can AFG survive economically without USA?

[DSM0305]

you are using a strawman fallacy here DSM. But begging the Brits, america and russia for Aid is not the way to go about for the contribution they made for the suffering of afghans. The right way to go about it is first stand on your feet and sue them for compensation. Take back what is rightfully yours the right way. Puppet governments are beggers not plaintifs. plaintifs represent their people, puppet governments represent their creators and sell their people.

So basically you want Americans to leave and stop billions of $ support.

Afterward Afghanistan comes in civil war.

There be no central government.

Women gets raped. Children kidnapped, mistreated and killed. Afghan men get killed and tortured.

Afghanistan get divided into at least 5 pieces.

And each and every of these 5 pieces would live in poverty, corruption, no infrastructure and still be in war against the other parts of Afghanistan.



You can label whatever you want to call the Afghan government, but it wont change the reality. USA is giving aid to hundreds of countries and none of them is labeled ''beggar''. You are, what you yourself call/label as. Even the most independence country could be called ''beggar'', if they themselves label as such.

No offense, but people like you are the reason why Afghanistan today is so backward and have hard time to catch up to the rest of the world. Your view on the world is weird and hypocritical. Every nation in some point of time received some sort of aid/support and have become successful. Today no one labels them as ''beggars''. The ''beggar'' phenomenon is apparently only applying to Afghanistan. Apparently for Afghans only Afghanistan can become ''beggar''.

I miss good old days, when receiving something was called good deal and excellent leadership, instead of ''beggar''.

[khushal]

You are using too many logical fallacies here, but I will still respond.

So basically you want Americans to leave and stop billions of $ support.

Afterward Afghanistan comes in civil war.

There be no central government.

Women gets raped. Children kidnapped, mistreated and killed. Afghan men get killed and tortured.

what you describe is happening as we speak.

Afghanistan get divided into at least 5 pieces.

And each and every of these 5 pieces would live in poverty, corruption, no infrastructure and still be in war against the other parts of Afghanistan.

remember the taliban unified the country. the people in power today were the ones that had it in 5 pieces. these same people will rob whatever aid afghanistan receives.

No offense, but people like you are the reason why Afghanistan today is so backward and have hard time to catch up to the rest of the world. Your view on the world is weird and hypocritical. Every nation in some point of time received some sort of aid/support and have become successful. Today no one labels them as ''beggars''. The ''beggar'' phenomenon is apparently only applying to Afghanistan. Apparently for Afghans only Afghanistan can become ''beggar''.

I miss good old days, when receiving something was called good deal and excellent leadership, instead of ''beggar''.

no offense but your acting like a pimp who is on the street telling a woman that prostition is good work and a good deal and the US is the john while your kind is the middle man who sells his own to make a little money. The afghans are better than your kind.

[DSM0305]

You are using too many logical fallacies here, but I will still respond.

Enlighten me. What I wrote, how can it be categorized as logical fallacies.

what you describe is happening as we speak.

It does? Tell me brother, do you live in Afghanistan or is it just your assumption.

remember the taliban unified the country. the people in power today were the ones that had it in 5 pieces. these same people will rob whatever aid afghanistan receives.

Taliban didn't unified the country, they literally overpowered it. If any other warlord overpowered the country in the same way, the result would have been exactly the same.

no offense but your acting like a pimp who is on the street telling a woman that prostition is good work and a good deal and the US is the john while your kind is the middle man who sells his own to make a little money. The afghans are better than your kind.

So basically you compare Afghanistan to a prostitute. That tells a little more about you, than me. Don't you agree?

[khushal]

^^your responding inside the quote. respond out side them so I can respond to each point. I will number them for now.

1. they are logical fallacies because I never said anything those things you claimed.

2. Are you claiming that there is no civil war as we speak, there are no women being raped, children being kidnapped, raped and killed, men are not being tortured. I did not know you lived in a fantasy world.

3. The taliban did not over power the country. the country welcomed them. They only faced resistance in mazar and panjshir. the rest of the country was taken by them without a fight.

4. no Im not comparing afghanistan to a prostitute, if it was one we would not be seeing resistance. but you are acting as though it was one and you hate the resistance for not abiding to your wish and call it backwards when in reality the backward thinkers like yourself think bending over is progress.

[DSM0305]

^^your responding inside the quote. respond out side them so I can respond to each point. I will number them for now.

1. they are logical fallacies because I never said anything those things you claimed.

2. Are you claiming that there is no civil war as we speak, there are no women being raped, children being kidnapped, raped and killed, men are not being tortured. I did not know you lived in a fantasy world.

3. The taliban did not over power the country. the country welcomed them. They only faced resistance in mazar and panjshir. the rest of the country was taken by them without a fight.

4. no Im not comparing afghanistan to a prostitute, if it was one we would not be seeing resistance. but you are acting as though it was one and you hate the resistance for not abiding to your wish and call it backwards when in reality the backward thinkers like yourself think bending over is progress.

1. And what exactly did I claim that cant be refereed to what you said? And by the way, by that logic you have done far more ''logical fallacies'' than me.

2. You avoided my question. Do you live in Afghanistan? Have you lived in Afghanistan under Taliban rule, did you live in Afghanistan under the civil war between warlords? You need to understand the level of violence instead of what it is labeled.

3. Are you serious? You need to read a book. mazar and panjir was the only place they didn't conqueror. Later on they manage to conqueror mazar as well. You need to learn the difference between not conquering something and ''welcoming''. These two things have complete different meaning, so I am kinda surprise you manage to get it wrong.

4. You have lost all credibility by comparing a countries affair with issues like prostitution. Prostitution is when you have sex for money, simple as that, and country is a piece of land owned by the people who lives there. These two are completely different things and works in complete different bases. One cant go around and compare complete different thing to each other, it simply makes you look stupid and lose credibility.

[khushal]

3. Are you serious? You need to read a book. mazar and panjir was the only place they didn't conqueror. Later on they manage to conqueror mazar as well. You need to learn the difference between not conquering something and ''welcoming''. These two things have complete different meaning, so I am kinda surprise you manage to get it wrong.

nope, there was no resistance as you can see.
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/usa/Taliban.htm

Their military campaign had rapid successes and in the first three months, they captured 12 out of the 36 regions of Afghanistan. These campaigns involved little hard fighting, as commanders simply switched sides after lucrative arrangements with the Taliban had been hammered out.

By September 1996, the Rabbani regime had also left Kabul without any resistance and the Taliban militia had assumed power in Afghanistan. The Taliban by that time were controlling 27 provinces of Afghanistan, and the remaining three in the north were under the control of Uzbek-warlord Abdur Rashid Dostum. As a result of their many military successes, the Taliban’s ranks had swelled over from a mere 2,500 to over 30,000 cadres.

4. You have lost all credibility by comparing a countries affair with issues like prostitution. Prostitution is when you have sex for money, simple as that, and country is a piece of land owned by the people who lives there. These two are completely different things and works in complete different bases. One cant go around and compare complete different thing to each other, it simply makes you look stupid and lose credibility.

Its exactly like prostitution. Your the kind of person who would take money and allow foreign soldiers break in doors to your house and do as they please in the name of fighting terrorism. When you give immunity to such a thing, in Pashto, you would be labeled as a bainamos, baighyrat. So in essence what your doing is selling the idea of baighrati, the idea of bainamosi to Pashtuns. Its hard to sell that idea to Pashtuns.
If your trying to be like Americans, then start thinking like Americans. Americans would never sell their sovereignty for any amount of money. Forget about sovereignty, Americans wont even sell the management of ports.
America's ports and Dubai: Trouble on the waterfront | The Economist

[Zazai]

salaam again,

one more thing:

i read a report saying everything's gone expensive in AFG...merely by DELAYING the BSA:

Even a delay in signing is dangerous, Dobbins warned.

“There will be a cost to delaying, and the cost will be borne by the Afghan people,” Dobbins said. He pointed to the falling value of the Afghan currency, rising inflation, declining property values and capital flight, and attributed all of it to anxiety caused by Karzai’s delay.

“The longer this goes on, the worse the uncertainty will get,” Dobbins said.

so , how r people gonna cope with expensive bread, vegetables, fuel, etc, other daily expenses, if prices double or triple??

can any of you guys give an example of a country that recovered from a situation like AFG without foreign help?

[Khostai]

salaam again,

one more thing:

i read a report saying everything's gone expensive in AFG...merely by DELAYING the BSA:

Even a delay in signing is dangerous, Dobbins warned.

“There will be a cost to delaying, and the cost will be borne by the Afghan people,” Dobbins said. He pointed to the falling value of the Afghan currency, rising inflation, declining property values and capital flight, and attributed all of it to anxiety caused by Karzai’s delay.

“The longer this goes on, the worse the uncertainty will get,” Dobbins said.

so , how r people gonna cope with expensive bread, vegetables, fuel, etc, other daily expenses, if prices double or triple??

can any of you guys give an example of a country that recovered from a situation like AFG without foreign help?

There is no country that could recover, even Japan with its educated people with no militias or what so ever signed an agreement with USA, after WWII, and this people here think that they can manage on there own. They are just out of touch with reality, thinking that by praing to Allah, Allah will grow factories out of the ground and everyone will be happy lol.

They want the same static situation that Afghanistan had after the ousting of Amanullah, when everything was frozen in time, that is there future for Afghanistan, they want to live in developed west, and once a while coming to Afghanistan on vacation like a tourist. Thats there ideal situation.

[Al-Afghani]

salaam again,

one more thing:

i read a report saying everything's gone expensive in AFG...merely by DELAYING the BSA:

Even a delay in signing is dangerous, Dobbins warned.

“There will be a cost to delaying, and the cost will be borne by the Afghan people,” Dobbins said. He pointed to the falling value of the Afghan currency, rising inflation, declining property values and capital flight, and attributed all of it to anxiety caused by Karzai’s delay.

“The longer this goes on, the worse the uncertainty will get,” Dobbins said.

so , how r people gonna cope with expensive bread, vegetables, fuel, etc, other daily expenses, if prices double or triple??

can any of you guys give an example of a country that recovered from a situation like AFG without foreign help?

Without foreign aid, we can't pay for flour, wheat, oil. There is the possibility of a famine.

It is impossible for Afghanistan to develop a middle class, and generate wealth. Afghanistan has never been self sufficient in any matter, historically we relied on taxes, gold and food collected from Punjab. Then we managed to extract benefits from others, like the Soviet Union and America.

Countries like ours had big empires in the past, but are now reduced to nothing. The Arabs would be in a similar state as us, if they weren't colonized and had no oil.

[ډګروال]

Without foreign aid, we can't pay for flour, wheat, oil. There is the possibility of a famine.

It is impossible for Afghanistan to develop a middle class, and generate wealth. Afghanistan has never been self sufficient in any matter, historically we relied on taxes, gold and food collected from Punjab. Then we managed to extract benefits from others, like the Soviet Union and America.

Countries like ours had big empires in the past, but are now reduced to nothing. The Arabs would be in a similar state as us, if they weren't colonized and had no oil.

what do me we?

you tajokistan bstrd
go back to your tajikam .com

[khushal]

salaam again,

one more thing:

i read a report saying everything's gone expensive in AFG...merely by DELAYING the BSA:

Even a delay in signing is dangerous, Dobbins warned.

“There will be a cost to delaying, and the cost will be borne by the Afghan people,” Dobbins said. He pointed to the falling value of the Afghan currency, rising inflation, declining property values and capital flight, and attributed all of it to anxiety caused by Karzai’s delay.

“The longer this goes on, the worse the uncertainty will get,” Dobbins said.

so , how r people gonna cope with expensive bread, vegetables, fuel, etc, other daily expenses, if prices double or triple??

can any of you guys give an example of a country that recovered from a situation like AFG without foreign help?

The afghan economy is artificial. The US cant keep it going forever and its unethical for US tax payers to foot the bill. The only solution is for the region to reorganize itself. Afghanistan has much potential. Its strategic territory where the historic silk road passes through. Its between resource rich central Asia and Resource hungary India which is a huge market for those resources. The real problem is the Pakistani feudal leaders who are keeping the whole region in a hell hole. All Karzai is doing is trying to create another Pakistan and we all know we don't need another Pakistan.

[DSM0305]

nope, there was no resistance as you can see.
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/usa/Taliban.htm

Do you have an education? This site is less reliable than wikipedia. You like a 10 year old who thinks that any random link is something factual.

Its exactly like prostitution. Your the kind of person who would take money and allow foreign soldiers break in doors to your house and do as they please in the name of fighting terrorism. When you give immunity to such a thing, in Pashto, you would be labeled as a bainamos, baighyrat. So in essence what your doing is selling the idea of baighrati, the idea of bainamosi to Pashtuns. Its hard to sell that idea to Pashtuns.
If your trying to be like Americans, then start thinking like Americans. Americans would never sell their sovereignty for any amount of money. Forget about sovereignty, Americans wont even sell the management of ports.
America's ports and Dubai: Trouble on the waterfront | The Economist

Dude you live in a western country and probably also born there. I bet you never seen a Taliban ever in your life.
Living in western countries and have everything served for you, but for Afghanistan you want them to starve to death, yet you got the nerve to call others beghairat and benaamus. In Afghanistan you will be a beghairat and a coward by definition. The day you start living in Afghanistan, is the day you will be taken seriously. Right now you show nothing but how cowardly a person you are.

[ډګروال]

Do you have an education? This site is less reliable than wikipedia. You like a 10 year old who thinks that any random link is something factual.







Dude you live in a western country and probably also born there. I bet you never seen a Taliban ever in your life.
Living in western countries and have everything served for you, but for Afghanistan you want them to starve to death, yet you got the nerve to call others beghairat and benaamus. In Afghanistan you will be a beghairat and a coward by definition. The day you start living in Afghanistan, is the day you will be taken seriously. Right now you show nothing but how cowardly a person you are.

thats not true


khushal is totally right ,i just been to AFG and no one supports what you are saying here.
even people working in the gov and army dont support what you claim.
Khushal is not coward, even though he lives in west he still respects and defends the opinion of common Afghans and doesnt misrepresent them as you do.

[DSM0305]

thats not true


khushal is totally right ,i just been to AFG and no one supports what you are saying here.
even people working in the gov and army dont support what you claim.
Khushal is not coward, even though he lives in west he still respects and defends the opinion of common Afghans and doesnt misrepresent them as you do.

You went into Afghanistan for a vacation and started to interview thirty million Afghans. The result was no one supported my opinion/claim.

Do you even know what my opinion and claim is?

[ډګروال]

You went into Afghanistan for a vacation and started to interview thirty million Afghans. The result was no one supported my opinion/claim.

Do you even know what my opinion and claim is?

your opinion is if we are agianst foreign occupation of afghanistan we are somehow against the livelihood of Afghans.

what is your point?

i went around enough places and if i didnt hear a single person favouring occupation or signing the agreement means that what you are claiming simply a foereign view.