Afghans say deal agreed with U.S. for Obama to acknowledge war 'mistakes'

[Admin Khan]

KABUL (Reuters) - The Afghan government said on Tuesday it had reached a deal on the framework of a security pact with the United States after receiving assurances that President Barack Obama would issue a letter acknowledging U.S. mistakes made during the 12-year war.

But despite the Afghan announcement, the Obama administration did not confirm that it had agreed to such a letter, which could draw criticism from Republicans and anger U.S. veterans of the war.

And the State Department said some issues between the sides still had to be resolved before a final deal was reached with Afghanistan that would allow U.S. troops to stay there beyond 2014.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, in a phone call on Tuesday, overcame the main stumbling blocks to an agreement that will be put before the Loya Jirga, an assembly of Afghan tribal and political leaders due to meet in Kabul on Thursday, Karzai's spokesman said.

Without an accord on the so-called Bilateral Security Agreement, the United States has warned that it could pull out all its troops at the end of next year and leave Afghan forces to fight alone against a resilient Taliban-led insurgency.

Two years ago, Washington ended its military mission in Iraq with a similar "zero option" outcome that lead to the withdrawal of all of its troops after the failure of talks with Baghdad.

Aimal Faizi, Karzai's spokesman, said the two sides agreed on crucial provisions giving U.S. troops immunity from Afghan law and allowing them to enter Afghan homes in exceptional circumstances, something the Afghan president had resisted.

Faizi said the accord - which must now be approved by the Loya Jirga - was partly due to a promise that Obama would give a written admission of U.S. military errors in a war that has claimed many civilian casualties in addition to combatants.

RIGHT TO ENTER AFGHAN HOMES

"Both sides agreed that Obama send a letter ... assuring the president and the people of Afghanistan that the right to enter into Afghan homes by U.S. forces and the extraordinary circumstances will not be misused," Faizi told reporters in Kabul.

"The whole idea of having a letter was to acknowledge the suffering of the Afghan people and the mistakes of the past. That was the only thing that satisfied the president," Faizi added.

Asked whether a letter of that nature would be issued, White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters: "I don't have any specifics on any language of a letter that hasn't been written."

A senior State Department official said Kerry told Karzai that "we will consider his request for reassurances including the option of a letter from the administration stating our position."

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, a frequent critic of Obama's foreign policy, said: "I'm stunned. Apologize for what?"

"Maybe we should get the Afghan president to apologize to the American soldiers for all the hardship he's created for them," Graham told Reuters. "And maybe President Karzai should apologize to the Afghan people for poor leadership and corruption."

Karzai had long objected to a security pact that gives U.S. forces the authority to raid Afghan homes and granting immunity from Afghan prosecution, but Washington has said such provisions are crucial for its troops to remain in the country beyond 2014 when most foreign troops are due to leave.

(Additional reporting by Dylan Welch, Matt Spetalnick, Lesley Wrougton, Mirwais Harooni, Patricia Zengerle and Adrian Croft; Writing by Dylan Welch; Editing by Maria Golovnina, Ralph Boulton and Philip Barbara)

Afghans say deal agreed with U.S. for Obama to acknowledge war 'mistakes'

[Admin Khan]

[MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION] [MENTION=13985]Wowra[/MENTION]

With the security deal now almost certain to be signed, what are your thoughts on it?

[gadoonwal]

Admin khan wrora,stari mashay,
I read the recent interview of hamid gul of isi on umat daily where he said talibans will form govt in afghanistan in 2014.
Is the deal secretly sign by pakistani govt and US .
Afghanistan need free and independent policies not to be influenced by others.
Who are the punjabi jats to decide the future of afghanistan?
After 2014 the UN peacekeeper should patrol the duranline to stop pakistani interferance in afghan affair.

[Kushan Prince]

I'm just praying to god that the tribal leaders don't sign the BSA.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

@BarakzaiAbdali @Wowra

With the security deal now almost certain to be signed, what are your thoughts on it?

The way I and probably most people familiar with Afghan history view it?

A puppet named Hamida has a puppeteer's hand inside his anal orifice. The puppet asked the puppeteer how it was going to make it seem as if a red, white, and blue arm wasn't inside his innards, i.e. create an illusion. Everyone else watches with chagrin. The puppeteer tells him that he is going to voice one thing publicly but that the puppet should just voice nonsense that is opposite (e.g. an airstrike happens and Afghans are pissed, the puppeteer keeps quiet or denies a tragedy just happened and the puppet says the opposite) with the net balance of nothing being done and no one being held responsible. The puppet frantically threatens to join the insurgency, the puppet calls a committee of useless sock puppets repeatedly so that a committee of puppets pertends to deliberate what they already knew they were going to sign.

All things aside, here is what this means for

America:
Its played right into the hands of its adversaries and ignored the sage advices of Scheuer and others including Bacevich. It is fighting a half committed war of attrition and basically, even after supposedly killing 20,000 Talibs last year in a previously estimated fighting force of 30,000 still cannot establish security. It will continue to hemorrhage valuable tax dollars and resources that at best will get shuttled around into the pockets of a few military industrial complex participants. It will ignore the lessons of history the British empire left before it and will continue to leap headlong with hubris.

Afghanistan:
If Karzai is viewed as a legitimate leader what he would sign away are the following important rights autonomous nations guarantee their denizens:
1) The rule of law applicable to anyone, foreign or domestic - we saw the recent example of why this important in practical application in the deaths in Nangrahar where the family demanded the people in question be tried according to their culture's laws, rules, and regulations.
2) Unlawful search and seizure is being pretty much shat on and used for toilet paper. The clear cut example of Zik Kandahari and his boys rolling up into those people's houses is a prime example of why this is important.

So this is not theoretics but reality.

The good thing is that most of that region recognizes Karzai and the Kabul government for what it is... a paper government written by Kharijaan and recognized only by them as well.

So in reality it doesn't change much. If the Americans decide to leave if the costs outweigh the benefits then a paper agreement wont hold them to much if "international law" held them to nothing in the last 10 years. They write the international laws, meaning they can make and break them.

Pakistan:
Continued money and welfare to prop up the oligarchs and feudals that run that country... and the military will get to go on a spending spree and now its supposed chosen proxies will get it even easier by dealing with a smaller force when a surge force accomplished next to nothing.

The usual excuse of the zoot suit Afghans (failed Western emigres) will be about how this will "strengthen Afghanistan" against aggressors blah blah blah blah blah blah when in reality they are pretty much offering excuses for their abject failure in governance and their inability to reconcile the reality of what they are willing to sell themselves for.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The lamest part is the "letter from Obama." That's like saying: Hey guy who punched me in the face and then kicked me in the testicles - should the need arise you can still go for the family jewels but per our agreement just write down that you were wrong in kicking my testicles the first time.

At least Najib and the other strongmen (Sadat decades ago and Maliki) etc just signed and could have cared less for public perception or legacy. Karzai is so effeminate and so flamboyant that he obsesses over what others think of his stupid moves. Why else would he feel obligated to do the erratic things he does?

[randolph85]

What is funny is when these Afghan elite accuse the anti BSA crowd of Afghans as being supported by foreigners. Dismissing Afghans who want to free the country of foreign occupation and dictation while ironically standing near pictures of Ahmad Shah Baba, Mirwais, Amanullah etc. and talking about how occupation is good for Afghanistan.

[Khilji]

What is funny is when these Afghan elite accuse the anti BSA crowd of Afghans as being supported by foreigners. Dismissing Afghans who want to free the country of foreign occupation and dictation while ironically standing near pictures of Ahmad Shah Baba, Mirwais, Amanullah etc. and talking about how occupation is good for Afghanistan.

they did it with turkey and attaturk with bosnia,bosnia is so long under occupation of usa and his nato and at last our tribes dieing a worst dead the last 12 years let them accept this crap and let the usa move out with their 50 nations no need that more muslims dieing in afghanistan.my nightmare is a civilwar will come to afghanistan after the withdraw of nato and alone usa could never in lifetime handle this occupation of afghanistan the usa did nothing to stablice afghanistan they pushed the afghans to terrorism and war installed the worst warlords and criminals on power and they going nowhere with their strategy.sry for the bad english

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

BSA is like having your home invaded, your mother raped, your possessions taken and your furniture destroyed and the next morning making an agreement with the intruder so that your neighbors won't do the same to you.

[Wowra]

Admin Khan,

Honestly,the whole BSA pact brings to mind the relation between Britain and Amir Abdur Rahman, only now the US would prefer to manage select interior affairs as well. If there is any hope of an Afghans to be free men, they should steer clear. I can't fathom living in a State that allows foreign armies to enter my home. Karzai of course rattles the saber, demanding arbitrary penance to maintain some false visage of honor while his back pocket bulges beneath his technicolor robe. Sayyaf, however, recognizes the difference between money and power--certainly, if there is a way to get both, he'll find a way, but if not, he will err on the side of power which will oppose this pact. I think his decision will influence the majority of leaders' opinions on the matter in the end. I also think he recognizes the detriment of endorsement, and he would stand to lose a lot of the immunity he's enjoyed over the years.

In the end, acceptance of the BSA would be the best thing to ever happen to the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, and by proxy, HiG.

I don't understand the intent though. The oil along the oxus isn't enough to fuss over, and China Petrol would get it with or without a BSA. The mineral wealth is virtually untouchable with the exception of that which is already being molested. Herat's marble is pushed to Italy on the slick via Mohammed Dost where its cut and polished and sold for much more expensive Italian Marble. Sail and Kilo are plundering back in the Behsoods in Hazaran Wardak. China's back there, too--but not coming close to getting a return on the cost of paving Highway 2. So where's the rub? The security in those operations would continue to allow the mining/drilling/etc because they are in secure locations--which makes a BSA irrelevant. The loads of lithium have been devalued by current global operations, and are mostly untouchable or not worth the effort. So what is the intent of a BSA? To keep contractors working? That doesn't seem like enough incentive. We've already proven that we'll walk out on a war, so saving face can't be a factor. The only thing I can imagine is to continue to marginalize and isolate Iran, deny Pakistan strategic depth, and secure a logistical pathway for a Turkmenistan, Afghan, Pakistan pipeline that will likely never happen.

[Shah-i-Kot]

Admin Khan,

Honestly,the whole BSA pact brings to mind the relation between Britain and Amir Abdur Rahman, only now the US would prefer to manage select interior affairs as well. If there is any hope of an Afghans to be free men, they should steer clear. I can't fathom living in a State that allows foreign armies to enter my home. Karzai of course rattles the saber, demanding arbitrary penance to maintain some false visage of honor while his back pocket bulges beneath his technicolor robe. Sayyaf, however, recognizes the difference between money and power--certainly, if there is a way to get both, he'll find a way, but if not, he will err on the side of power which will oppose this pact. I think his decision will influence the majority of leaders' opinions on the matter in the end. I also think he recognizes the detriment of endorsement, and he would stand to lose a lot of the immunity he's enjoyed over the years.

In the end, acceptance of the BSA would be the best thing to ever happen to the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, and by proxy, HiG.

I don't understand the intent though. The oil along the oxus isn't enough to fuss over, and China Petrol would get it with or without a BSA. The mineral wealth is virtually untouchable with the exception of that which is already being molested. Herat's marble is pushed to Italy on the slick via Mohammed Dost where its cut and polished and sold for much more expensive Italian Marble. Sail and Kilo are plundering back in the Behsoods in Hazaran Wardak. China's back there, too--but not coming close to getting a return on the cost of paving Highway 2. So where's the rub? The security in those operations would continue to allow the mining/drilling/etc because they are in secure locations--which makes a BSA irrelevant. The loads of lithium have been devalued by current global operations, and are mostly untouchable or not worth the effort. So what is the intent of a BSA? To keep contractors working? That doesn't seem like enough incentive. We've already proven that we'll walk out on a war, so saving face can't be a factor. The only thing I can imagine is to continue to marginalize and isolate Iran, deny Pakistan strategic depth, and secure a logistical pathway for a Turkmenistan, Afghan, Pakistan pipeline that will likely never happen.

Israel is putting all US military/economic interests in the region at stake when they start war with Iran. US is trying its best to prevent an Israeli strike.

I feel that the US foreign policy establishment is wishfully (foolishly too) trying to disconnect from the aftermath affects of an Israeli war on Iran. The silver lining that reveals how worried they are is the severe desperation exhibited by the US team headed by Kerry in the P5+1 talks with Iran. Israel keeps throwing water on any deal, and this frustrates US foreign policy establishment. The issue is Israel is not going to be sitting duck for the sake of US bases, not when it has vast control of US Senate/Congress and economy. In light of all this, this BSA talk with a treacherous puppet Karzai is all a joke. Im even suprised the puppet has not thought about this yet, and spoken out against an Israeli war on Iran (he would look pretty stupid by then he is)

Iran threatens attack on US bases in event of war with Israel - CSMonitor.com

Iran: We Can Hit 35 US Bases in 'Minutes' - ABC News

[Shah-i-Kot]

This (Karzai) is the lamest regime in the world along with its parliament. It stands next to Pakistan in terms of patheticness.

On one hand, the US is bending over backwards to talk to Iran (the Uncle Tom Obama saying Khudahafiz to Rouhani LMAO), and on the other hand they have Karzai kissing their anus with Kayani/Nawaz not so far behind.

Then you got Netanyahu who comes to town and reminds US officials that his asss needs to be kissed and cleaned (this is very hilarious to see especially when Kerry tries in vain to put a facade of independence from Netanyahu's hold).

Now I ask you who is the man? Who got these clowns dancing every time he talks. LOL its hilarious.

[KGODB]

At least Najib and the other strongmen (Sadat decades ago and Maliki) etc just signed and could have cared less for public perception or legacy. Karzai is so effeminate and so flamboyant that he obsesses over what others think of his stupid moves. Why else would he feel obligated to do the erratic things he does?

Your point speaks to an issue that I have raised several times in political discussions

If youre going to be a slave, you need to own that role and you need to take ownership of anything your puppetmaster does

It will not persuade the masses from considering you a puppet, but you will at least maintain some semblance of independence and strength

IE. Karzai is beholden to the Americans, he has no control of their war operations, yet cries and complains over how they conduct the war to no effect. Not only is he a puppet, but he is a weak puppet

Whereas if he owned those night raids, and if he owned guantanomo, the anger towards will continue, but at least Afghans can see some measure of power and strength in Kabul

Karzai is a political fool

[Shah-i-Kot]

Your point speaks to an issue that I have raised several times in political discussions

If youre going to be a slave, you need to own that role and you need to take ownership of anything your puppetmaster does

It will not persuade the masses from considering you a puppet, but you will at least maintain some semblance of independence and strength

IE. Karzai is beholden to the Americans, he has no control of their war operations, yet cries and complains over how they conduct the war to no effect. Not only is he a puppet, but he is a weak puppet

Whereas if he owned those night raids, and if he owned guantanomo, the anger towards will continue, but at least Afghans can see some measure of power and strength in Kabul

Karzai is a political fool

I dont even know which people in a puppet fake jirga would want to put their vote for this.


Technically, Karzai already signed the SPA in 2012, so I dont know what this is all about. BSA, what is next? SPA part 2? BSA part 2? Who takes the US word seriously? They are already exiting. What is 5000-10,000 NATO troops going to do that 100,000 troops could not? Who controls the majority of Afghanistan? Karzai? NATO?

If they even stay, I dont think they have the stomach to fight a resilient Afghan insurgency which has brought the war to this point. Secondly, once they realize there is no way out of the Israel-Iran war, these guys will be running fast out of there or stay and face the immediate aftermath of such a war- a mess.

just look at their fear of the consequences of Syria and Israel-Iran war. This foreign policy team exposes all their fears on the world stage, practically begging Netanyahu to calm down!! HAHA Know who the real boss and who the real puppets are- slaves of their own making.

In any case, Najib (who as you say owned being a puppet) was hanged from a goal post. Shah Shuja had his head chopped off. So puppets propped up by a foreign occupation can never be respected or feared- only to be mocked and ridiculed.

[laevanay]

It is not final till approved by the Loya Girga