The Path to secular democracy in Afghanistan

[کیش]

According to some of my family members who fought alongside him in the 80's yes. Everyone needs to let go of their biases, just because he wasn't a "Pashtun" shouldn't discredit his leadership in the battlefield.

[khushal]

no it has nothing to with being Pashtun. Najib was a Pashtun from my province of Paktia and most Pashtun condemn him including me. But Masood had agreements with Soviet generals not to attack each other and allow supplies to pass through the Salang. He even made videos of fake fights where he had his men coordinate firefights with each other and make it look like it was with Soviet troops in order to get aid from the US.
And when he went to Kabul, it was given to him, Rabani went to Moscow in 91 to negotiate power transfer from Najib to Rabani/Masood. It was given to him, he did not capture it.
And he had no leadership on the battle field, he couldn't even keep Kabul safe from Hekmatyar the way Najib had kept Kabul safe. He was a lion by keeping the TAliban from getting panjshir and if it wasn't for US forces, it would not have been long before the Taliban had taken it.
No offense but your cousins could have been looting supplies because in reality that's all they did. I know many men who claimed they fought the Soviets bravely, killed many of them in the 80's, bla bla bla but in reality all they did was hijack supply trucks and then sell the product on the black market.

[khushal]

And by the way Kaish, sonce you belong to neither sect, Masood was considered the butcher of hazaras in the 90's. He was mowing them down like:

[کیش]

Okay buddy, your sources are from the media. Mines is from relatives with wounds received from the battlefield during battling with the Soviets.

Like I said, in the 90's I have no idea what he was doing. It was the reason why most of my remaining relatives moved to Peshawer.

[khushal]

Okay buddy, your sources are from the media. Mines is from relatives with wounds received from the battlefield during battling with the Soviets.

Like I said, in the 90's I have no idea what he was doing. It was the reason why most of my remaining relatives moved to Peshawer.

Like I said your cousins were most likely like the men I know who boasted about killing soviet troops but in reality robbed supply trucks and yes those I men I know have wounds, missing arms, missing legs, they were just thieves and guess what those men I speak of went to Peshawar during the 90's as well because there were no more supply trucks to rob when the soviets left.

Dude The guy never fought, he was working on establishing a political network in northern afghansitan to bring a farsiban administration in collusion with the soviets and that's why rabani went to Moscow in 1991. there is even a video that has him claiming that the end of Pashtun domination is over. He did not care about his people, he is the equivalent of Yugoslavia's Slobodan Milošević who destroyed Yugoslavia whos era brought in ethnic cleansing just like masood era did in afghanistan.

And its not according to media, the soviet's confirmed it, the CIA confirmed it and his commanders confirmed it.
http://www.rawa.org/massoud3.htm
http://www.rawa.org/massoud_ussr.htm

[khushal]

Kaish,
If he was a lion on the battle field, name one major victory he won on the battle field.
All he did was retreat from his fellow afghan countrymen and make agreements with foriegners.

[کیش]

I don't appreciate you insulting my members of my family. You don't know the, yet are quick to label them as a crook. Perhaps, that was with your family was doing so your passing it into mines.

This is the reason why alot of Pashtuns are a bunch of hypocrites. My uncles was imprisoned in the late 70's for planning a coup de tat against the communists, and was tortured for years until escaping captivity. And i remember DJZ, called him a criminal for participating in this noble cause. This lead the communist to seize my families assets, and giving the green light to execute the male relatives and the rape attempts on my female relatives.

I have another fellow Pashtun, Shamlawer, who is pretty much like 99.9% of Pashtuns who curse me to hell for discussing the factual crimes of the Ummayads.

Just because most "Pashtun families" were to craven to fight communist Afghans (even before the Soviets arrived) and Soviets when they rolled through doesn't correlate with members of my Khel. Which is Khadar Khel.

[کیش]

All make sure to ask them more detailed questions next time me or other relatives go to Peshawer or Kabul

[کیش]

I have another uncle who wanted to join the HIG, but was disrespected because they wanted him to recite the Kalimah to them as if they were some God-Sent. They arrested him and took him to a judge who found him not guilty because he was a Muslim. and nobody has the right to question another Muslim about their deen. That is what you call hypocrite. Definitely when they wanted to join the front.

[khushal]

I don't appreciate you insulting my members of my family. You don't know the, yet are quick to label them as a crook. Perhaps, that was with your family was doing so your passing it into mines.

This is the reason why alot of Pashtuns are a bunch of hypocrites. My uncles was imprisoned in the late 70's for planning a coup de tat against the communists, and was tortured for years until escaping captivity. And i remember DJZ, called him a criminal for participating in this noble cause. This lead the communist to seize my families assets, and giving the green light to execute the male relatives and the rape attempts on my female relatives.

I have another fellow Pashtun, Shamlawer, who is pretty much like 99.9% of Pashtuns who curse me to hell for discussing the factual crimes of the Ummayads.

Just because most "Pashtun families" were to craven to fight communist Afghans (even before the Soviets arrived) and Soviets when they rolled through doesn't correlate with members of my Khel. Which is Khadar Khel.

Calm down, I said no offense and probably. I was not referring to the pre soviet invasion era. Now the reason I say probably is because their statements don't make sense. What major battle did he win? If he was such a lion, why did he make agreements with the soviets and according to Prof Rubin the reason he made agreements was because he wanted to survive which proves he was not a lion, a lion does not make agreements to survive.

The guy was no lion, he was a coward, he was a divider, a lion is a uniter. yes the Pashtuns were to craven that's why masood made agreements with the soviets so the soviets can concentrate on where the real fighting was in the south and east so they can take care of the real lions.

[کیش]

To be fair, I never said he was a lion. I said he did participate in battles and said he was a pretty good general in his own regards. Claiming he never fought during the 80's is bias, untruthful and lying to yourself.

I also said he definitely played a part in destroying Kabul in the 90's. And the mortar which killed my other youth cousin could've been fired from ASM's men.

[khushal]

Your words:

Say what you want about Ahmad Shah Massoud, but he was a lion in his battles with the Soviets.

A lot of my family members fought alongside him in the Soviet war and they always remark his courage on the battlefield.

My older cousin (obviously a Pashtun) who fought in battle with him told us about this one story when a Soviet platoon raped and chopped of a females breast and sent it to him as a message. Massoud was so enraged that his platoon battled with that Soviet brigade for 18 hours straight, only suffering light casualties.

I know this thread isn't really about him, but I know people who don't know him or the people in his group, call them cowards who refused to fight. They couldn't be any more wrong in their assessment.

[khushal]

If he played a part in destroying Kabul, how did he serve afghan interests? did Slobadon serve Yugoslav interests?

the never fighting is true, its confirmed by all the sources and all sides as I stated already.

[khushal]

Ahmad Shah Massoud's Secret Agreement with russians BBC report.......... - YouTube

[khushal]

Bruce G. Richardson on Ahmad Shah Massoud's links to the Russians - YouTube