KPK Pashtun Nationalism VS Afghanistan Pashtun Nationalism

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Bismillah

As Salaamu 3alaykum,

I tried to ask Nationalists why they hate each other and fight each other on this forum. Nobody gave me an answer. So I am going to say what I think the real reason is for your hostilities.

Nationalism/tribalism is an ideology where you don't need to be sophisticated or educated to believe in. All you need is to deny you have any problems of yourself and blame all your failures and miseries on others. Aside from this, nationalism/tribalism is centered around loyalty towards your own group and hostility against all others.

The question here is, how do you define your own group? How do you qualify who is part of your group and who is not? When there are no clear cut definitions, and when there are so many conflicting views and ideas floating around, people tend to look for easy and simple demarcation. This is why you see Pashtuns from KPK insulting and attacking Pashtuns from Afghanistan.

While both agree that Pakistan is bad and Punjabis are their common enemies, thye still hate each other as well. Similarly, while both groups agree that Tajiks and other minorities in Afghanistan are evil, they still occasionally insult and attack each other.

This is because despite how much you claim to disbelieve in the Durrand line, your behavior on PF exposes you. You're not only a faithful believer in partition of Pashtuns into two seperate nations, you also have loyalty and disavowal based on this division.
So in reality you Nationalists are fooling yourselves. Admit it, you have accepted the Durand line and you don't consider those living on the other side of the Durrand line as your own.

If we examine you even further, we find that you even have hostilities towards Pashtuns from your own side. Take Toramana's regular attacks against her/his fellow KPK pashtuns of other tribes and backgrounds.

This is how I observe and analyse your behavior. If you think I am wrong, disprove me.

[MostafaM]

What´s "nationalism" if it accept the Pakistani national framework and propagates Pakhtun rights just to gather voters for an election but is a collaborater on a bigger scale to exterminate Pakhtun/Afghan identity by integrating liguistically, culturally and historically into an entity like Pakistan?

Get your facts right:
there is no nationalism on either side.

Fighting or propagating unity based on language, history and culture is not nationalism because there is no "Pakhtun/Afghan nation" per definition of the word.

We don´t live in middle Europe of the 19th century and your use of terminology and implied socio-political language to describe Pakhtuns/Afghans is crooked.

[vinyard80]

Nationalism/tribalism is an ideology where you don't need to be sophisticated or educated to believe in. All you need is to deny you have any problems of yourself and blame all your failures and miseries on others. Aside from this, nationalism/tribalism is centered around loyalty towards your own group and hostility against all others.

Unlike nationalism wahabism is for sophisticated and educated people.

You are a joke dude. Nationalism and religious fanaticism both are two sides of the same coin. Wahabism use to blame everything on kaffirs and loyalty only belongs to a pan-arabic god and his sick/munafiq/radical followers.

[Shah-i-Kot]

Please consider the term nationalism in the first place, and then one realizes this debate stands on no ground.

Nationalism is a belief, creed, or ideology that involves an individual identifying or becoming attached to one's nation. (Wikipedia).

Supporting a US/NATO war in Afghanistan that is solely focused on Pashtuns on both sides does not amount to being a "nationalist" in any capacity. The Chinese peasants who fought and defeated the British in the Opium wars were nationalists, not the drug lords who cooperated with the British.

The people you label as Pashtun "nationalist" are no nationalists at all but a complete insult to the very term. Asfandyar, Hoti, Achakzai, Sherpao supports drone strikes on FATA (permitted by Pakistan army), supports Pak military operations in FATA/KP, and supports the US/NATO war in Afghanistan that runs on Pakistani NATO supply lines (Along with Pak military, Sherpao makes money from NATO supplies too). Are these Nationalists? History has no record of nationalists supporting a foreign war in their nation.

[Kushan Prince]

Nationalism and Tribalism are not the same thing so don't put a dash between them again. You have to keep in mind that this is the internet and people can say anything they want. They are practically releasing their minds tensions on Afghan pashtuns because of anger and racism they face by being called "ghulams of british" or slaves of pakistan. Its nothing more than self defence. Also take into consideration that this is the internet, anyone can be anyone like posing as a Pashtun trying to create fitna among Pashtuns on both sides of the border.

And you have overused the word "Nationalism" quite enough dude, look we get it you hate them, but no need to open a damm thread about it every second! Oh and Toramana is not a Pashtun but a Paracha.

[DSM0305]

I think people need to understand that there exist many forms of nationalism. From my perspective everyone is somehow a nationalist.

If you look at the definition of a nation. It itself have very broad meaning and there isn't a concrete definition of it. Since there is different definition of nation, it also means there will exist different forms of nationalism.

I personally also define an extreme religious person as a nationalist as well.

The reason there is fighting between nationalist from Pakistan and Afghanistan is because of meaningless insults. You may ask why there is insults, that must have something to do with politics.
Other reason could be:
- Somebody who posing as Pashtuns (basically trying to escalate a conflict)
- Some may not think things through and for every action, there is a reaction.
- Could be because of emotions or personal stuff.
- Politics! People nowadays underestimate politic way to much.
- Some may even do it for fun, just to get a reaction.

And there is probably many more reasons as well.

[gadoonwal]

pasthun should work together for unity and should stop this blame game east and west.
They will sufer more and more with hands of others if stay divided .
We are far behind others in this region.We have to accept our mistakes.
I have never seen baluch,sindi,tajik sucide bombers but only pashtuns.
Is this not our fault?
First we should work for peace in afghanistan and pashtunkhwa.
Expose the enemy of afghanistan and pashtuns .
Build strong economy for afghanistan and people to people relation of both sides.
Unite all pashtuns in pakistan with provincail autonomy and rights over sources and the next step the emerging of both sides into one greater afghanistan or pashtunistan.
Once afghanistan get peace,strong economy and army then this so called durand will not be there.
untill then pashtuns of both side should help eachother.

[tor_khan]

Bismillah

As Salaamu 3alaykum,

I tried to ask Nationalists why they hate each other and fight each other on this forum. Nobody gave me an answer. So I am going to say what I think the real reason is for your hostilities.

Nationalism/tribalism is an ideology where you don't need to be sophisticated or educated to believe in. All you need is to deny you have any problems of yourself and blame all your failures and miseries on others. Aside from this, nationalism/tribalism is centered around loyalty towards your own group and hostility against all others.

The question here is, how do you define your own group? How do you qualify who is part of your group and who is not? When there are no clear cut definitions, and when there are so many conflicting views and ideas floating around, people tend to look for easy and simple demarcation. This is why you see Pashtuns from KPK insulting and attacking Pashtuns from Afghanistan.

While both agree that Pakistan is bad and Punjabis are their common enemies, thye still hate each other as well. Similarly, while both groups agree that Tajiks and other minorities in Afghanistan are evil, they still occasionally insult and attack each other.

This is because despite how much you claim to disbelieve in the Durrand line, your behavior on PF exposes you. You're not only a faithful believer in partition of Pashtuns into two seperate nations, you also have loyalty and disavowal based on this division.
So in reality you Nationalists are fooling yourselves. Admit it, you have accepted the Durand line and you don't consider those living on the other side of the Durrand line as your own.

If we examine you even further, we find that you even have hostilities towards Pashtuns from your own side. Take Toramana's regular attacks against her/his fellow KPK pashtuns of other tribes and backgrounds.

This is how I observe and analyse your behavior. If you think I am wrong, disprove me.

W/Salaam.

Recent history will tell us that Pashtuns have not positively exploited the opportunity of working together for their own greater good, but that doesn't mean that we should reject this as a valuable thing to do.

Fundametally Pashtuns should be wise to the political agendas of others around us. That does not equal having an ill equation with other ethnic groups; it is more about recognising that others will use you to further their own interests. I may not like it, but I have learned that this is the reality. At the end of the day Melmastiya has its limits - we shouldn't let others walk all over us.

Islam most certainly has been used by political wolves in sheeps clothing as a way to mask other intentions. Pakistan is the prime example, but they are not on their own. It is wise to not accept everyone (many Muslims included who are willing to suck your blood dry) as your friend for life. As for the type of 'nationalist' that expects Pashtuns to put Islam to one side completely - then they are mistaken. But so too are Pashtuns who do not differentiate between blind/rote observance and understanding of Islam. Between the two there is a considerable space which most Pashtuns find themselves in. They are the majority.

Pakistan exists for the same reason that Afghanistan exists or Bangladesh or Iraq. These lands have boundaries that were handed over by colonial powers and are only meaningful if you have accepted the pressures our forefathers were put under. Philosophically, I reject that type of enslavement and therefore I don't care for those boundaries and I do not need to debate Pashtuns in Afghanistan vs Pashtuns in Pakistan. We are part of a common ethno-linguisit/cultural continuum and should be free to define our own administration and borders.

The ground realities in Pakistan may not support this, but of course the Pakistan education system continues to peddle its own myths and if being educated makes someone a 'Nationalist', then education can also make people pretty dangerous. Once you get beyond the stage where you believe the ideas broadcast in the Pakistani media or what is printed in their school texts, it is easy to see why a split Pashtunkhwa feels like a colony is someone else's backyard.

Pashtuns can go round in circles blaming each other but we do this by ignoring the historical facts that were forced upon us. We can question how Persianised, Arabised* or Indianised Pashtuns across Lar and Bar are. That only explains part of it. The real problem is that we were politically and economically divided to weaken us. It was part of the great game. We can choose to play along with others and remain exploited or put our own house in order by being just that bit more Pashtun-centric. You may call it nationalism, but I have no issue with latter.

*Arabic already has an important status amongst Muslims, and is studies across the Muslim world, but unlike you Shamlawar, I do not propose making Arabic the national language of all Muslim lands.

[gadoonwal]

تور خانه چَرته لاړ وي؟
دَ اختر مياشت درنه جوړه شوه

[Bost Bastan News]

Bismillah

As Salaamu 3alaykum,

I tried to ask Nationalists why they hate each other and fight each other on this forum. Nobody gave me an answer. So I am going to say what I think the real reason is for your hostilities.

Nationalism/tribalism is an ideology where you don't need to be sophisticated or educated to believe in. All you need is to deny you have any problems of yourself and blame all your failures and miseries on others. Aside from this, nationalism/tribalism is centered around loyalty towards your own group and hostility against all others.

The question here is, how do you define your own group? How do you qualify who is part of your group and who is not? When there are no clear cut definitions, and when there are so many conflicting views and ideas floating around, people tend to look for easy and simple demarcation. This is why you see Pashtuns from KPK insulting and attacking Pashtuns from Afghanistan.

While both agree that Pakistan is bad and Punjabis are their common enemies, thye still hate each other as well. Similarly, while both groups agree that Tajiks and other minorities in Afghanistan are evil, they still occasionally insult and attack each other.

This is because despite how much you claim to disbelieve in the Durrand line, your behavior on PF exposes you. You're not only a faithful believer in partition of Pashtuns into two seperate nations, you also have loyalty and disavowal based on this division.
So in reality you Nationalists are fooling yourselves. Admit it, you have accepted the Durand line and you don't consider those living on the other side of the Durrand line as your own.

If we examine you even further, we find that you even have hostilities towards Pashtuns from your own side. Take Toramana's regular attacks against her/his fellow KPK pashtuns of other tribes and backgrounds.

This is how I observe and analyse your behavior. If you think I am wrong, disprove me.

What´s about Islamists like yourself who can be described as islamo-fascists? The general problem with Pashtun nationalists is that they claim to be Muslims, communists, secularists, democrates but promote nationalism. Unlike Khushal for me tribalism and nationalism is the same. Anyone who fool himself by differenciate tribalism from nationalism should bring up the differences. You can´t be a Muslim, democrat, secularists, communist and ethno-nationalist at the same time. It´s natural that a democrat can´t live with a fundamentalist or a communist. Insulting results from that fact. In general nationalists are actually weak people. They are frustrated, inside their skin there is a full hatred toward everyone. They are socially isolated people, hated and ignored by many people in their own society. These people are blind and make other people or tribes guilty for their own short-comings. How can a terrorist from Panjab expect that the civlised population will accept him and his fellows and not kill them? Not the civilised people are guilty for the death of the terrorist but the terrorist himself. I always wonder why we are nationalistic when we don´t have anything or proven we are better than other people.