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  • U.S. Considers Faster Pullout In Afghanistan

    WASHINGTON — Increasingly frustrated by his dealings with President Hamid Karzai, President Obama is giving serious consideration to speeding up the withdrawal of United States forces from Afghanistan and to a “zero option” that would leave no American troops there after next year, according to American and European officials.

    Mr. Obama is committed to ending America’s military involvement in Afghanistan by the end of 2014, and Obama administration officials have been negotiating with Afghan officials about leaving a small “residual force” behind. But his relationship with Mr. Karzai has been slowly unraveling, and reached a new low after an effort last month by the United States to begin peace talks with the Taliban in Qatar.

    Mr. Karzai promptly repudiated the talks and ended negotiations with the United States over the long-term security deal that is needed to keep American forces in Afghanistan after 2014.

    A videoconference between Mr. Obama and Mr. Karzai designed to defuse the tensions ended badly, according to both American and Afghan officials with knowledge of the conversation. Mr. Karzai, according to those sources, accused the United States of trying to negotiate a separate peace with both the Taliban and its backers in Pakistan, leaving Afghanistan’s fragile government exposed to its enemies.

    Mr. Karzai has made similar accusations in the past. But those comments were delivered to Afghans — not to Mr. Obama, who responded by pointing out the American lives that have been lost propping up Mr. Karzai’s government, the officials said.

    The option of leaving no troops in Afghanistan after 2014 was gaining momentum before the June 27 video conference, according to the officials. But since then, the idea of a complete military exit similar to the American military pullout from Iraq has gone from being considered the worst-case scenario — and a useful negotiating tool with Mr. Karzai — to an alternative under serious consideration in Washington and Kabul.

    The officials cautioned that no decisions had been made on the pace of the pullout and exactly how many American troops to leave behind in Afghanistan. The goal remains negotiating a long-term security deal, they said, but the hardening of negotiating stances on both sides could result in a repeat of what happened in Iraq, where a deal failed to materialize despite widespread expectations that a compromise would be reached and American forces would remain.

    “There’s always been a zero option, but it was not seen as the main option,” said a senior Western official in Kabul. “It is now becoming one of them, and if you listen to some people in Washington, it is maybe now being seen as a realistic path.”

    The official, however, said he hoped some in the Karzai government were beginning to understand that the zero option was now a distinct possibility, and that “they’re learning now, not later, when it’s going to be too late.”

    The Obama administration’s internal deliberations about the future of the Afghan war were described by officials in Washington and Kabul who hold a range of views on how quickly the United States should leave Afghanistan and how many troops it should leave behind. Spokesmen for the White House and Pentagon declined to comment.

    Within the Obama administration, the way the United States extricates itself from Afghanistan has been a source of tension between civilian and military officials since Mr. Obama took office. American commanders in Afghanistan have generally pushed to keep as many American troops in the country as long as possible, creating friction with White House officials urging a speedier military withdrawal.

    But with frustrations mounting over the glacial pace of initiating peace talks with the Taliban, and with American relations with the Karzai government continuing to deteriorate, it is unclear whether the Pentagon and American commanders in Afghanistan would vigorously resist if the White House pushed for a full-scale pullout months ahead of schedule.

    As it stands now, the number of American troops in Afghanistan — around 63,000 — is scheduled to go down to 34,000 by February 2014. The White House has said that the vast majority of troops would be out of Afghanistan by the end of that year, although it now appears that the schedule could accelerate to bring the bulk of the troops — if not all of them — home by next summer, as the annual fighting season winds down.

    Talks between the United States and Afghanistan over a long-term security deal have faltered in recent months over the Afghan government’s insistence that the United States guarantee Afghanistan’s security and, in essence, commit to declaring Pakistan the main obstacle in the fight against militancy in the region.

    The guarantees sought by Afghanistan, if implemented, could possibly compel the United States to attack Taliban havens in Pakistan long after 2014, when the Obama administration has said it hoped to dial back the C.I.A.’s covert drone war there.

    Mr. Karzai also wants the Obama administration to specify the number of troops it would leave in Afghanistan after 2014 and make a multiyear financial commitment to the Afghan Army and the police.

    The White House announced last month that long-delayed talks with the Taliban would begin in Doha, Qatar, where the Taliban opened what amounts to an embassy-in-exile, complete with their old flag and a plaque with their official name, “The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.”

    But the highly choreographed announcement backfired, with Afghan officials saying the talks gave the insurgents undeserved legitimacy and accusing the Obama administration of negotiating behind Mr. Karzai’s back.

    To the surprise of American officials, Mr. Karzai then abruptly ended the negotiations over a long-term security deal. He has said that the negotiations would not resume until the Taliban met directly with representatives of the Afghan government, essentially linking the security negotiations to a faltering peace process and making the United States responsible for persuading the Taliban to talk to the Afghan government.

    The Taliban has refused for years to meet directly with Afghan government negotiators, derided Mr. Karzai and his ministers as American puppets.

    There have been other points of contention as well. Meeting with foreign ambassadors recently, Mr. Karzai has openly mused that the West was to blame for the rise of radical Islam. It was not a message that many of the envoys, whose countries have lost thousands of people in Afghanistan and spent billions of dollars fighting the Taliban, welcomed.

    The troop decisions are also being made against a backdrop of growing political uncertainty in Afghanistan and rising concerns that the country’s presidential election could either be delayed for months or longer, or be so flawed that many Afghans would not accept its results.

    Preparations for the election, scheduled for next April, are already falling behind. United Nations officials have begun to say the elections probably cannot be held until next summer, at the earliest. If the voting does not occur before Afghanistan’s mountain passes are closed by snow in late fall, it would be extremely difficult to hold a vote until 2015.

    Of potentially bigger concern are the rumors that Mr. Karzai, in his second term and barred from serving a third, is trying to find a way to stay in power. Mr. Karzai has repeatedly insisted that he plans to step down next year.

    The ripple effects of a complete American withdrawal would be significant. Western officials said the Germans and Italians — the two main European allies who have committed to staying on with substantial forces — would leave as well. Any smaller nations that envisioned keeping token forces would most likely have no way of doing so.

    And Afghanistan would probably see far less than the roughly $8 billion in annual military and civilian aid it is expecting in the coming years — an amount that covers more than half the government’s annual spending.


    Mark Mazzetti reported from Washington, and Matthew Rosenberg from Kabul, Afghanistan. Thom Shanker contributed reporting from Washington.

    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/09/wo...nted=all&_r=1&
    It's enough that I know, Our time had a home, In your heart..Was a place..But the glass always breaks..

  • #2
    [MENTION=164]Talal[/MENTION]
    I call it propaganda. The US would never consider leaving Afghanistan; this is simply a way to exert pressure on the Karzai government. It is too much of a 'strategic victory' despite all the casualties. From Afghanistan, you Pakistan by the nuts, China, Iran, and literally most 'players' by the nuts.
    Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

    A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

    For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


    The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

    -Ferishta, 1560–1620

    Comment


    • #3
      [MENTION=2]Admin Khan[/MENTION]

      Thats a lot of nuts lol
      It's enough that I know, Our time had a home, In your heart..Was a place..But the glass always breaks..

      Comment


      • #4
        [MENTION=164]Talal[/MENTION]
        But jokes aside, CNN had an article on this today explaining how Karzai has a strategic card here, that is the location of Afghanistan. I mean, the nation even borders China, the US rival.
        Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

        A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

        For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


        The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

        -Ferishta, 1560–1620

        Comment


        • #5
          @Admin
          the US can watch
          1. Iran from Kuwait and the Gulf
          2. Russia from Germany, turkey, Georgia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan
          3. China from South Korea, Tiawan, Japan, India, (there are like a hundred bases in SE Asia.
          4. They can watch Pakistan from Pakistan(they have a base in the country)

          Comment


          • #6
            They won´t leave. Afghanistan is too important for them. But if you study their foreign policy of the last 3 or 4 decades you can clear out that US is now pushing for a virtual partition of Afghanistan. They want to give Taliban some provinces to administrate, while withdrawing with their main forces from the country. A small number of troops will support the ANA and Northern Alliance to keep that border protected to their natural treasures in the north while we will left alone without anything. Similar events of the past: North Korea - South Korea, Vietnam, today Iraq, Kosovo, Albania. You can count more states for this.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Registerwal View Post
              They won´t leave. Afghanistan is too important for them. But if you study their foreign policy of the last 3 or 4 decades you can clear out that US is now pushing for a virtual partition of Afghanistan. They want to give Taliban some provinces to administrate, while withdrawing with their main forces from the country. A small number of troops will support the ANA and Northern Alliance to keep that border protected to their natural treasures in the north while we will left alone without anything. Similar events of the past: North Korea - South Korea, Vietnam, today Iraq, Kosovo, Albania. You can count more states for this.
              shut up you miserable tajokistoni troll

              Comment


              • #8
                President Obama has already hinted that the primary objective of Afghanistan mission, eliminating Alqeada in Afghanistan, has been met. There is a strong possibility the Americans will pack up earlier, telling the public that the job is done. The pathetic American public who take stupid celebrities, and what they call their wardrobe malfunctions more serious than the current affairs, will take it as a victory while forgetting about the lies they had been told just before the invasion.
                The whole American mission was a result of a one person's arrogance. Bush simply screwed up things when he stuck to his vengeful mindset. Everyone except the Bush and his close aids (including the war-savvy US military generals) believed that the war was going to beget nothing except a humiliation and further destruction. That's why the first thing Obama did after getting to the White House was to announce a draw down. The American people want their boys to return home as soon as possible and the government is looking for a really good excuse to make the shameful defeat look a 'strategic maneuver'. Putting all the blame on President Karzai and getting out of the country sounds a viable option that can convince the American public.
                We know the American government doesn't really give a hack about what the rest of the world thinks about America.
                "Da bado sakha sha zezhi, da sho sakha washa zezhi"

                - Hajjanai Adeh

                Comment


                • #9
                  Afghan trust the americans alot these days.

                  but unlike countries like iraq the afghanistan has nothing to contribute to USA in the future.neither money nor any strategic importance.

                  believe it or not but the same american which afghan supports by now will divide you guys.

                  Afghanistan should have better relations with iran,pakistan and there other neighbours
                  "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Da Bannu Mazdigar View Post
                    Afghan trust the americans alot these days.

                    but unlike countries like iraq the afghanistan has nothing to contribute to USA in the future.neither money nor any strategic importance.

                    believe it or not but the same american which afghan supports by now will divide you guys.

                    Afghanistan should have better relations with iran,pakistan and there other neighbours
                    We Pashtuns can not trust our own fellows, leave the Afghan can´t trust Afghan part. Afghanistan´s regional situation is a very important strategic point. Of course we play a very good role and very important to US. Even Pakistan want us. US wants our rich country because of gas, oil, diamonds, and other stuff. From Afghanistan US can coordinate it´s Watch Dog role to all Asian states. Hilmand is full of rare earth.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Registerwal View Post
                      We Pashtuns can not trust our own fellows, leave the Afghan can´t trust Afghan part. Afghanistan´s regional situation is a very important strategic point. Of course we play a very good role and very important to US. Even Pakistan want us. US wants our rich country because of gas, oil, diamonds, and other stuff. From Afghanistan US can coordinate it´s Watch Dog role to all Asian states. Hilmand is full of rare earth.
                      these are just myths.

                      otherwise America would have started the extraction long back.?
                      do you know the natural resources of pakistan?

                      they are of use only if extracted otherwise not

                      Afghan doesnt has any strategic importance.For afghanistan usa has to give billions to pakistan for a supply route.

                      as i said earlier post 2020 you will notice a different attitude of USA with dividing the afghanistan into many new countries
                      "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nazar View Post
                        President Obama has already hinted that the primary objective of Afghanistan mission, eliminating Alqeada in Afghanistan, has been met. There is a strong possibility the Americans will pack up earlier, telling the public that the job is done. The pathetic American public who take stupid celebrities, and what they call their wardrobe malfunctions more serious than the current affairs, will take it as a victory while forgetting about the lies they had been told just before the invasion.
                        The whole American mission was a result of a one person's arrogance. Bush simply screwed up things when he stuck to his vengeful mindset. Everyone except the Bush and his close aids (including the war-savvy US military generals) believed that the war was going to beget nothing except a humiliation and further destruction. That's why the first thing Obama did after getting to the White House was to announce a draw down. The American people want their boys to return home as soon as possible and the government is looking for a really good excuse to make the shameful defeat look a 'strategic maneuver'. Putting all the blame on President Karzai and getting out of the country sounds a viable option that can convince the American public.
                        We know the American government doesn't really give a hack about what the rest of the world thinks about America.
                        Bush had a lot of supporters from both parties so it was not one person and Obamas first order was a troop surge. the whole AQ thing was BS. OBL wasn't even charged with the 911 attacks and they were telling the American public they were fighting AQ fighters in Afghanistan while at the same time the CIA was saying there were only like 100 AQ fighters in the whole country and in reality they were fighting Pashtuns that did not want foreigners on their soil.

                        The blunder completely lies on the US. Karzai wanted a formal peace agreement with the Taliban back in 2002 when Bush prevented him and now the US is making peace with the Taliban and leaving Karzai out of it. Karzai was used like toilet paper from the beginning and he is the fall guy and the baighyrat still wants to give the US perm bases.

                        America like the British before them have one goal and that is to dominate trade and commerce by having mafia type mini bosses that could deliver the masses whole sale to the big boss by any means necessary. They don't care about human rights nor rights for women. If the Taliban abused human rights, well so does the NATO backed NA.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Registerwal View Post
                          We Pashtuns can not trust our own fellows, leave the Afghan can´t trust Afghan part. Afghanistan´s regional situation is a very important strategic point. Of course we play a very good role and very important to US. Even Pakistan want us. US wants our rich country because of gas, oil, diamonds, and other stuff. From Afghanistan US can coordinate it´s Watch Dog role to all Asian states. Hilmand is full of rare earth.
                          your not Pashtun, your the son a Tajik warlord piece of shyt who wants to be the mini boss that services Washington on his knees while thinking Persians are some superior race.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Afghanistan was occupied by the U.S. without the consent of the people of Afghanistan and they have continued to occupy Afghanistan under the false flag of Al-qaida forcibly while fighting Pashtuns who do not want to be under their occupation. It is incredible that they tie their future presence entirely to merely the consent of their own installed man, Hamid Karzai who is referred by many as their puppet.

                            Our doors are open to them and they can leave right now. In any free and fair poll their presence would be rejected. We Pashtuns have suffered a lot under this occupation just like the many before it, and will likely be the losers because we are born like that.

                            I could broadly agree with the loud mouth and uncouth Khushal's above post, for once. lol

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              " considers faster pull-out"


                              That's what she said.
                              [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                              2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

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