What do Afghans Want in Life (for their Nation)?

[bottlecan]

Hello members of pashtunforums,

I have been following the warfare/geopolitics in the af-pak region since a long time. I have a few question to ask the serious members on this board - trolls please stay away.

1) What do pashtuns want from their nation? Afghanistans place in the world?
2) What is your idea of the nation state of afghanistan? future?
3) Do you support the taliban because of non-pashtuns(ethnic politics) or because you desire an islamic state(political islam)?
4) Do you see the non-pashtuns as a part of afghanistan?

And finally

5) Afghanistan will soon be under a pashtun backed taliban rule. How do pashtuns living in non-islamic countries reconcile with this idea? Is your ethno-nationalism supreme over other possibilities?

[DSM0305]

1) What do pashtuns want from their nation? Afghanistans place in the world?

Pashtuns and any other nation wants to achieve so much it possibly can.

2) What is your idea of the nation state of afghanistan? future

You have to specified this question

3) Do you support the taliban because of non-pashtuns(ethnic politics) or because you desire an islamic state(political islam)?

Most people support Taliban because of their non-discriminating mentality. Their political view may be bad and less productive, but they as people are kind. They got laws, if you follow them, you be left alone and if you don't you'll face the consequences. One can discuss whether the laws are good, but most important thing about them is that they got principles.

4) Do you see the non-pashtuns as a part of afghanistan

I do, but not people who are fascist. For me it is how the person feel. If he sees himself as a proud Afghan and don't look at himself as an ethnicity, then he is not just part of Afghanistan, but a guardian of Afghanistan.

One cannot see somebody as part of Afghanistan, if he himself doesn't see himself as part of the nation. Good example would be the people in the parliament, they wanted to have ethnicity in the Afghan pass. How can anybody see person like them as part of Afghanistan, if they feel the need to have an ethnicity written in their pass. One can question how Afghan they feel, when they think Afghan doesn't identify them...

And finally

5) Afghanistan will soon be under a pashtun backed taliban rule. How do pashtuns living in non-islamic countries reconcile with this idea? Is your ethno-nationalism supreme over other possibilities?

This is just your assumptions, unless you have some evidence to back it up...
It is clearly that you're a non-Pashtun and it is common amongst non-pashtun to think Taliban is a Pashtun movement, but we must realize a problem if we want to solve it. Taliban is an Islamic movement and back in the days many Tajiks were part of it. Taliban even had many Islamic movement from Tajikistan and Uzbekistan as their allies. So looking at Taliban as a Pashtun movement is wrong, and wrong thinking will prevent problems to be solved.

The best option for Afghanistan will be for Taliban to be part of the current government, so we can finally have peace. The people of Afghanistan both from North and South are in generally very religious, so even if Taliban becomes part of the government it wont change much, beside the fact that there will be peace.

[bottlecan]

6) What are your opinions about "afghanistan in the 21st century"?

7) Afghanistans internal and external warfares have made it a forgotten country in the globalised world around it as it missed out on every revolution(agriculture, manufacturing, computing, science and medicine etc) in the history and progress of a nation state. Under taliban rule, it is unlikely for afghanistan to incorporate itself in the world around it. How important are these to afghans? Do they consciously understand the meaning of their decisions?

8) How significant is social development for the pashtuns? Is pluralism/secularism too alien for the average afghan individual?

[Badlun]

Hello members of pashtunforums,

I have been following the warfare/geopolitics in the af-pak region since a long time. I have a few question to ask the serious members on this board - trolls please stay away.

1) What do pashtuns want from their nation? Afghanistans place in the world?
2) What is your idea of the nation state of afghanistan? future?
3) Do you support the taliban because of non-pashtuns(ethnic politics) or because you desire an islamic state(political islam)?
4) Do you see the non-pashtuns as a part of afghanistan?

And finally

5) Afghanistan will soon be under a pashtun backed taliban rule. How do pashtuns living in non-islamic countries reconcile with this idea? Is your ethno-nationalism supreme over other possibilities?

Good questions. Such discussions are good to reach proper conclusions. I agree what DSM said above that peace should be the ultimate priority but I have some observations in this regard.

1. Pashtuns when not influenced by Mullah want peace, wealth, culture, music, dance, prosperity, business, agriculture and decent life. Proof is the pre-1979 Pashtunland of both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Mullah was restricted to mosque and Pashtun society was mostly secular as hujra and jumat were two different institutions. Problem is Mullah not Pashtun.

If dominated by Mullah then Afghanistan will be another somalia for coming decades. If Mullah is sent back to mosque then Afghanistan will be a great country with respect in the comity of nations.

2. If Mullah is out then ideas like Sharia, Caliphate, Umma, trans-nationalism, Pan Islamism etc will be out too and Afghanistan will be a nation state like Switzerland with both Pashtuns and non Pashtun citizens. If Mullah domiantes then Osama like Arab will be also the citizen of Afghanistan and an Afghan like Dr. Najeeb will be hung.

3. Those who support Taliban because of ethnicity are wrong. It is a fact that Pashto had a prominent place during Taliban rule but if Afghanistan caters for Pashto along with Dari then people will not want Taliban for Pashtun nationalism. Tajiks should accept the due status of Pashto wholeheartedly and may not talk of Khurasan. If Pashto and Pashtuns are proportionately represented in Afghanistan, Taliban will be abandoned by Pahstuns being their representatives.

4. Non Pashtuns if citizens of Afghanistan are definitely part of Afghanistan. How can you cut the 40 to 50 % polulation of a country? Afghanistan has a majority of Pashtuns but it is not a pure Pashtun state. It is Afghanistan not Pashtunistan. In practical terms now Pashtun is not the same as Afghan.

5. Afghanistan can never be under Taliban rule for a longer period. Taliban are anti-life elements and are not acceptable to majority of Afghans as well as international community. Taliban can survive in caves, mountains, lawless tribal areas but not in Kabul or Islamaabd.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

1. Pashtuns when not influenced by Mullah want peace, wealth, culture, music, dance, prosperity, business, agriculture and decent life. Proof is the pre-1979 Pashtunland of both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Mullah was restricted to mosque and Pashtun society was mostly secular as hujra and jumat were two different institutions. Problem is Mullah not Pashtun.

This is false, Pre-1979 Tajik and Minorities started working with Pakistan to topple Muhammad Daud because of his chants for reunited Pashtunistan was feared to lead to demographic overbalance of Pashtuns and this dangered minority interests.

If Mullah is sent back to mosque then Afghanistan will be a great country with respect in the comity of nations.

No "comity" of nations has ever respected Afghanistan, Afghanistan was seen as an object for international interests mainly by Europeans. Russia for example ordered the Asssasination of Muhammad Daud, despite Afghanistan being sovereign and secular during Muhammad Daud's time.

2. If Mullah is out then ideas like Sharia, Caliphate, Umma, trans-nationalism, Pan Islamism etc will be out too and Afghanistan will be a nation state like Switzerland with both Pashtuns and non Pashtun citizens. If Mullah domiantes then Osama like Arab will be also the citizen of Afghanistan and an Afghan like Dr. Najeeb will be hung.

Dr. Najib was hanged because of his crimes against Afghans, he assisted Russian paramoiotary to commit rapes of Afghan women and wiping out entire Afghan villages and families. As well as complicit with the deaths of 1.5 Million Afghans. Shari'ah, Caliphate and Ummah, Trans-Nationalism/Pan Islam exists in Afghanistan because Afghans are predominantly Muslim. Look at Turkey, they got rid of Mullahs and now their Government are Ikhwan Al Muslimeen Pan Islam never leaves as long as there is a Qur'an

3. Those who support Taliban because of ethnicity are wrong. It is a fact that Pashto had a prominent place during Taliban rule but if Afghanistan caters for Pashto along with Dari then people will not want Taliban for Pashtun nationalism. Tajiks should accept the due status of Pashto wholeheartedly and may not talk of Khurasan. If Pashto and Pashtuns are proportionately represented in Afghanistan, Taliban will be abandoned by Pahstuns being their representatives.

Sometimes Taliban play Pashtun card to gain support, sometimes they portray themselves as for all Afghan people. They're politicians who will use deception just like Nationalists and others.

4. Non Pashtuns if citizens of Afghanistan are definitely part of Afghanistan. How can you cut the 40 to 50 % polulation of a country? Afghanistan has a majority of Pashtuns but it is not a pure Pashtun state. It is Afghanistan not Pashtunistan. In practical terms now Pashtun is not the same as Afghan.

That's what Muhammad Daud was planning to do before 1979; as you were praising earlier.

Afghanistan can never be under Taliban rule for a longer period. Taliban are anti-life elements and are not acceptable to majority of Afghans as well as international community. Taliban can survive in caves, mountains, lawless tribal areas but not in Kabul or Islamaabd.

Which basically describes most of Afghanistan, unfortuinately

[Khostai]

1) What do pashtuns want from their nation? Afghanistans place in the world?

To be just a stable and peacefull nation like any other, I and majority of Pashtuns don't have any super power aspirations...

2) What is your idea of the nation state of afghanistan? future?

Secular Democratic, with only Pashtu as national language the other can be taught at school, but like English or French are taught in European school, every othe subject must be in Pashtu.

3) Do you support the taliban because of non-pashtuns(ethnic politics) or because you desire an islamic state(political islam)?

I don't support them, the non pashtun ethnic politics can be ended by pashtuns who are educated and are not total nut jobs like taliboons.

4) Do you see the non-pashtuns as a part of afghanistan?

Yes we have no choice, we can't remove half of the population.



5) Afghanistan will soon be under a pashtun backed taliban rule. How do pashtuns living in non-islamic countries reconcile with this idea? Is your ethno-nationalism supreme over other possibilities?

There is a chance that Taliban can take the rule, but there is no other choice actualy, its either taliban or pedo NA and it warlords, both are bad, but I hear from people that taliban are chnaged now, and are not extreme as they used to be, if that is true tha I would actualy not mind them coming to power.

[bottlecan]

Thank you for the replies

I understand that both sides blame each other of treason.

The pashtuns accuse the non-pashtuns of supporting outside armies. Similarly, the non-pashtuns accuse the pashtuns of supporting the pakistanis.

How do you guys think this will end?

[HalloIsBack]

centcom?

[randolph85]

centcom?

probably

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Good questions. Such discussions are good to reach proper conclusions. I agree what DSM said above that peace should be the ultimate priority but I have some observations in this regard.

1. Pashtuns when not influenced by Mullah want peace, wealth, culture, music, dance, prosperity, business, agriculture and decent life. Proof is the pre-1979 Pashtunland of both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Mullah was restricted to mosque and Pashtun society was mostly secular as hujra and jumat were two different institutions. Problem is Mullah not Pashtun.

If dominated by Mullah then Afghanistan will be another somalia for coming decades. If Mullah is sent back to mosque then Afghanistan will be a great country with respect in the comity of nations.

2. If Mullah is out then ideas like Sharia, Caliphate, Umma, trans-nationalism, Pan Islamism etc will be out too and Afghanistan will be a nation state like Switzerland with both Pashtuns and non Pashtun citizens. If Mullah domiantes then Osama like Arab will be also the citizen of Afghanistan and an Afghan like Dr. Najeeb will be hung.

3. Those who support Taliban because of ethnicity are wrong. It is a fact that Pashto had a prominent place during Taliban rule but if Afghanistan caters for Pashto along with Dari then people will not want Taliban for Pashtun nationalism. Tajiks should accept the due status of Pashto wholeheartedly and may not talk of Khurasan. If Pashto and Pashtuns are proportionately represented in Afghanistan, Taliban will be abandoned by Pahstuns being their representatives.

4. Non Pashtuns if citizens of Afghanistan are definitely part of Afghanistan. How can you cut the 40 to 50 % polulation of a country? Afghanistan has a majority of Pashtuns but it is not a pure Pashtun state. It is Afghanistan not Pashtunistan. In practical terms now Pashtun is not the same as Afghan.

5. Afghanistan can never be under Taliban rule for a longer period. Taliban are anti-life elements and are not acceptable to majority of Afghans as well as international community. Taliban can survive in caves, mountains, lawless tribal areas but not in Kabul or Islamaabd.

I agree about the part that Mullah indeed are not only behind the destruction of pashtuns but whole of the muslim world.They are responsible for spreading this extremism into Muslim youth.