Afghan versus Pashtun Identity

[Toramana]

This is an important issue because Pashtuns have been referred to by three names. Indians have given them the name "Pathan" and Persians "Afghans" while Pashtuns prefer to be called with the name "Pashtuns". While the appelation "Afghan" is as much a misnomer as "Pathan", it has some advocates amongst Pashtuns, especially from Afghanistan. They argue that "Afghan" is a historical name of Pashtuns and is politically the right choice for Pashtuns as well as other inhabitants of Afghanistan. I have the following reservations about the name "Afghans".

(1) Afghan is an alien name that Persians gave to Pashtuns.
(2) It overshadows the true Pashtun identity and makes Pashtuns leave cultural and political space to non-Pashtuns at the cost of their own culture and interests.
(3) The name "Afghan" has less historical antiquity compared to the name "Pashtun".
(4) The name "Afghan" has not as much consciously or subconsciously been accepted and internalized by Pashtuns as the name "Pashtun" has been. I have seldom heard Pashtuns calling themselves Afghans while talking to each other.
(5) The word "Pashtun" has linguistic and psychological connection to the language i.e., Pashto Pashtuns speak and the way of life i.e., Pashtunwali they practice. The word Afghan on the other hand has no connection to these two pillars of Pashtun identity and, therefore, leaves a void between Pashtuns and their roots.

Comments please.

[eyeliner]

well before the creation of afghanistan, it was aryana and when ahmad shah baba came he created an afghanistan, which has always been associated with pashtuns, as everyone associates the two, even farsiwaan have accepted that afghan is synonymous with pashtun. And just because the constitution made afghan a citizenship does not change the fact that it is also and ethnic group. For e.g. the term iranic peoples which pashtuns are by race does not make them iranian. so i don't think that afghan is a misnomer, whereas pathan is a misnomer because it was an anglo imposed word, which indians attached to people who they attached negative assumptions with and its accepted that pathan is a derogatory term.

[Nick]

Afghan means Pashtun and Pashtun means Afghan. We can't drop the word Afghan since a lot of our culture and history is associated with it.

How is it an alien name Toramana?

Because they only believe in what shias says in their prospective book Iranica that it was Persians who nicknamed "Pashtuns" as Afghan. Also according to Iranica, Pashtuns are Iranic people, lol a word Iranic another anti-Afghan word to associate everybody to "Iran". which only Iranica created during its rise of Pan-Iranism in 1995-2005, that Pashtuns are Iranic. LOL imagine if Pakistanis create Pakistanic LOL Aside from Iranic there are other Bul**** created by Iranica and wikipedia such as Persianic, Iranian Race, Persian Race, Parsistan, Iran-e-Bozurg etc.

Don't Worry Jasmine its very childish to believe in Iranica, there is no Iranian race, nor Persian race, nor Pashtun race, nor Iranic and nor did the word Afghan came from Persians. These are all propaganda for the fact that non-one knew what Pashtun means until 14th century. The word that was created in 14th Century has no messed people so much that they think that the word "Afghan" is not as old as the word "Pashtun". The Idea lol is same as what Iranian always idiotically claimed that Persian was oldest language and that today's persian is rooted with Dairus. LOL the fact that if he was alive or even Sassanian king Ardashir was alive would from all of Sherizi's book not be able to understand a single sentence.

The word Afghan is not alien since I have mentioned many time in other topics I am not going to repeat. If they have any solid prove other then Shia Books then we would like to hear. But from local prospective specially in the last few centuries Pashtun nationalism has been so supportive in modern Media, that it wants to conquer Afghan nationalism. A project supported by CIA and ISI of destroying Afghanistan and curse on Pashtun Identity, and unity with Indic Pakistan is the whole mission.
So everybody Talks and not aware of identifying historical or political prospective.

[amna.]

Salam Nick.
I knew a professor from Kabul University and he also had told me that Afghan is a word the local Persians started labelling us. If you don't mind and I will appreciate it can you clear up this big confusion for us all?

should I proudly say I am an Afghan is what Toramana said wrong?

[єѕαρχαι]

I dont think pashtuns have anything to do with Iranians.
Pashtuns are a lost tribe of israel and I still see some customs which exist among pashtuns . I prefer to be called as pashtun. Thats my separate identity as tajiks and other non pashtuns also call themselves afghans.

[amna.]

Sher Khan how many times does someone has to explain you the concept of Afghan being an ethnicty vs Nationality?

If your son is born in Russia does he become Russian by ethnicity?ethnicity? Afghans is an alternative word for Pashtuns and it's also a nationality. You can be a proud Pakistani but your ethnicity is Afghan.

[Nokia_Apridy]

BILHOL AO MA KA SA FARK SHTA /?

hahaha dar kha

NA AFUC__AN NA ARAB AO NE PERANG SHWAM
PA TAIR WAKHT DA KHPLAY JANAY ARMAN RAGHLU..

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Persians did not give the name Afghans to Pashtuns. Its origins (much like the word Pashtuns) are unknown....some scholars even consider that the word Pashtun is a cognate of Parsawa, so in that instance it can be considered to be in line with Persian.
I don't agree with the premise of vs as Pashtuns are like other identity markers like Russian, German, etc which have dual names or dual purposes. In my opinion this is a fundamentally flawed position.

Sher Khan the israelite theory is a myth. Pashto is an Iranian(Iranic) language. Now before Nokia comes in with his general qrrathae, Iranian is an ethno-linguistic term and has little to do with the country Iran. Pashtuns three major contributors to their identity were the Scythians, Hepthalites and Tocharian-Kushans. However like many nations, other people contributed to their ethnic make up, so in our case there is a likelihood of turks, indo-aryans, Greeks, Arabs who joined the fold through the thousands of years.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Sher Khan how many times does someone has to explain you the concept of Afghan being an ethnicty vs Nationality?

If your son is born in Russia does he become Russian by ethnicity?ethnicity? Afghans is an alternative word for Pashtuns and it's also a nationality. You can be a proud Pakistani but your ethnicity is Afghan.

Amna Sher Khan flip flops depending on the time and day. You can bring back in time and prove it to him, but he will still go back to his old jive talk. You have basically answered the question. There should be no need to have such a "vs" thread, both are our identities.

[Toramana]

Toramana yes it's an alien name but we have kept it for a long time and it has a lot to do with our identity and poetry.

So does the name "Pathan", then why discard one and pick another? The point is, it is not the native name for Pashtuns and has little linguistic connection to the language and way of life of Pashtuns. It is applied to a wide range of ethnicities inhabiting Afghanistan and thus no more and no longer represents Pashtuns.

it connects us with our land Afghanistan which means(land of Pashtuns).

Wrong: Afghan doesn't mean a "Pashtun" only. To an outsider, an Afghan can be any one from Afghanistan be him/her a Tajak, Uzbak, or Hazara.

[Toramana]

well before the creation of afghanistan, it was aryana and when ahmad shah baba came he created an afghanistan, which has always been associated with pashtuns, as everyone associates the two, even farsiwaan have accepted that afghan is synonymous with pashtun.

Historically, yes the name "Afghan" has been associated with Pashtuns but talking of the present times, it can mean anyone from the different ethnic groups of Afghanistan.

And just because the constitution made afghan a citizenship does not change the fact that it is also and ethnic group. For e.g. the term iranic peoples which pashtuns are by race does not make them iranian.

As much Iranic has lost its specificity by being associated with an ethno-cultural group, so much has the name "Afghan" by meaning the citizenship of Afghanistan. Whatever may be the initial intenetions to derive the name of the land from the name of the people, it has lost its link with the group that it was used for.

so i don't think that afghan is a misnomer, whereas pathan is a misnomer because it was an anglo imposed word, which indians attached to people who they attached negative assumptions with and its accepted that pathan is a derogatory term.

The word "Afghan" is misnomer in the sense that it doesn't mean Pashtuns exclusively and specifically. Rather, the word "Pathan" irrespective of whether it had positive or negative connotations initially, is more specific and exclusive (it means only Pashtuns) and deserves a higher place as for a second name for Pashtuns is concerned.

[Toramana]

Persians did not give the name Afghans to Pashtuns. Its origins (much like the word Pashtuns) are unknown....some scholars even consider that the word Pashtun is a cognate of Parsawa, so in that instance it can be considered to be in line with Persian.
I don't agree with the premise of vs as Pashtuns are like other identity markers like Russian, German, etc which have dual names or dual purposes. In my opinion this is a fundamentally flawed position.

Foreigners or Pashtuns under foreign influence have used the word "Afghan" for themselves. Till recent times, other ethnic groups of Afghanistan, Central Asia, and Iran, especially Persians, referred to Pashtuns by the name "Afghan". Medieval Arab, Chinese, and Persian sources called Pashtuns "Afghans". Another speculation is, the word is derived from Sanskrit's "Asvagan". In short, there is no evidence that shows "Afghan" is a native name for Pashtuns.

If there is any purpose in retaining the name "Afghan" as an ethnic as well as political term, it is to exclude all Pashtuns to the east of Durand Line whereas include all non-Pashttuns north of Hindukush under the label "Afghan".

Pashtuns three major contributors to their identity were the Scythians, Hepthalites and Tocharian-Kushans. However like many nations, other people contributed to their ethnic make up, so in our case there is a likelihood of turks, indo-aryans, Greeks, Arabs who joined the fold through the thousands of years.

What about Bactrians?

[PakistaniWazir]

afghanis r calld afghanis

pakistanis r calld pakistanis

afghanis does nt mean pashtun becoz hazara and tajiki r classed afghanis

afghanis should stay away from pakistan because majority of afghanis r uneducated trouble makers and pakistan should put big fench on border to prevent majjar afghanis from entering pakistani soil

whereever afghanis go they bring uncivilised habits with them, in peshawer everyday afghanis steal sell drugs and produce trouble on peaceful citizens of pakistan

[Khan]

^ And Pakistanis have decended from heaven? how thoughtful of you.

[Toramana]

afghanis r calld afghanis

pakistanis r calld pakistanis

afghanis does nt mean pashtun becoz hazara and tajiki r classed afghanis

afghanis should stay away from pakistan because majority of afghanis r uneducated trouble makers and pakistan should put big fench on border to prevent majjar afghanis from entering pakistani soil

whereever afghanis go they bring uncivilised habits with them, in peshawer everyday afghanis steal sell drugs and produce trouble on peaceful citizens of pakistan

Pa khair pa khair from Chai Khana, so you ultimately found your roots, that you are not an Amar Khel but a Wazir haan. Have you visited your hometown i.e., Rawalpindi recently?