A Tale of Two Warriors

[Wowra]

Gentlemen,

I just published this article over at the Small Wars Journal think tank illustrating the different way battle is internalized between American Soldiers and the insurgents they fight. Check it out and let me know what y'all think.

A Tale of Two Warriors: Finding Belongingness after Battle | Small Wars Journal

[یاسمینه]

Could you please elaborate this part of your article, especially the underlined part? Are they your own thoughts?

In theory, a man cannot move onto the next block until the ones beneath are satiated. With respect to these human needs, the symptoms of PTSD and behavior caused by those symptoms more commonly manifest in an American society rather than in Afghanistan’s tribal communities.

[یاسمینه]

Also, why didn't you write about C-PTSD? Comparison of the behavior caused by C-PTSD among Americans and people of Afghanistan would lead to different findings.

[Wowra]

Could you please elaborate this part of your article, especially the underlined part? Are they your own thoughts?

In theory, a man cannot move onto the next block until the ones beneath are satiated. With respect to these human needs, the symptoms of PTSD and behavior caused by those symptoms more commonly manifest in an American society rather than in Afghanistan’s tribal communities.

That's my thesis and what I was hoping to support with the body of the essay. As far as C-PTSD, my understanding is it pertains to the long term exposure to trauma such as:

• Concentration camps
• Prisoner of War camps
• Prostitution brothels
• Long-term domestic violence
• Long-term child physical abuse
• Long-term child sexual abuse
• Organized child exploitation rings

While I understand that you are purporting Afghans may suffer from such a disorder, I think that's an entirely different essay requiring far different support - probably in an APA/ scientific essay which is not something that I write. To my understanding C-PTSD isn't necessarily a diagnosis in some circles but a modification in treatment to classic PTSD. This may have changed in DSM V, but I haven't actually read DSM V and wrote this article before it was released.



What you suppose is an interesting idea though. That an entire nation could be afflicted with the sort of trauma that long term captives face. I like the idea - but I still hold that social connectivity is the cure for PTSD symptoms, and that America's sense of community is long diminished while tribal structures inherently thrive.

[Wowra]

I should also note that I am not a Psychologist or Sociologist - just a casual observer. The article was meant to be a philosophical look comparing composites of Soldiers and Jihadists I know, not meant to be empirical evidence.

[یاسمینه]

People (especially kids) living in Afghanistan or other areas affected by military operations, ethnic cleansing, genocide, trotures, deportations are highly exposed to the C-PTSD. Complex post traumatic sequelae include changes in the mind, emotions, relations, body (chronic pain, certain hormone secretion). As I remember, there was also a study conducted in Kabul, showing that hippocampus of people with C-PTSD is about 15-20% smaller than among people not affected by C-PTSD. Hippocampus is important for the formation of new memories, detection of places, peoples etc. You can imagine the consequences of hippocampus disorder in everyday life.

If it comes to blocks and physiological needs... Do you think that permanent hunger and activity focused mainly on getting anything to eat can not turn into C-PTSD?

Your essay - if you wanted to present your private thoughts, it is okay. I can agree with them or disagree, but I have no right to deny them. However if you clumsy and selectively mix it with science, trying to find a scientific basis for yor observations, then you are wrong.

Reading your short bio I assume that you spent some time in Afghanistan, maybe as a part of HTT or so. The more I am amazed that you know so little about this country and its people, that is was so easy to you to conclude that symptoms [of PTSD] more commonly manifest in an American society rather than in Afghanistan’s tribal communities. In my opinion it is a very superficial statement.

[Wowra]

People (especially kids) living in Afghanistan or other areas affected by military operations, ethnic cleansing, genocide, trotures, deportations are highly exposed to the C-PTSD. Complex post traumatic sequelae include changes in the mind, emotions, relations, body (chronic pain, certain hormone secretion). As I remember, there was also a study conducted in Kabul, showing that hippocampus of people with C-PTSD is about 15-20% smaller than among people not affected by C-PTSD. Hippocampus is important for the formation of new memories, detection of places, peoples etc. You can imagine the consequences of hippocampus disorder in everyday life.

If it comes to blocks and physiological needs... Do you think that permanent hunger and activity focused mainly on getting anything to eat can not turn into C-PTSD?

Your essay - if you wanted to present your private thoughts, it is okay. I can agree with them or disagree, but I have no right to deny them. However if you clumsy and selectively mix it with science, trying to find a scientific basis for yor observations, then you are wrong.

Reading your short bio I assume that you spent some time in Afghanistan, maybe as a part of HTT or so. The more I am amazed that you know so little about this country and its people, that is was so easy to you to conclude that symptoms [of PTSD] more commonly manifest in an American society rather than in Afghanistan’s tribal communities. In my opinion it is a very superficial statement.

Well, since Psychology and Social Psychology aren't actually real science and can only be either supported or not supported, I don't take much offense. There's never a conclusive answer in those fields - like I said, there's a large contingent of psychologists that doesn't believe in C-PTSD. There's even a contingent of psychologist that don't believe in PTSD at all. But its fantastic you are so convicted in your beliefs.

At no point in this essay was it intended to reflect Kabul - take your psychology to Chak, Wardak or Gowardesh, Kunar and let me know how you fair. I don't think the stretched and bedazzled jeans of Kabul necessarily aptly reflect tribal society.

[یاسمینه]

But its fantastic you are so convicted in your beliefs.
Intensive research on combat stress/ PTSD began after Vietnam so I think there was a reson for it. US government still funds researches on this. McCain's case also contributed to that. Honestly, I don't think that your government would spend money on a non-existent disease.
But of course you can believe what you want.

At no point in this essay was it intended to reflect Kabul - take your psychology to Chak, Wardak or Gowardesh, Kunar and let me know how you fair. I don't think the stretched and bedazzled jeans of Kabul necessarily aptly reflect tribal society.
Well, if C-PTSD was observed in Kabul, I can guess that situation is distant areas is similar or worse. When I have more time I will post in the kitabtoon results of another study, more representative for tribal society.

(Another issue is to what extent Western methodology can be properly applied to other, so different community).

.

[ډګروال]

Well, since Psychology and Social Psychology aren't actually real science and can only be either supported or not supported, I don't take much offense. There's never a conclusive answer in those fields - like I said, there's a large contingent of psychologists that doesn't believe in C-PTSD. There's even a contingent of psychologist that don't believe in PTSD at all. But its fantastic you are so convicted in your beliefs.

At no point in this essay was it intended to reflect Kabul - take your psychology to Chak, Wardak or Gowardesh, Kunar and let me know how you fair. I don't think the stretched and bedazzled jeans of Kabul necessarily aptly reflect tribal society.

Very nice article

it seems you have understanding of people in Afghanistan and regarding this subject you are spot on.My own experience have been the same,people back home are much more happy and stress free and behave in much more civilized manner. Someone suffering from ptsd is rare.

Its also very good that you kept it short and simple the part about Afghanistan, it is really short and simple.

the symptoms of PTSD and behavior caused by those symptoms more commonly manifest in an American society rather than in Afghanistan’s tribal communities.

In America most people are born into relative safety where their physiological needs are a given. Likewise, their identity, socioeconomic or ethnic group is provided, which leaves a modern man only the chore of figuring out the man he is and the man he wants to be. In tribal communities, these first two blocks are not necessarily met.
this is very true ,

wawra
have you visited Kunar?
which part?

[Wowra]

Wo, canah! Penzalas miarsht ze alta woseegum. Pa Asmar ke, pa Naray ke, pa Bari Kot ke ow pa Gowardesh ke! Kunar ze deyr kwakouma.

It's perhaps the most beautiful and beautifully misunderstood place on earth. Some of my closest friends and most life changing relationships happened there.

I'm glad you appreciated the article, brother. It's not as "in depth" or solid as some of my more recent articles, but I wanted average Americans to read it as well - because the average American forms the fractured society we live in. Its sort of meant to be a conversation starter vs. a lock-tight argument. I think its working - we have our local shrink here discussing views and a few on the site discussing their views.

Have you been to Kunar? Dok Ilam pohiggye? Nizda Arandu Pakistan ow Bari Kot ow Gowardesh pa menske. That's perhaps my most favorite place on Earth.

[Kushan Prince]

Wowra are you pashtun?

[Wowra]

Na, KP - just a culturally diffused faraingee haha

[Kushan Prince]

^Then what are you?

[Wowra]

Just a regular old American. The most obnoxious kind, to be exact: A Texan. haha

[ډګروال]

Wo, canah! Penzalas miarsht ze alta woseegum. Pa Asmar ke, pa Naray ke, pa Bari Kot ke ow pa Gowardesh ke! Kunar ze deyr kwakouma.

It's perhaps the most beautiful and beautifully misunderstood place on earth. Some of my closest friends and most life changing relationships happened there.

I'm glad you appreciated the article, brother. It's not as "in depth" or solid as some of my more recent articles, but I wanted average Americans to read it as well - because the average American forms the fractured society we live in. Its sort of meant to be a conversation starter vs. a lock-tight argument. I think its working - we have our local shrink here discussing views and a few on the site discussing their views.

Have you been to Kunar? Dok Ilam pohiggye? Nizda Arandu Pakistan ow Bari Kot ow Gowardesh pa menske. That's perhaps my most favorite place on Earth.

aw kunar deer ekhkolay zay dai,khalak am pakay kha dee.
zem duh Kunar ema. dham kalay pejaney?