restored to your default "Ignore" status.

Maybe later, or maybe even as late as 2017 (probably earlier, maybe even tomorrow who knows) I might visit this site.

All I can say is you are young and haven't really lived life, doubt you've worked with white people, been married etc.

Good luck with the future my American friend.

Thanks for the chat.

[Insight]

[QUOTE]

You are.

However this thread was started by BarakzaiAbdali and the title of the thread is pretty self-explanatory.

But that means you are reading my posts and reacting to them. If I am on your ignore list, then aside from the technical aspects, you should just ignore me as you claim.

Also today I have posted a number of threads on related topics e.g. Russian presence in Central Asia, President Ghani and his alleged warning to the Pakistanis etc.

I honestly don't pay attention to what you post, but you bring me up quite a lot my dear friend.

This is just another thread that I decided to post in, which came to the top of the forum after you posted.

I know you have been gloating over a supposed US withdrawal since I can see people quoting you.

Buddy, the US has been withdrawing since 2011. Do you even want to accept that reality? There were over 100,000 US troops, now there are less than 10,000, and by the time Obama leaves office, there will only be a normal embassy presence. This is not just the reality, it is actually happening.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1184263/obama-vows-to-withdraw-all-but-embassy-staff-from-afghanistan

Obama is actually gloating over it my friend, not me. Here is a neocon writer upset with Obama in the same way you seem to be

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/25/obama-disgraces-memorial-day-with-false-claims-of-victory/

Anyway I replied after seeing you mention me not once...but two times (and now four times).

No I mentioned you because you are following me around this forum, bringing up me up constantly on multiple threads that I don't even post on. I mean you got to be sick if you constantly claim I am on your ignore list but follow me around this forum and bring me up (Ghundal aka UnknownPrince aka Shah-i-kot aka Lynx and now Insight)

This is not your thread, this thread was started by BarakzaiAbdali.

I have a policy of not participating in threads started by people on my ignore list e.g. Badlun, Shamlawar Khurasani etc.

I only mentioned you once in a thread about what "policies" your Taliban heroes have for Afghanistan.

You have mentioned me more than once like this: Ghundal aka UnknownPrince aka Shah-i-kot aka Lynx and now Insight.

I don't even respond. Most of the time I find out because someone who actually discusses normally comments on the thread where I then notice this : Ghundal aka UnknownPrince aka Shah-i-kot aka Lynx and now Insight posted by you Bengal_tiger

I could care less about the American regime and military, but I do care about the elected government of Afghanistan who are the institution that the people of Afghanistan (or at the very least the urban people who have online access, go online virtually every Afghan in Afghanistan is anti-Taliban) have entrusted to give a better life.

A puppet Kabul regime propped up by US troops is not the legitimate representation of Afghans. Here is where you are either being intellectually dishonest or you just don't consider a US troop propped up Kabul regime regime to be illegitimate. I guess you would also consider the Diem regime in Vietnam propped up by US troops to be legitimate. If we parallel your pro-Kabul regime position here, then you would also be supporting the Diem regime in Vietnam that was also propped up by a US troop presence.

Also the Taliban are an anti-Bangladeshi organization and have threatened Bangladesh before.



Also I am very familiar with Deobandism and there's no way I'd want any Muslim country to suffer being ruled by extreme Deobandism.

I don't really care how any country in the world is ruled, as long as it does not involve foreign intervention.

It is none of my business as to what your preferences are or not. It is not your business to interfere in the beliefs of a lot of people from Afghanistan to India.

Obama is just a figurehead, the real power lies behind the scenes. US national interests are determined by the ruling elite and fundamentally do not change regardless of which supposed president is reading speeches to the public.

The problem here is the inconsistency in your thought process and the contradictions. You have used SPA signed by Obama in 2012 as validation for your statement that the US is never leaving. Yet, when Obama decides on a complete US withdrawal, you suddenly decide that he is just a figure head, and his words are meaningless (but has meaning before when he signed SPA). This contradiction indicates that you are just selective in what you want to believe in and don't want to believe. What does not seem to change with your position is that you want to believe US is staying in Afghanistan.

NATO wants to stay in Afghanistan.

They may want to stay in Afghanistan all they want, but Obama is their Commander in Chief, the most powerful man in the West, and his decision rules the day whether you like it or not.

By the way the same general is a current serving general and not a retired one. Wondered why he is so freely speaking his mind on this, rather than being concerned with publicly contradicting stated official policy?

I thought you just spoke of a ruling elite? These generals have actually been constantly trying to pressure Obama into reversing his decision for a full US withdrawal. They have aired out their grievances publicly and at hearings. McChrystal was fired because of doing the same.

If you read the original post (NYT article- the very first post ) which I believe you refuse to read, you would have known that US generals have been opposed to Obama's decision of a US withdrawal. Problem is like you and that NATO general, they can't do anything about it

You are very naive.

Obama does not have much real power.

Real power is in the hands of others in the ruling establishment, and Obama simply has to follow orders.

The facts and the neocon anger against Obama on multiple issues (US withdrawal from Afghanistan, Iran, Syria) invalidates your opinion that Obama is not the decision maker. If you were correct, then Senators McCain and Graham (two white men) would not be yelling about Obama's decision to withdraw from Afghanistan. It seems you Bengal_Tiger, know more about Obama's decision that white male NeoCon warhawk Senators McCain and Graham. What do you know that Senator McCain and Graham don't?

You are young and naive.

You also do not realize how racist white people are, even the ostensibly most liberal person. Someone like @Toramana who I always try to show respect to as my senior and elder, has far more life experience and knows what they are like.

I actually have an impression that you are a teenager because of this Ghundal aka Unknownprince aka Shah-i-kot aka Lynx and now here as Insight. For heavens sake, you place people on your Ignore list, but still read their posts!! lol

Whereas I have demonstrated the inconsistency in your statements, you have only reaffirmed to me what I am stating with regards to the US decision for a withdrawal. You place more importance in a white generals words then Obama who is the Commander in Chief, and I am curious why.

Since you are young and naive, you don't realize much from the picture above.

Obama is the only "black" (bi-racial) man in a room full of white people of north European extraction.

His shoulders are slouched.

This proves that you place more importance in white men than the black man (President Obama). I felt this was your reasoning all along.

By the way, the facts and the neocon anger against Obama on multiple issues (US withdrawal from Afghanistan, Iran, Syria) invalidates your opinion that Obama is not the decision maker. If you were correct, then Senators McCain and Graham (two white men) would not be yelling about Obama's decision to withdraw from Afghanistan. It seems you Bengal_Tiger, know more about Obama's decision that white male NeoCon warhawk Senators McCain and Graham. I guess you are now gong to say they are part of some theatrical play with Obama, and Ghani actually is pulling the strings. Tell me why are McCain and Graham (two white men) so angry about Obama's decision for a US withdrawal from Afghanistan if they knew the "real elite powers" who control everything had assured them! Oh I guess they don't know about those elites being white Republican Senators.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/gop-sens-obamas-afghanistan-withdrawal-a-monumental-mistake/

He is not psychologically or physically central to the picture or room. If someone from 2000 saw this picture there's no way they'd think he was the actual "president", "commander-in-chief", "most powerful man on the planet" etc etc.

I was trying to get this comment out of you! It validates my conclusion about your reasons for dismissing Obama's decision for a full US withdrawal.

He is peripheral literally (physically) and psychologically, sitting right next to the wall.

He seems tired and almost not fully there.

Biden however is more relaxed, his shoulders and upper body are wide open.

Anyway I've taken the trouble of responding to you since you've mentioned me four times and now you are going to be restored to your default "Ignore" status.

LOL at this post where you downgrade Obama and uplift Biden and all the other white people in the picture. Obama is the physically fittest person in that room. The US general is overweight. Just so you don't get confused, I find Obama's foreign policy to be faulty, but with regards to his decision for the US withdrawal, I commend it.

Aren't you embarrassed of yourself after writing this racist garbage? How did you know all the white people are of North European "extraction?" LOL @ "extraction" >>>>>

Since you are young and naive, you don't realize much from the picture above.

Obama is the only "black" (bi-racial) man in a room full of white people of north European extraction.

His shoulders are slouched.

Maybe later, or maybe even as late as 2017 (probably earlier, maybe even tomorrow who knows) I might visit this site.

You will be back because you are looking 24/7 it seems.

LOL @ this whole post. Racism! To sum it up, you are saying Obama is not powerful because he is black. Now this is the actual reason why you refuse to believe Obama's decision for a full US withdrawal (I had an idea this was it), and place more authority in that of a disgruntled white US/NATO general who only "hopes." That explains everything.

[Insight]

Just to briefly address this below since the previous post is too long and people may not read it.

Here below Bengal_Tiger explains his reasons for dismissing Obama's decision for a US exit from Afghanistan and placing more importance in the statements (not decisions) of white US/NATO generals. In short, Bengal_tiger is saying that Obama has no authority because he is black, and that the white people in the room (of the picture he posted) are more physically prominent than Obama who he describes as slouched and tired but Biden as relaxed lol. The racist garbage is self explanatory! My main response is below this.

Obama is just a figurehead, the real power lies behind the scenes. US national interests are determined by the ruling elite and fundamentally do not change regardless of which supposed president is reading speeches to the public.





You are very naive.

Obama does not have much real power.

Real power is in the hands of others in the ruling establishment, and Obama simply has to follow orders.


You are young and naive.

Since you are young and naive, you don't realize much from the picture above.

Obama is the only "black" (bi-racial) man in a room full of white people of north European extraction.

His shoulders are slouched.

He is not psychologically or physically central to the picture or room. If someone from 2000 saw this picture there's no way they'd think he was the actual "president", "commander-in-chief", "most powerful man on the planet" etc etc.

He is peripheral literally (physically) and psychologically, sitting right next to the wall.

He seems tired and almost not fully there.

Biden however is more relaxed, his shoulders and upper body are wide open.

Anyway I've taken the trouble of responding to you since you've mentioned me four times and now you are going to be restored to your default "Ignore" status.

Maybe later, or maybe even as late as 2017 (probably earlier, maybe even tomorrow who knows) I might visit this site.

All I can say is you are young and haven't really lived life, doubt you've worked with white people, been married etc.

Good luck with the future my American friend.

Thanks for the chat.

This proves that you place more importance in white men than the black man (President Obama). I felt this was your reasoning all along.

By the way, the facts and the neocon anger against Obama on multiple issues (US withdrawal from Afghanistan, Iran, Syria) invalidates your opinion that Obama is not the decision maker. If you were correct, then Senators McCain and Graham (two white men) would not be yelling about Obama's decision to withdraw from Afghanistan. It seems you Bengal_Tiger, know more about Obama's decision that white male NeoCon warhawk Senators McCain and Graham. I guess you are now gong to say they are part of some theatrical play with Obama, and Ghani actually is pulling the strings. Tell me why are McCain and Graham (two white men) so angry about Obama's decision for a US withdrawal from Afghanistan if they knew the "real elite powers" who control everything had assured them! Oh I guess they don't know about those elites being white Republican Senators.

http://freebeacon.com/national-secur...ental-mistake/

[Kushan Prince]

[MENTION=18674]Insight[/MENTION]

Do you really think America is ever going to leave? If you really think that then you are naive, Obama indeed is just a puppet, his actions still have to get approved by congress for them to pass. There will be US soliders left behind once Obama leaves and a plan for an army base there. Did you even research on that or did you miss that part?

[Insight]

@Insight

Do you really think America is ever going to leave? If you really think that then you are naive, Obama indeed is just a puppet, his actions still have to get approved by congress for them to pass. There will be US soliders left behind once Obama leaves and a plan for an army base there. Did you even research on that or did you miss that part?

Kushan Prince,

It does not matter what I or you think. What matters are the facts. Obama's decision for a US withdrawal from Afghanistan is an executive decision that can not be undone by Congress or Senate (unlike a treaty which needs to be voted on).

I never disputed the SPA when it was signed by Obama in 2012 with puppet Karzai, something Bengal_Tiger used as evidence US is never leaving. Yet, now this same Bengal_Tiger (like you) is saying Obama is just a figure head, and his decision for a full US withdrawal means nothing LOL. He then further states that it is because Obama is black, that is why we should suddenly not place authority in his decisions. Classic cherry picking which is quite entertaining!!!

You should ask Senator John McCain and Senator Graham why they are so upset with Obama's decision for a US withdrawal. For us to find credibility in your belief that the US is not leaving Afghanistan requires that we disregard the beliefs and grievances of two major Republican, neocon War Hawk Senators who are opposed to Obama's decision on a full US withdrawal, and that is something I am unwilling to do.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/gop-sens-obamas-afghanistan-withdrawal-a-monumental-mistake/

Senators' McCain, Graham, and Ayotte's statement opposing the President's decision of US withdrawal

“The president’s decision to set an arbitrary date for the full withdrawal of U.S. troops in Afghanistan is a monumental mistake and a triumph of politics over strategy,” the senators said. “This is a short-sighted decision that will make it harder to end the war in Afghanistan responsibly.”
Withdrawing from Afghanistan could also hurt U.S. credibility on the global stage, according to the senators:

The president came into office wanting to end the wars he inherited. But wars do not end just because politicians say so. The president appears to have learned nothing from the damage done by his previous withdrawal announcements in Afghanistan and his disastrous decision to withdraw all U.S. forces from Iraq. Today’s announcement will embolden our enemies and discourage our partners in Afghanistan and the region. And regardless of anything the president says tomorrow at West Point, his decision on Afghanistan will fuel the growing perception worldwide that America is unreliable, distracted, and unwilling to lead.