Ahmad Shah Masood's Racial Views

[RevolutionThroughReason]

All you're doing is denying the source on a TANGENTIAL issue. this doesn't change that evidence exists that there was attempts at supporting the Taliban. Your heroes were willing to prostitute themselves to The invader.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

The Americans never paids Taliban any money nor did they give them any money.
.

denial is not just a river in Egypt

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I am no fan of Talibans, but what he said is true. People shouldn't involve emotions in factual matters. We shouldn't go around and change historical facts just because we dislike Talibans.

Do you really believe that or you don't like the idea of Pashtuns being affiliated with imperialism?

[khushal]

All you're doing is denying the source on a TANGENTIAL issue. this doesn't change that evidence exists that there was attempts at supporting the Taliban. Your heroes were willing to prostitute themselves to The invader.

no its not tangential issue. The fact is that people are out there are creating conspiracy theories and you getting angry because I'm poking holes in your sources.


All you guys have presented is a possible motive for US support but the fact is there is no evidence. Just because there is motive does not make it fact.

[khushal]

Do you really believe that or you don't like the idea of Pashtuns being affiliated with imperialism?

What imperialism. There is no evidence of this.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

What imperialism. There is no evidence of this.

No there is, you're just making irrelevant excuses for it right now. DENIAL of evidence is not the same as lacking evidence. You're denying evidence.

[Khostai]

During the talibans regime, the books that were used to teach young kids how to read were made in USA, that wa written behind the cover "made in USA".

I know how all of your wahabist try to portray taliban as some kind of holy warriors, but in fact they are nothing more that psycho criminal gang, the same like that of MAssoud only filled with Pashtuns who got the training in Pakistan. with the help of USA and Saudi dolar money.

[Kochagasht]

i'm not sure i follow

[vinyard80]

How did they support them? Did they give them money, weapons? intelligence gathering equipment, training, logistic support, satalite coordinates of enemy locations?

What kind of support did they give them?

Please provide evidence.

Since I am not a CIA agent I can not provide to you exact data but I think has been proved how USA allowed talibans to take over with his allies support, Pakistan and Arabia Saudi. Anyway I came across this interesting articled from The Guardian. Check it out:


US Gave Silent Backing To
Taliban Rise To Power
By Phillip Knightley
The Guardian
10-8-1

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Afghanistan's Taliban regime, now bracing for punitive US military strikes, was brought to power with Washington's silent blessing as it dallied in an abortive new "Great Game" in central Asia.

Keen to see Afghanistan under strong central rule to allow a US-led group to build a multi-billion-dollar oil and gas pipeline, Washington urged key allies Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to back the militia's bid for power in 1996, analysts said.

But it was soon forced to abandon its brief and shadowy flirtation with the Islamic purists, who US officials now say are unfit to rule, as the militia began imposing its brutal version of Islamic law, sparking a violent outcry from US women's groups.

While the United States has denied supporting the Taliban's rise, experts say that at the time they seized the capital five years ago, Washington saw the militia as a strange but potentially stabilizing force.

"Now, years on, the US has to cope with the damage for which it is partially responsible starting with its role during and after the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan," said Radha Kumar of the Council on Foreign Relations in New York.

Ahmed Rashid, a leading author and expert on Afghan affairs, said it was "clear" Washington, which armed and trained the Afghan mujahedin during their battle against Soviet invaders in the 1980s, indirectly supported the Taliban.

"The United States encouraged Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to support the Taliban, certainly right up to their advance on Kabul" on September 26, 1996, he said from his base in Lahore, Pakistan. "That seems very ironic now."

One key reason for US interest in the Taliban was a 4.5-billion-dollar oil and gas pipeline that a US-led oil consortium planned to build across war-ravaged Afghanistan.

The California-based Unocal Corp. in 1996 hatched plans to stretch the pipeline from the central Asian state of Turkmenistan to Pakistan and the United States and the oil consortium wanted most of Afghanistan to be under the stable control of one government to ensure the pipeline's security, the analysts said.

In the months before the Taliban took power, former US assistant secretary of state for South Asia Robin Raphel waged an intense round of shuttle diplomacy between the powers with possible stakes in the project.

"Robin Raphel was the face of the Unocal pipeline," said an official of the former Afghan government who was present at some of the meetings with her.

The Unocal consortium also included Saudi-based Delta Oil, Pakistan's Crescent Group and Gazprom of Russia.

The project was to start with a two-billion-dollar, 890-kilometer (556-mile) gas pipeline that would channel 1.9 billion cubic feet of gas to Pakistan each day.

In addition to tapping new sources of energy, the move also suited a major US strategic aim in the region: isolating its nemesis Iran and stifling a frequently-mooted rival pipeline project backed by Tehran, experts said.

"This was part of what I call a new great game between Russia, the United States, China, Iran and European companies for control of the new oil and gas resources that have been discovered," Rashid said. A dangerous game for influence in Afghanistan was played in the 19th century by Britain and Russia, at a strategic crossroads between South Asia and Czarist Russia.

The Unocal consortium feared there could be no pipeline as long as Afghanistan, battered by war since the Soviet withdrawal in 1989, was split among rival warlords. The Taliban, whose rise to power owed much to their bid to stamp out the drugs trade and install law and order, seemed attractive to Washington.

"It thought the Taliban might be a stabilizing factor if they controlled 90 percent of the country," said the CFR's Kumar.

When the Taliban rolled into Kabul, Washington appeared initially enthusiastic amid signs it would consider recognising the new regime.

The top US diplomat in Pakistan planned a visit to Kabul just days after it was captured by the Taliban and a State Department official expressed hope that the Taliban would "move quickly to restore order and security."

But Washington cancelled the diplomat's trip as protests against the Taliban's treatment of women erupted in the United States, news reports said at the time. Unocal withdrew from the pipeline consortium two years later.

[khushal]

+^^Saudi did not need any pushing to support the Taliban, they would have supported any anti shia force. Their main aim was to contain Iran. The Saudis were against the toplling
And everyone know that Pakistan certainly does not need any pushing to support the Taliban. They are even doing it today even though the US is begging them not to. To Pakistan, the main goal is to curtail India.

Ahmed Rashid is a moron. Bhutto and Musharaf have publically told many Journalists that the US left Afghanistan alone and Pakistan had to deal with the after affects of the Soviet War.

But who cares, Tajiks cant rule Afghanistan, that is a fact and its not because they are weak or stupid, its because of their geographic location.

[khushal]

No there is, you're just making irrelevant excuses for it right now. DENIAL of evidence is not the same as lacking evidence. You're denying evidence.

There is no evidence. South Asia was ruled by Pashtuns longer than the brits ruled it and their was no forcing people to pashtunify like anglos have anglofied the subcontinent. Look at the Tajiks in Afghanistan, they have been under Pashtuns for 250+ years and they have kept their language and culture and then look at the tajiks in Tajikistan, it just took 70 years for Russia to Russify them.

[Loy Afghanistan]

There is no evidence. South Asia was ruled by Pashtuns longer than the brits ruled it and their was no forcing people to pashtunify like anglos have anglofied the subcontinent. Look at the Tajiks in Afghanistan, they have been under Pashtuns for 250+ years and they have kept their language and culture and then look at the tajiks in Tajikistan, it just took 70 years for Russia to Russify them.

This is NO NEWS. We are the most civilized people on earth. Just read about Pashtunwali, you will never on earth find more beautiful way to live your life. With justice and no discrimination towards outsiders. But foreigners are wild barbaric, they like to test Pashtun patients, when they see Pashtuns wrath, they piss themselves and write poets like. "May God keep you away from the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger, and the revenge of the Pashtuns/Afghans."

[randolph85]

Just politics, bro. Right now USA claims that there at war on terror. But who is backing taliban? Whats their ideology? Arabia Saudi and Wahabism. USA knows very well who is behind taliban but they need them. USA needs talibans.

War on terror is a joke. USA hates islamic terrorism but they brought them to power in libia and they wanna do same thing in Syria. Its all a dirty game.




The United States supported the Taliban through its allies in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia between 1994 and 1996 because Washington viewed the Taliban as anti-Iranian, anti-Shia and pro-Western.[274] Washington furthermore hoped that the Taliban would support development planned by the U.S.-based oil company Unocal.[275] For example, it made no comment when the Taliban captured Herat in 1995, and expelled thousands of girls from schools;[276] the Taliban began killing unarmed civilians, targeting ethnic groups (primarily Hazaras), and restricting the rights of women.[182] In late 1997, American Secretary of State Madeleine Albright began to distance the U.S. from the Taliban. The next year, the American-based oil company Unocal withdrew from negotiations on pipeline construction from Central Asia.[277]
One day before the capture of Mazar, bin Laden affiliates bombed two U.S. embassies in Africa, killing 224 and wounding 4,500, mostly Africans. The U.S. responded by launching cruise missiles on suspected terrorist camps in Afghanistan, killing over 20 though failing to kill bin Laden or even many Al-Qaeda. Mullah Omar condemned the missile attack and American President Bill Clinton.[278] Saudi Arabia expelled the Taliban envoy in protest over the refusal to turn over bin Laden, and after Mullah Omar allegedly insulted the Saudi royal family.[279] In mid-October the U.N. Security Council voted unanimously to ban commercial aircraft flights to and from Afghanistan, and freeze its bank accounts worldwide.[280]


Rashid 2000, p. 176.
Rashid 2000, pp. 175–8.
Rashid 2000, p. 177.
"US pledges support for Afghan oil pipeline if Taliban makes peace". BBC News. 1997-12-10. Retrieved 2010-04-09.
Reuters, "Taliban blame Clinton scam for attacks", 1998-08-2
Rashid 2000, pp. 138, 231.
Rashid 2000, p. 78.

these countries have the own interests while still selling their souls to the west for money and/or protection. its no different than what pakistan is doing today in that the leaders will sell their mothers for money but still have cards under their sleeves which don't align with US interests.

your article says the US supported the taliban, but how? financial? there is no evidence of that and in fact, not recognizing the country would lead to the UN not recognizing the country and naturally the rest of the world. this would basically guarantee that the nation would never progress economically or socially and remain isolated even if the taliban completely defeated the NA.

so when you say its just politics as if the US had to pretend to be anti taliban back when no one cared about the country for years and no one knew who the taliban were, its ridiculous.

[randolph85]

This is NO NEWS. We are the most civilized people on earth. Just read about Pashtunwali, you will never on earth find more beautiful way to live your life. With justice and no discrimination towards outsiders. But foreigners are wild barbaric, they like to test Pashtun patients, when they see Pashtuns wrath, they piss themselves and write poets like. "May God keep you away from the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger, and the revenge of the Pashtuns/Afghans."

selling daughters, blood feuds, but hey at least we don't discriminate against outsiders lol

[Azmal]

Dear readers, maybe some of you lack of understanding Dari or maybe you hadn´t listen to this speech but the title and introduction of the thread-starter mislead the readers. However, he doesn´t where insult Pashtuns. He tells about the history of Afghanistan and the social problems, the diversity and that every corner of Afghanistan is populated by people who once came from outside, be it Farsiwans, Pashtuns, Hazaras or Uzbeks. He says that the downfall of Afghanistan started not for 20 or 30years ago but abit more than 100years ago when Hazara lands were invaded and the history of the country was re-written and faked by a new elite with the appearing of Nadir Khan who was endorsing ethnic racism like Pashtuns vs non-Pashtuns. He says every invader that settled in the region could not hold the region without the support of the native or earlier population who formed throughout history the government, court, the dominating culture and language, marrying into the native population etc. The kings may have been invaders but their governments, armies and administratives and the people behind their thrones, ears and eyes were natives. Without natives they could not survive and could not establish themselves. He speaks about the role of Hazaras, the Farsiwans, Pashtuns and other people and modern states how they were formed. He says that Pshtuns who came to Kabul accepted the native Kabuli language and culture of the people became ''educated'' and ''civilised'' unlike those who stayed in south or FATA Wziristan or tribal region of Afgahnistan and so on. He further says that the first communists were taught in the two prominent Pashtun schools of Kabul, one lycee Khushal Khan Baba and the other in Lycee Rahman Baba from where people like Tanai or Amin hailed. He also mentions how Afghanistan was formed and devided by Angriz and Russians. He no where insult anyone except the earlier leaderships who missed to establish a country with fair social atmosphere, equality among the different tribes and instead promoted a one-side ideology which not only failed but also at the end destroyed Afghanistan and still is existing to destroy our country again by using the Pashtun card but not in favour of Pashtun nation but in favour of their own family. He accuses Sardar Mohammad Daud Khan that he challenged Pakistan over Pashtunistan issue and ignored some facts that those Pashtuns in Pakistan are loyal to their own country than to Afghanistan which provoked Pakistan to destroy Afghanistan and create insurgents.

It´s stupid and false to accuse him of racism. In such meetings commanders from all ethnic background came together. How could Mr Massoud have been a racist when 1/3 of his forces were consisting of Pashtuns? He was not only right he even said that if Afghanistan in the next decades don´t get into a new system Pakistan will be able to annex it or to cut it into pieces and if we don´t overcome our pseudo believes of superiority more civil wars, more deaths and more exodus will be our future.

Funny a Flat headed Amu Jumper—grandson of a Bokhari refuges talks about history, civilization and language of Afghanistan...you speak language of Fars, you are ruled by Awghans and Uzbak/Turk for over 1000 years and never in history you will find a single Tazi king or ruler! While the real damage/dangerous to Pashtun identity comes from Sons of Ranjit sings but make no mistake these Amu Jumpers are no friend and must be put in their places. If step son of Pashtun---Abullah2X win then Pashtun will wish for Karzia area!