can AFG survive economically without USA?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

And he has found a good audience with Wowra. Don't know what mutual interest or commonality tie both to each other.

Good looks, brain power, and common sense.

[Wowra]

And he has found a good audience with Wowra. Don't know what mutual interest or commonality tie both to each other.

Common sense. Love of Afghanistan. Disapproval of western influence in the region. Defiance.

I thought it was rather evident, but there it's spelled out.

[Toramana]

In summary Toramana you still lack the reasoning needed for leadership and solid evidence based science or argument. I think you should stick to the losing politics of ANP where the Parachas find refuge.

You can impress and convince some Akhwanism-addicted horris-dreaming youngsters but not those that want a realistic plan and vision. Now tell us how can Afghans settle their issues internally and why couldn't that be done under the reign of the one-eyed Mullah? Do you have any clear-cut plan?

Can you tell us how would things logically proceed and events unfold in the absence of any external support against the march of barbarism and keeping in view the present set of conditions? Don't you think ordinary Afghan would be the victim in war of attrition between the two sides and the suffering can return in a more macabre form for even a more prolonged period?

Although I know as long as the Akhwani utopia is fulfilled suffering of ordinary Afghans doesn't bother the likes of you much.

[Toramana]

Common sense. Love of Afghanistan. Disapproval of western influence in the region. Defiance.

I thought it was rather evident, but there it's spelled out.

Who wouldn't love all those things yet the choice is between perpetual anarchy and a society crystallized in time and a state of march onward with past left behind.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

You can impress and convince some Akhwanism-addicted horris-dreaming youngsters but not those that want a realistic plan and vision. Now tell us how can Afghans settle their issues internally and why couldn't that be done under the reign of the one-eyed Mullah? Do you have any clear-cut plan?

Quit asking stupid questions and making non objective comparisons. You have 39 of the world's nations and the full might of the imperium trying to "reconstruct" Afghanistan, and according to Qayyuma Karzai (purposefully feminized his name) they are doing it poorly after a decade and a half. Yet they can barely bring a fraction of the order and security a rag tag one eyed mullah bought to the country side. How scientific is that comparison you wind bag? If 39 nations had given him all the aid do you think it would be winding up buying Karzai a $300 green chapan and filling his retarded brothers' bellies and lining up wedding events? Learn to ask questions that make sense. The initial demand of any nation should be complete autonomy and then allowing the natives to settle their differences internally and also removing the regional paradigms in place to pursue a south-central asian unity of some sort that pools resources and controls them

Can you tell us how would things logically proceed and events unfold in the absence of any external support against the march of barbarism and keeping in view the present set of conditions? Don't you think ordinary Afghan would be the victim in war of attrition between the two sides and the suffering can return in a more macabre form for even a more prolonged period?

That is like asking: Is it better for a woman to sell her body and just get some low level STDs than to pursue the hard route and try to find dignity even if it be the harder way. Maybe you are a watan faroshi whiskey drinking atheist - the rest of the Afghans far prefer their indigenous mores and cultures which remained intact despite your fabricated wahabi assault on their indigenous values

Although I know as long as the Akhwani utopia is fulfilled suffering of ordinary Afghans doesn't bother the likes of you much.

And we know your faux humanism doesnt extend to understanding history, its lessons, your own people and their mores and memes, or to the fact hat you are abusing your privileges as a guest in Canada by sending Canadians to die in your stead. On the one hand you claim to be a liberosecular worldly person who dignifies all races but then view Canadias as pawns in your sick fantasy of killing Pashtuns off that are not in line with Paracha Politics. I await the day you become a man and go to the frontlines to find Mullah Omar and take him on personally to try and end him. Until then halt the hypocrasy

x

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Who wouldn't love all those things yet the choice is between perpetual anarchy and a society crystallized in time and a state of march onward with past left behind.

You should become vacuum salesman. Your line could be "your house will remain unclean and cockroach infested unless you buy my product and you will be paralyzed etc etc etc." All drivel and a false dichotomy that once again ignores historical facts, precedent, and the antecedent history of all great powers.

[Toramana]

x

Why don't you return to Afghanistan and enjoy your freedom and uphold your dignity as a hardcore Akhwani Islamist while eating gross under Mullah Omar's reign instead of that life of indignity coupled with forced or pretended loyalty to the infidel country you think is humiliating Islam?

Come. Give us a demonstration of the dignity you are talking about.

[Wowra]

Who wouldn't love all those things yet the choice is between perpetual anarchy and a society crystallized in time and a state of march onward with past left behind.

I forgot humbleness. BA and I are also very humble.

Anarchy cannot be perpetual Reliance upon the foundations of tribalism and its innate tryst with Islam is the basis of understanding for the majority of Afghanistan, but it's consistently undermined by Kabulis that hold the mentality as "backward" and overwritten by bad policy. Such policy is reinforced by idiotic "advisors" that understand disgustingly little about Afghanistan for having occupied it for over a decade.

You think what is happening is not anarchy? In some places, the only resonance of Karzai is a district center that stands alone as a bunkered island in sea of white flags. The Taliban laughs at it saying they only allow it to exist so they can get their taskiras. Is that government? Or is the government in such a region the governance that supercedes it? It must not be so bad--I've seen a Hazara in such a place. If anarchy is the absence of government, what is governance when it fills the void?

[Toramana]

The best course for Afghanistan would be to enter into security and economic agreements with all powers regional or extra-regional, consolidate the state power/authority, enhance its effectiveness and legitimacy by delivering security and services to a larger chunk of the population, build an economic base to sustain a reasonable military force, and gradually enervate the militant movement through soft and hard power of the state in the medium-long run.

نور د بارکزی په شان خلق هسې بس بادۍ

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Why don't you return to Afghanistan and enjoy your freedom and uphold your dignity as a hardcore Akhwani Islamist while eating gross under Mullah Omar's reign instead of that life of indignity coupled with forced or pretended loyalty to the infidel country you think is humiliating Islam?

Come. Give us a demonstration of the dignity you are talking about.

Rather clearly the logic you espouse shows that the connections left between your remaining two brain cells is slowly fizzling out. Lets think it through:

1) It is you that is asking Afghans to accept a foreign fighting force barging down their doors and asking them to trade immunity off, not me.

2) It is you that cheers on the attacks in KPK that killed Nabeela's grandmother, not I

3) It is you that holds ridiculous three person protests in Canada to cheer on Canadian armed forces into a conflict they are pressured to take part in, not I.

4) It is you that is asking Afghans to live under the yolk of Abdurrazzaq, not I

5) It is your mentally retarded and sadistic clown view that everyone else should fight your conflicts for you, not I.

So instead it is YOU that should be getting up of your adiposity laden buttock, burning some of the calories off that waistline and gearing up to build the Pashtun dream you claim your people dream - the secular militant utopia where the whiskey flows like water, etc etc. So go over there already and ask Tom, Bill, and So on and So forth to come back and to let you be closer to the action in their stead. Then go ahead and kill the Taliban yourself.

Me? I have no emotional qualms since neither am I forcing my countrymen here or there to fight one another based on false pretences nor does my livelihood depend on getting a potbelly off this war.

You on the other hand Mr. Paracha continue to emit flatus and more flatus thereafter like a stinky windbag gone sour because his own people rejected his radical political ideologies.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I forgot humbleness. BA and I are also very humble.

Anarchy cannot be perpetual Reliance upon the foundations of tribalism and its innate tryst with Islam is the basis of understanding for the majority of Afghanistan, but it's consistently undermined by Kabulis that hold the mentality as "backward" and overwritten by bad policy. Such policy is reinforced by idiotic "advisors" that understand disgustingly little about Afghanistan for having occupied it for over a decade.

You think what is happening is not anarchy? In some places, the only resonance of Karzai is a district center that stands alone as a bunkered island in sea of white flags. The Taliban laughs at it saying they only allow it to exist so they can get their taskiras. Is that government? Or is the government in such a region the governance that supercedes it? It must not be so bad--I've seen a Hazara in such a place. If anarchy is the absence of government, what is governance when it fills the void?

Very good point since the majority of the country, well is the country side and despite Karzai and his goons eating all the cash flow internally and restricting it to urban centers - the country side still functions as it has and as it will when they all leave. The doom and gloom of Toramana's propaganda is just propaganda icing on his propaganda cake.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The best course for Afghanistan would be to enter into security and economic agreements with all powers regional or extra-regional, consolidate the state power/authority, enhance its effectiveness and legitimacy by delivering security and services to a larger chunk of the population, building an economic base to sustain a reasonable military force, and gradually enervating the militant movement through soft and hard power of the state in the medium-long run.

نور د بارکزی په شان خلق هسې بس بادۍ

That depends on a reliable partner. Go smell Governor Mangal's breath and see if you think he would be a reliable partner for this endeavor. Go dig up the grave of the Noorzai Abdurrazzaq killed, including the young boys and see if they are the ingredients it takes to accomplish this.

[Wowra]

Why don't you return to Afghanistan and enjoy your freedom and uphold your dignity as a hardcore Akhwani Islamist while eating gross under Mullah Omar's reign instead of that life of indignity coupled with forced or pretended loyalty to the infidel country you think is humiliating Islam?

Come. Give us a demonstration of the dignity you are talking about.

So is this what it boils down to? A dare to go to Afghanistan to some how prove/disprove dignity?

Let me give ya an insider tip. There is no dignity. I have seen ALP checkpoint firing blindly into villages, killing children because they were scared. Why were they scared? Because their Hazara district sub governor imported them from Dasht-e Barsht-e to be the "local police" of a Pashtun area. The oldest one was 20 and the youngest 14 (he thinks). Is that dignity? Two brothers were bringing their father his lunch for chakaar and they shot them both dead. I heard their pneumo-decompression hiss through a catheter that only managed to prolong their life long enough to make it to a hospital in Gardez where they succumbed to their wounds. Mind you, ALP was warned against by both the Emirate and Karzai, but Petraeus knew better, and Karzai is cheap. Dignity--I've seen the beleagured countrymen shaken down at 5 checkpoints in 20 miles just to get their apples to market. Is that dignity? I've seen Elders shamed and mocked by soldiers young enough to be their great grand children because that's what happens when you send 18 year olds to war, regardless of their country of origin. If you think there is dignity preserved in the current state, you are grossly misinformed and I urge YOU to go see for yourself.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

So is this what it boils down to? A dare to go to Afghanistan to some how prove/disprove dignity?

Let me give ya an insider tip. There is no dignity. I have seen ALP checkpoint firing blindly into villages, killing children because they were scared. Why were they scared? Because their Hazara district sub governor imported them from Dasht-e Barsht-e to be the "local police" of a Pashtun area. The oldest one was 20 and the youngest 14 (he thinks). Is that dignity? Two brothers were bringing their father his lunch for chakaar and they shot them both dead. I heard their pneumo-decompression hiss through a catheter that only managed to prolong their life long enough to make it to a hospital in Gardez where they succumbed to their wounds. Mind you, ALP was warned against by both the Emirate and Karzai, but Petraeus knew better, and Karzai is cheap. Dignity--I've seen the beleagured countrymen shaken down at 5 checkpoints in 20 miles just to get their apples to market. Is that dignity? I've seen Elders shamed and mocked by soldiers young enough to be their great grand children because that's what happens when you send 18 year olds to war, regardless of their country of origin. If you think there is dignity preserved in the current state, you are grossly misinformed and I urge YOU to go see for yourself.

Bro his mentality boils down to some things he was brainwashed with. In that region the way that it works is sorta similar to the far right wing and far left wing democrat-republic conflicts we see here. These folks here in the states have no notion of the real history and power structure and who pulls the strings and who wears the power. To them its like a team sport right? Its like the Cards against the Sox except its like Obama versus Romney etc. The same situation is even more radical there. He is apart of a left wing party called ANP from KPK that has as its counterpart a right wing party called Jamaat.

Just as here when people mention certain code words like abortion or taxes or whatver and that activates a visceral reflex in the opposing party - Toramana from youth was brainwashed with the same mentality.

Best example I can give from the mid east region is the Baathist-Brotherhood divide - where Toramana is like a Baathist type in KPK.

So in his paradigm, I secretly hate you and view you as a walking talking pig that I want to inflict shariat law onto while secretly marrying your white women while I am privately dressed in a tuxedo.

He forgets that here in the US itself the average American is NOT his elite... there is a chasm of difference between even the most chauvanist republican or most liberal atheist democrat and those guys like Lindsay Graham etc who send people off to die in wars.

He forgets that 70% of Americans are now against this war with similar numbers in the armed forces. Even if I were all that he says, how would I logically justify hating the 70% that want nothing to do with this conflict?

He cannot so he relies on intellectual comfort food that is pretty much like the dog eating garbage.

[Wowra]

Bro his mentality boils down to some things he was brainwashed with. In that region the way that it works is sorta similar to the far right wing and far left wing democrat-republic conflicts we see here. These folks here in the states have no notion of the real history and power structure and who pulls the strings and who wears the power. To them its like a team sport right? Its like the Cards against the Sox except its like Obama versus Romney etc. The same situation is even more radical there. He is apart of a left wing party called ANP from KPK that has as its counterpart a right wing party called Jamaat.

Just as here when people mention certain code words like abortion or taxes or whatver and that activates a visceral reflex in the opposing party - Toramana from youth was brainwashed with the same mentality.

Best example I can give from the mid east region is the Baathist-Brotherhood divide - where Toramana is like a Baathist type in KPK.

So in his paradigm, I secretly hate you and view you as a walking talking pig that I want to inflict shariat law onto while secretly marrying your white women while I am privately dressed in a tuxedo.

He forgets that here in the US itself the average American is NOT his elite... there is a chasm of difference between even the most chauvanist republican or most liberal atheist democrat and those guys like Lindsay Graham etc who send people off to die in wars.

He forgets that 70% of Americans are now against this war with similar numbers in the armed forces. Even if I were all that he says, how would I logically justify hating the 70% that want nothing to do with this conflict?

He cannot so he relies on intellectual comfort food that is pretty much like the dog eating garbage.

hahaha well put, and understood.