Fifty thousands pashtuns killed in pakistan by terror,not a single protest

[gadoonwal]

Inside Pakistani control Pashtun territory 50000 Pashtuns killed by the terrorists.These terrorists are supported by high authorities in the military and isi .Some of them are link to other countries as well .
The so called PUnkhtaana have no guts to protest against their killers even.
The Christians killed in our land is also big shame for us.
Even these Christians are more brave and courageous.At least they protest and strongly condemn the act of terror.
While pakhtun khan is watching mujra dancing and reading the stories of the past.
Same in Afghanistan no one care for the blood of Pashtuns why?
are we realy a brave nation?

[gadoonwal]

Pashtuns and their leaders can not even name their killers.
Looks like paki authority is more powerfull then anything.

[Bengal_Tiger]

1. Pashtuns will not be allowed to do such a thing.

The ANP were not even allowed to run a proper campaign during the last elections and were targeted by the "militants (ISI run operatives), whilst the PML and PTI weren't.

It is well known amongst Pashtuns (I am not talking about mainly western-based and raised youth in this forum) that the TTP are run by the ISI.

Here is a picture from Pakhtunkhwa of militants openly advertising...not toothpaste, not washing powder, not Iphone 5...but military training.




The supposed mighty nuclear superpower that is Pakistan which has around 0.1 million soldiers in Pashtun areas with gunships, APCs, artillery cannot get rid of this?

Apparently the soldier to civilian ratio in either Waziristan or FATA (forget exactly) is something absurd...with there being a huge number of soldiers.


2. The answer:


In reality Pashtuns are occupied (primarily Waziristan and FATA Pashtuns) just like the Palestinians of Gaza.

- There are 1 million refugees from Waziristan living in refugee camps.

- The whole tribal system destroyed amongst the Mehsuds and Waziris.

The answer is that Pashtun tribes such as Yusufzais, Khattaks, Afridis, Orakzais, Mohmands, Shinwaris and others primarily in KPK & FATA must do jirga and mashwera and realize that the state structure of Pakistan will in the long run not do anything for their benefit but Pashtuns must opt for another state structure, that is an independent Pashtun state and then work to expel these forces from the region.

If all major Pashtun tribes are united e.g. Yusufzais, Khattaks and others then Pakistani (i.e. ISI, military) control of Pakhtunkhwa will end.

In simple terms Pashtuns must stop being deluded and thinking that this war will end and Pakistan as a state will mean they can live in peace. They will always be 2nd class citizens with their culture dying out at best, or even worse they will face war, massacres, displacement etc.

As far as I know all major Pashtun tribes in Pakhtunkhwa are basically loyal to the concept of Pakistan i.e. Khattaks, Yusufzais, Afridis etc.

Anyway what KPK Pashtuns want is their own decision and for them to decide, but as someone whose country was part of the same state I can give them wise advice that being part of Pakistan will lead to nowhere.

[Badlun]

Who is Hakeemullah Mehsood? Who is Mulla Umar? Are they not Pashtuns? The killers and the killed both are Pashtuns. If agencies use them then why they let agencies to use them to kill their own brothers and sisters. Why agencies do not use Panjabis, Tajiks, Sindhis, Uzbeks, Balochs for their designs? Why they only use Pashtuns for this purpose?

It means the fault lies with us. Those Pashtuns are used who are either Islamists or innocent brainwashed young suicide bombers. I have met many Pashtun Islamists who consider their religious duty to perpetrate acts of terrorism because for them it is Jihad.

Other use it as business opportunity to earn money from terror sponsoring states like Saudi Arabia or from local people by kidnapping, drug trafficking, extortions etc.

An educated Pashtun, a professional Pashtun will never commit acts of terror and will never be used by others. Secularism and modern education and more and more democracy with development are the solutions.

[Bengal_Tiger]

1. There are many non-Pashtuns involved in the TTP including Uzbeks (Uzbeks from Uzbekistan and not Afghanistan), Arabs and also Punjabis e.g. from the Punjabi Taliban and Lashkar i Jhangvi.

2. Hakeemullah Mehsud and others are given media prominence and in fact the TTP does partly deserve that, but radicalism is also strong in south Punjab including the Jhang region.

Punjabi militants murdering and massacring Shias in the Punjab started in the 90s and predates the Taliban.

However though there is radicalism amongst both Punjabis and Pashtuns there are some differences.

a: The ruling party in Punjab (PML-N, Punjabi nationalists) works with militants and gets them freed from jail.

b: The former ruling party in Pashtunkhwa (ANP) was being killed and butchered by militants.


So Pashtun nationalists spoke out against the Taliban.

Punjabi nationalists work with them.

[Badlun]

@Bengal tiger

You may try to settle your own accounts with Pakistan but Afghanistan cannot change its geography and its neighbors. Similarly 30 million Pashtuns in Pakistan cannot opt to have their own state all of the sudden and if they try Pakistani army will never let it happen and such a try will bring a another bath of bloodshed

Afghanistan at this moment will never want that Pakistani Pashtuns create problems for them.

The realistic way will be that Pakistani and Afghan Pashtuns learn from Punjabis and Tajiks and live peacefully in their own countries, get modern education , actively participate in political and cultural activities and have industries in their areas.

[Bengal_Tiger]

@Bengal tiger

You may try to settle your own accounts with Pakistan but Afghanistan cannot change its geography and its neighbors. Similarly 30 million Pashtuns in Pakistan cannot opt to have their own state all of the sudden and if they try Pakistani army will never let it happen and such a try will bring a another bath of bloodshed

Afghanistan at this moment will never want that Pakistani Pashtuns create problems for them.

The realistic way will be that Pakistani and Afghan Pashtuns learn from Punjabis and Tajiks and live peacefully in their own countries, get modern education , actively participate in political and cultural activities and have industries in their areas.

1. It is up to Pashtuns of Pakistan to determine their own destiny and not outsiders be they in Afghanistan, India, Bangladesh or elsewhere.

2. The majority of Pashtuns of Pakistan are not very politicized and seek above all else to have normal lives and provide for their families. The life of the average Pashtun in Pakistan centres around survival, looking after their families and not on reading Khushal Khan Khattak poetry, greater Afghanistan (which very few Pashtuns in Pakistan are at all interested in) or things of that nature.

3. Pashtuns of Pakistan are proud of being Pashtun, of their lineage and acknowledge their origins in their original motherland Afghanistan and their commonalities with their blood brothers across the Durrand line. They seek respect for Pashtun culture, it being sustained and flourished but within the context of the federation of Pakistan.

4. Having said all 3 points above I will come to my conclusion but let me make it clear I am not trying to "settle any accounts", I am a moderator on Khyberwatch and little do I speak about Pakistan and nor do I use my role in that forum to start anti-Punjabi threads, this is because Khyberwatch is a serious forum which consists of Pashtun nationalists who have been involved in real ground level work for decades and they would see excessive anti-Punjabism as ugly and uncalled for. They are people who respect Bacha Khan (rahmatullahi 'alahi) who did not preach hate but preached peace.

Anyway my conclusion is this:

- Pashtuns of Pakistan seek to live in peace, jobs, prosperity within Pakistan. They are loyal to Pakistan. My belief is that due to the inherent nature of Pakistan they will never have peace within it. This will happen regardless of what I type on an internet message board. I believe that there will come a point where the disfunctionality of the Pakistani state will become so gross - worse than it is now - that Pashtuns of Pakistan will opt for another arrangement other than the current state of Pakistan to pursue their goals of peace and prosperity. That the current situation will become so unbearable, that the false rhetoric of Pakistani nationalism (which is used to perpetuate the interests of the military-feudal elite) will be seen for what they are, that faith in Pakistan will be exhausted, that there will be more bombs, more Malala's, more refugees, more terror, more betrayal by the Punjabi generals in Rawalpindi that eventually sooner or later, Pashtuns will revolt.

If they stay within the federation of Pakistan and it survives for a thousand years and they are happy in it, that is their decision and exclusively their decision.

I am merely saying based on history and evidence what I believe will happen.


On a very practical level, if 30 million Pashtuns of Pakistan want independence and are united, there is nothing the generals of Rawalpindi can do about it. A few thousand Balochi fighters have made the then prime minister of Pakistan speak last year of a referendum on independence for Balochistan. Pashtuns are far more numerous and stronger, and in fact their allegiance to Pakistan enables it to survive.

Pakistan needs Pashtuns. Pashtuns do not need Pakistan.

[Badlun]

1. There are many non-Pashtuns involved in the TTP including Uzbeks (Uzbeks from Uzbekistan and not Afghanistan), Arabs and also Punjabis e.g. from the Punjabi Taliban and Lashkar i Jhangvi.

2. Hakeemullah Mehsud and others are given media prominence and in fact the TTP does partly deserve that, but radicalism is also strong in south Punjab including the Jhang region.

Punjabi militants murdering and massacring Shias in the Punjab started in the 90s and predates the Taliban.

However though there is radicalism amongst both Punjabis and Pashtuns there are some differences.

a: The ruling party in Punjab (PML-N, Punjabi nationalists) works with militants and gets them freed from jail.

b: The former ruling party in Pashtunkhwa (ANP) was being killed and butchered by militants.


So Pashtun nationalists spoke out against the Taliban.

Punjabi nationalists work with them.

Headquarters of all types of Taliban are in Pashtun areas. Most of the terrorist activities take place on in regions where Pashtun live. You will never hear bomb blasts and suicide killings in Punjab as you see it in KP.

Sectarianism is perpetrated on lesser scale as compared to terrorism. Jhang was hub of sectarianism in Ziaul Haq era but now a days it is quite and calm. Punjabis have almost destroyed Lashkare Jhangavi.

All these Punjabi, Uzbek, Arab and other Taliban live in Pashtun areas, in Pashtun homes and many have married to Pashtun women. Pashtuns are their hosts. The fault lies with Pashtuns to let others to commit terrorism on their land.

Why not they they investors and importers in their area for industrial development instead of these marauding hordes of terrorists?

[Badlun]

1. There are many non-Pashtuns involved in the TTP including Uzbeks (Uzbeks from Uzbekistan and not Afghanistan), Arabs and also Punjabis e.g. from the Punjabi Taliban and Lashkar i Jhangvi.

2. Hakeemullah Mehsud and others are given media prominence and in fact the TTP does partly deserve that, but radicalism is also strong in south Punjab including the Jhang region.

Punjabi militants murdering and massacring Shias in the Punjab started in the 90s and predates the Taliban.

However though there is radicalism amongst both Punjabis and Pashtuns there are some differences.

a: The ruling party in Punjab (PML-N, Punjabi nationalists) works with militants and gets them freed from jail.

b: The former ruling party in Pashtunkhwa (ANP) was being killed and butchered by militants.


So Pashtun nationalists spoke out against the Taliban.

Punjabi nationalists work with them.

Headquarters of all types of Taliban are in Pashtun areas. Most of the terrorist activities take place on in regions where Pashtun live. You will never hear bomb blasts and suicide killings in Punjab as you see it in KP.

Sectarianism is perpetrated on lesser scale as compared to terrorism. Jhang was hub of sectarianism in Ziaul Haq era but now a days it is quite and calm. Punjabis have almost destroyed Lashkare Jhangavi.

All these Punjabi, Uzbek, Arab and other Taliban live in Pashtun areas, in Pashtun homes and many have married to Pashtun women. Pashtuns are their hosts. The fault lies with Pashtuns to let others to commit terrorism on their land.

Why not they they investors and importers in their area for industrial development instead of these marauding hordes of terrorists?

[Bengal_Tiger]

Headquarters of all types of Taliban are in Pashtun areas. Most of the terrorist activities take place on in regions where Pashtun live. You will never hear bomb blasts and suicide killings in Punjab as you see it in KP.

Sectarianism is perpetrated on lesser scale as compared to terrorism. Jhang was hub of sectarianism in Ziaul Haq era but now a days it is quite and calm. Punjabis have almost destroyed Lashkare Jhangavi.

All these Punjabi, Uzbek, Arab and other Taliban live in Pashtun areas, in Pashtun homes and many have married to Pashtun women. Pashtuns are their hosts. The fault lies with Pashtuns to let others to commit terrorism on their land.

Why not they they investors and importers in their area for industrial development instead of these marauding hordes of terrorists?

1. I find your posts strange and seem to be full of self-hate (if you are Pashtun and hate if you are not) towards Pashtuns essentially saying that extremism and backwardness is inherent to their nature, which is simply not true, though I would say traditional Pashtunwali is very conservative and at times harsh but this is a product of mountain culture (many mountain cultures produce extreme conservatism e.g. Albanians with their "Kanun", the Chechens as well as the different Berber tribes, e.g. the Riffis who are so conservative that brothers and sisters cannot sit in the same rooms in their own hourse) and also partly the nomadic culture from which Pashtuns originated from and other nomadic peoples also have a heavy emphasis on honour, blood feuds etc e.g. the Arab bedouin.

However Pashtuns are also inheritors of a rich culture of poetry and also singing even dancing the Attan and Pashtun culture was much less conservative than it is now with the Indian-origin, Punjabi sponsored Deobandi ideology that has now infilitrated and spread itself in Afghanistan and Pakhtunkhwa.

Talibanism is not native to Pashtuns and is a rejection of traditional Pashtun culture.

The Arabs of the UAE are also from a nomadic tribal society where feuds are common but their geo-political situation is different and they have oil and the coast and are now engaging in building skyscrapers. Pashtuns could be exactly the same were it not for Zia and the Punjabi army's deliberate Talibanisation/Deobanization of the Pashtun belt.



Are you saying Pashtun's genes make them violent?

I say rather it is not blood, genetics etc but the ideology being spread in their areas by certain forces who have their own agenda for doing so.

2. Deobandism comes from central India and not from Pakhtunkhwa.

Wahabism is older in Punjab than in Pakhtunkhwa in the form of the Ahlul Hadith.

There was a massive terrorism problem in the 90s with the Punjabi Sipah i Sahaba killing Shias left, right and centre.

Musharraf chose to arrest them and put them in prison.

The Pakistani authorities could do the same to the TTP if they chose to but do not do so.

Pakhtunkhwa is seen as the outskirts/periphery of Pakistan and not "Pakistan proper", so a few "Pathans" killed here and there, and a few (1 million+) made refugees is no big deal. Life goes on as normal in Lahore, Rawalpindi and Karachi.

Religious extremism exists in the Punjab.

Bombing kills 33 in Pakistan's South Punjab


By BILL ROGGIODecember 15, 2009

A bombing in a market in the southern district of Pakistan's Punjab province killed 33 people and wounded scores more.

Police believe a car bomb was detonated at a taxi stand in a busy market in the district of Dera Ghazi Khan. More than 60 people have been reported wounded, some critically, while more than 20 people may still be trapped in the rubble.

The blast was so large that more than 10 buildings collapsed, while 10 more were damaged. The likely target of the attack was the home of a senior adviser to the chief minister of Punjab province. The adviser's home was badly damaged in the attack.

Bombing kills 33 in Pakistan's South Punjab.

2009



Governor of Punjab murdered by Punjabi extremist.



May 2010 massacre of Qadianis by Punjabi extremists, 94 people killed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_2010_attacks_on_Ahmadi_mosques_in_Lahore

US thinks Punjab becoming a hotbed of extremism, 2013

3.

Sectarianism is perpetrated on lesser scale as compared to terrorism. Jhang was hub of sectarianism in Ziaul Haq era but now a days it is quite and calm. Punjabis have almost destroyed Lashkare Jhangavi.

Lashkar i Jhangvi has not been destroyed but are in fact strong and are patronized by Nawaz Sharif's PML-N

Pashtun Taliban have never recieved the patronage of Pashtun nationalists but Pashtun nationalists are in fact murdered by them.

Lashkar i Jhangvi are alive and kicking.


4.

All these Punjabi, Uzbek, Arab and other Taliban live in Pashtun areas, in Pashtun homes and many have married to Pashtun women. Pashtuns are their hosts. The fault lies with Pashtuns to let others to commit terrorism on their land.

The Uzbeks and others who are in Pakhtunkhwa were disliked by local Pashtun tribesmen (as tribals generally dislike outsiders including urban Pashtuns) and were expelled by Maulvi Nauzir. They and the other TTP are now entrenched in Waziristan by force and by terror and they have killed many. They are not liked by Pashtuns.

Pashtun tribal culture can be very insular and one tribe hates another, do you think these tribals actually like Uzbeks who they have nothing in common with, when they even dislike fellow Pashtuns who they are blood brothers with?

These Uzbeks as well as the local extremist militants are disliked by many Pashtuns and are seen as recieving the covert patronage of the Pakistan army who in public say they are at war with them.

This is why Pashtun nationalists argue that Rawalpindi generals seek to stifle and retard the intellectual and industrial progress of Pashtun areas in order to keep Pashtun areas unstable, factories for producing warriors to generate "strategic depth" in Afghanistan and also fight in Kashmir. The more educated and aware Pashtuns are the more they might be inclined to nationalism.

5. Pashtuns when they have the opportunity are hardworkers and people of business. One can go to Karachi and see how many Pashtuns have worked hard and made successful businesses. How they dominate the transport sector.

There are Afghan Pashtuns in Britain who came with nothing and no English, then worked hard, first got small kiosks in the street, then progressed to a stall in the market, then a shop, then a chain of shops and are now millionaires.


To summarize a couple of points:

- Pashtuns are only tribal now because of current economic, developmental situation but so were the gulf Arabs, Germanic tribes of the past. They progressed, so can Pashtuns.

- Terrorism and extremism is not inherent to Pashtuns.

- Pashtuns are victims of forces pumping in fundamentalism in to their area through the mushrooming of Deobandi madrassas.

- The Deobandi and Wahabi traditions are not native to Pashtuns but come from India and Arabia. Sufism was what Pashtuns were traditionally.

- Tribal Pashtuns do not want foreign terrorists in their homeland.

- Punjabis and others seek to vilify and potray "Pathans" as inherent terrorists and barbarians.





Traditional Afghan female dress before the American-Pakistan sponsored Deobandi onslaught in Pashtun lands. This dress is not much different to the dresses worn by eastern European or western European village women a century or too ago. Its bright colours are in contrast to the monochrome austere coloured burqas of the Deobandis and others.



Bright coloured jewellery and clothing of Afghans disproving that all Pashtuns have ever produced are terrorists when they have produced poets, artists, designers, musicians, writers etc.



I could show countless more pictures of Pashtun clothing, rugs, jewellery, pottery, musical instruments and so on.

However Pashtuns are in fact people of culture contrary to the Rawalpindi ISI narrative whereby "Pathans" are glorious warriors that can fight for Pakistaniyaat in Kashmir and Afghanistan (i.e. cannon fodder).

Also Pakistani nationalists also asserted and to a degree even now that Bengalis are inherently inferior to them racially, though we had civilization in Bengal thousands of years ago, and in India "Bengali" is percieved as being like a Jew i.e. intellectual and proud of their intellectual and cultural tradition. Thus I am defending Pashtuns against this Pakistani and Punjabi promoted racism.

[gadoonwal]

Hakeemullah and other pakhtuns are just the faces on media.
Hameed Gul ex ISI chief is the boss of jahilaans.
The top commanders of talibs are Punjabis.The instructions are coming from GHQ Punjab.
In Gilgit Baltistan the terror camps are working under Punjabi army.
The southern Punjab is the head quarter of terrorists training under the Punjabi ,,isi,,.
It is wrong to call pashtunland the training center.The whole world knew this now that Punjabi Talibans are more violent and professionally trained by pak army.
I agree on one point that Pashtuns talibs harm their own land by bombing schools and mosques but all under the instruction of Punjabi ,,isi,,.
We have many Pashtuns licking Punjabi boots and work like their slaves and defending them everywhere.
Pashtuns will suffer more and more under the terrorists state of punjabistan.
The only good option is to free Pashtunland from Punjabi aggression and create our own identity pashtunistan.

[Smarty]

Hakeemullah and other pakhtuns are just the faces on media.
Hameed Gul ex ISI chief is the boss of jahilaans.
The top commanders of talibs are Punjabis.The instructions are coming from GHQ Punjab.
In Gilgit Baltistan the terror camps are working under Punjabi army.
The southern Punjab is the head quarter of terrorists training under the Punjabi ,,isi,,.
It is wrong to call pashtunland the training center.The whole world knew this now that Punjabi Talibans are more violent and professionally trained by pak army.
I agree on one point that Pashtuns talibs harm their own land by bombing schools and mosques but all under the instruction of Punjabi ,,isi,,.
We have many Pashtuns licking Punjabi boots and work like their slaves and defending them everywhere.
Pashtuns will suffer more and more under the terrorists state of punjabistan.
The only good option is to free Pashtunland from Punjabi aggression and create our own identity pashtunistan.

Lol pashtuns are innocent angels tricked by evil and satanic punjabis into terrorism.....apart from asmatullah mauvia, any other punjabi commander of TTP?
TTP and army have killed thousands of each other men for fun and as friendly fight? As according to you hakimullah mehsud is agent of ISI.
The fact is pashtuns are fighting and killing each other like animals. TTP, most of them are tribal pashtuns, have killed more than 40 thousands pashtuns of kpk. Pashtuns in army/ISI and FC have killed thousands of taliban and innocent tribals in FATA.
ANP, the socialist ****s, gave clean chit to army to conduct countless military operations in FATA, they themeselves got killed like ants by taliban.

Dont blame punjabis for your shortcomings, the worst enemy of pashtun is pashtun himself.

[ډګروال]

Hakeemullah and other pakhtuns are just the faces on media.
Hameed Gul ex ISI chief is the boss of jahilaans.
The top commanders of talibs are Punjabis.The instructions are coming from GHQ Punjab.
In Gilgit Baltistan the terror camps are working under Punjabi army.
The southern Punjab is the head quarter of terrorists training under the Punjabi ,,isi,,.
It is wrong to call pashtunland the training center.The whole world knew this now that Punjabi Talibans are more violent and professionally trained by pak army.
I agree on one point that Pashtuns talibs harm their own land by bombing schools and mosques but all under the instruction of Punjabi ,,isi,,.
We have many Pashtuns licking Punjabi boots and work like their slaves and defending them everywhere.
Pashtuns will suffer more and more under the terrorists state of punjabistan.
The only good option is to free Pashtunland from Punjabi aggression and create our own identity pashtunistan.

the only punjabi ghulaman are pashtun nationalists.
its thanks to them that for the first time napak army invaded pukhtunkhwa.

you seems to have accepted jahiltob as the way forward.

[ډګروال]

Lol pashtuns are innocent angels tricked by evil and satanic punjabis into terrorism.....apart from asmatullah mauvia, any other punjabi commander of TTP?
TTP and army have killed thousands of each other men for fun and as friendly fight? As according to you hakimullah mehsud is agent of ISI.
The fact is pashtuns are fighting and killing each other like animals. TTP, most of them are tribal pashtuns, have killed more than 40 thousands pashtuns of kpk. Pashtuns in army/ISI and FC have killed thousands of taliban and innocent tribals in FATA.
ANP, the socialist ****s, gave clean chit to army to conduct countless military operations in FATA, they themeselves got killed like ants by taliban.

Dont blame punjabis for your shortcomings, the worst enemy of pashtun is pashtun himself.

Pashtun shorcomings in what?

not being a slave minded british agent worshipper such as you?

the people killed in pukhtunkhwa are done by napak army and napak pathans.
poonjabi ruling days are over buddy , Pashtuns wil resist the hindu culture of pakistan.

[Badlun]

@Bengal Tiger
My comments on your summary

- Pashtuns are only tribal now because of current economic, developmental situation but so were the gulf Arabs, Germanic tribes of the past. They progressed, so can Pashtuns.

Yes so can Pashtuns but how? By following wahabism/islamism or democracy, development, modern education, human rights?
- Terrorism and extremism is not inherent to Pashtuns.

Yes not at all inherent. Pashtuns were not terrorists before 1979, before the introduction of wahabism/salafism and emergence of Taliban.

- Pashtuns are victims of forces pumping in fundamentalism in to their area through the mushrooming of Deobandi madrassas.
100% agree

- The Deobandi and Wahabi traditions are not native to Pashtuns but come from India and Arabia. Sufism was what Pashtuns were traditionally.

100% agree

- Tribal Pashtuns do not want foreign terrorists in their homeland.

They do not want but foreign terrorists are there. There are some Pashtuns with whom Pashtunwali comes after Islamism and for them a Muslim guest from Arabia or Uzbekistan is most welcomed in the spirit of Islamic brotherhood.

- Punjabis and others seek to vilify and potray "Pathans" as inherent terrorists and barbarians.
Pashtuns give them reasons to do so.