Who is responsible for the attack on ISID in Sukkur Sindh

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Some say Bla others say TTP. What do you know?

[Nazar]

It was a TTP-style attack.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Why would TTP attack ISI?

[Admin Khan]

Because ISI wishes to terminate them?

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

But people keep saying TTP is an ISI outfit designed to finish off Pashtuns. So i wonder why would they attack ISI.

[Nazar]

But people keep saying TTP is an ISI outfit designed to finish off Pashtuns. So i wonder why would they attack ISI.

In Afghanistan people think Afghan Taliban are the ISI stooges and in Pakistan, people say TTP are CIA, RAW and NDS agents.

Now you do the maths.

[Admin Khan]

But people keep saying TTP is an ISI outfit designed to finish off Pashtuns. So i wonder why would they attack ISI.

Say's who? Most say the TTP is the NDS response to the ISI stooges, the Afghan taliban.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Well lets see TTP sends entire batalions to Paktika, Paktia, Zabul and Nagarhar where NDS claimed to have captured their fighters alive. Still people believe TTP is NDS.

On the other hand we have Pashtun Nationalists who are in favour of drone strikes saying TTP is an ISI outfit out to massacre Pashtuns.

So which one is it?

[Friend]

There are three types of views. Religious people consider them as they doing all this on thier own and there are many reasons why are they doing this.
Then the pro army pro establishment people call them as americsn, israeli and indian agents fighting for thier interests and destroying pakistan ehich is totally a propaganda and we know ISI and CIA are best at their propaganda machines. Third is secularists and nationalists they consider them as an outfit of ISI following ISI orders.

[Admin Khan]

Well lets see TTP sends entire batalions to Paktika, Paktia, Zabul and Nagarhar where NDS claimed to have captured their fighters alive. Still people believe TTP is NDS.

On the other hand we have Pashtun Nationalists who are in favour of drone strikes saying TTP is an ISI outfit out to massacre Pashtuns.

So which one is it?

No Spy agency runs an 'entire' group. ISI doesn't run the entire 'Afghan Taliban unit' but it does have enough stooges to serve its strategic interest without the illiterate naive knowing so about it. The aforementioned logic applies to the NDS and TTP issue as well. NDS has nearly 30K agents, and a handsome bankroll of $'s to serve its strategic interests in Pakistan(i.e instability which seems to be working considering the death toll in Pakistan on a weekly basis).

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

So basically the leadership of TTP are working for NDS and the rest of TTP are illiterate. But at the same time TTP leaders receive training by Haqqani to attack ISI and Hakimullah Mehsud openly pledges allegiance to Mullah Umar and appears in a video together with Abu Dujana Khurasani before the latter attacks CIA outpost in Khost.

The same CIA is then bankrolling NDS.

Meanwhile ISI has stooges running Afghan Taliban. Afghan Taliban attack and kill Americans and destroy their strategic assets. America retaliates by donating its old military equipment from Afghanistan to Pakistani army aside from the fact that they have donated billions of dollars in military aid to them in the last few years.

Makes allot of sense.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Bottom line is America is the most stupid country in the world. A few communists and Panjsheris in NDS along with ISI are using all of America's money to destroy it. Makes perfect sense.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Say's who? Most say the TTP is the NDS response to the ISI stooges, the Afghan taliban.

That would be difficult to explain historically. Abdullah Mahsud ran his outfit long before Yama Karzai even wore big boy britches. Nek Muhammad Wazir was already set up and operating well before NDS had the wherewithall to do anything. Baitullah Mahsud was already on the bad list for hitting Pakistani targets in that same time frame.

Back then, Soldat and the Red Cappers were claiming this was conspiracy and staged (i.e. the ISI was actually attacking itself and killing its own agents to depict the TTP as independent proxies).

For that matter, Omar was already up and operating in less well funded Muj units early on in the Soviet conflict.

The issue with this theory is that it perpetuates the war to benefit 3 groups of people: Karzai and his technocrat emigres, the Pakistani elite, and the Western Military Industrial complex.

Why?

Because it implicity (mind you without any data or substance in tow), attempts to make it seem that the thousands upon thousands of people in these movements, derived from rural villages in the heartlands of Pashtun areas are a "focus group." This is something that Hamid Karzai himself, in his 1 or 2 honest moments has had to acknowledge is not the case.

That then allows Karzai and his cronies to keep their ponzi government alive by claiming that they are fighting a nonexistent extension of a spy program.

It allows the non rurals in Pakistan and some fringe non majority groups to claim Pakistan is threatened on all sides, (interestingly enough it also allows the militarists to claim these Pashtuns are "RAW" agents and Hindus in disguise.)

And it allows the West to put up sob stories about big bad uncle mullah holding Afghanistan hostage so that it has to go and intervene and spend American lives and treasure abroad in the pursuit of nonexistent demons.

The reality is far more simple:

Two guys are in a fight. One guy is a 12th grader and is the football team quarter back (NATO) and the other guy is a 4th grader with asthma (T-boys). The 12th grader has a helmet and his gear on and the 4th grader is in his underwear. One of the 11th graders (Pakistan), hated by everyone, offers the 4th grader a set of brass of knuckles. The 11th grader is also beating up his own third grader and that third grader is also offered a weapon by someone (NDS). Both the 4th grader and the 3rd grader would be stupid to sit there and let themselves get beat into a pulp based on some attempt to neuter them with "principles."

Someone would be hard pressed to show any data or literature that shows anything other than the fact that these men in these outfits, from leadership to foot- soldiers don't all generally believe ardently in what they are involved in.

Its really no different to me than Najibullah or Daud Khan. I could pretend and live in a non reality, that Najibullah and Daud were pure automatons, but thats not reality. The reality was those men believed in a set of core principles that they sought to put into practice.

To do that, they, like pretty much every armed group that is not a dominant power, form the beginning of time, accepted the means to be able to implement that vision.

It also defies the normal distribution of intelligence in a population. Its as if someone is saying that 5 guys (Omar + Quetta shura) on the one hand and 5 guys on the other (Mahsud and his shura) are the only thinkers and that the estimated 30,000 foot soldiers on the other hand are all lemmings without the ability to exercise any independent thought.

The most simple explanation is the easiest to swallow:

1. War radicalizes people in almost all circumstances and polarizes them as well.
2. Foreign faces in a war are going to exacerbate 1.
3. The preponderance of evidence (and history) shows that the rural masses may like Western money and goods, but they certainly don't take kindly to occupation and enforced changes to their way of life.
4. This resentment leads locals to join rebel movements (See Robert Pape's seminal work on how ISAF presence strengthened the Taliban in southern Afghanistan and made their attacks much more fierce).
5. These ill armed groups rely on foreign sources of funding (i.e. the 4th grader above) and some local sympathy for shelter but their overarching goal and recruitment motivations do not change with this.

Basically, these guys like Karzai can go on trying to perpetuate this myth, but he has to consider that these guys are fighting with even less than they ever had in the past, using archaic weaponry. Yet they are going strong 13 years on now, their bases of operation are expanding as opposed to receding. Their manpower is expanding and not shrinking. Their leaders get offd and buried and new ones replace them rapidly. Karzai on the other hand relies on slightly less than state of the art armaments and a massive costly security operation to keep his ponzi scheme going. He could barely keep Kandahar in line after his rotund brother met his untimely demise.

Who is going to wait out who in this situation? Who is talking zero options and venting their rage in public platforms in a juvenile manner (Karzai)? Whose legions are buying property in Dubai and Switzerland to prepare for a collapse?

If the argument is that you have to cut the hand that rocks the cradle (i.e. remove Pakistan permanently from the equation) and that the insurgency will melt away overnight, boy is he living in a dream world.

I think the best quote comes from Daud Sultanzoi. He was talking about the NSA efforts to monitor these guys (the T-ban):

“I don’t think it will disturb them, They’re like the energizer bunny — they keep going and going,”

Its really too bad these guys like Karzai and his technocrats on the one side and the Red Cappers on the other dont submit to reality. If they did so, then they would at least be able to understand the enemy they fight as opposed to fighting a fictional enemy (zombies with ISI remote control toggles).

Fictional enemies lead to fictional strategies.

[Michin Khel]

jundullah faction of ttp has claimed responsibility for attack,. And no offence but bla sucks, you dont expects such level of attacks from them.

[Michin Khel]

Pakistani Taliban's Jundullah group claims responsibility for Sukkur attack - DAWN.COM