Kabul blast:

[RevolutionThroughReason]

If you want to condemn something, do it in a civil way, not in a way that'll make you look cheap.

yeah how could he, showing human misery caused by someone's wreckless decisions, so cheap.

I mean something like that would only attack the moral conscience of people who support these cretins.

[khushal]

Alot of crimes are committed by "thuggish troops", that´s a fact.
The question remains: what´s the alternative?

The alternative are Taliban troops who will sweep across Afghanistan and commit even bigger atrocities than Sebrenica. I am sure that specially Central Afghanistan and Mazar will be a big pool of blood and to be honest, that´s an idea I am definitly not 100% against (lol), but the alternative has no future. It will be a collapsed state with one good thing: security.
Every other sector of life will be dead.

Who wants that?

This is your opinion Mostafa probably formed after watching FoxNewsChannel. lol
This report says otherwise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=aYDzRKeE7y0

[MostafaM]

Mushreqis have always been the most stable Mostafa regardless of education and that is because feudalistic land structures have been able to take hold there because of large valleys much like the peshawar valley and the other settled areas of KP and the Junabis have always lived in tribal structures because of its rugged geography and feudalistic land structures are close to impossible to take hold similar to FATA. People in Junabi and FATA view autonomy and the tribal way of life as in their best interest, its hard for an elite class of feudal landlords to develop.

You mean that the amount of furtile land is the source for stability?
This thesis can be true but then I ask myself why the same doesn´t apply for Khost?

Khost has large areas of furtile land but in remained in state of tribal wars untill the population of Khost became a little more educated than the rest of Junubi.

Junubi is cut off from major routes of transportation for goods etc.
Mashreqi has always been an area frequently crossed by people from Kabul to Peshawar, businessmen etc.

Societies evolve from tribal to feudal to industrial and you need certain variables to go from ones stage to the next. Remember when Nadir shah was put on the throne by Paktiwals tribals, all paktiawals asked for in return was autonomy, an agreement that Kabul would not interfere with them much like FATA with the Brits and later on pakistan.

Yes, I know of this incident.
Paktiawals were freed from doing military service.
They saw being part of an army as an obligation they didn´t want to do.
They revolted against roads and schools, too, because they saw roads as a threat where an army could march on from Kabul to their areas and schools would make their kids "speen stergey".

Paktiawals(junabis) are a very educated class of people just like the mushraqis, the problem is that most paktiawals that get their education migrate to the jalalabad valley, Kabul valley, peshawar valley, etc. Its very hard for them to stay in the rugged highlands to properly exercise their new skills, in other words its more difficult to build institution with that kind of structure, its much easier for them to migrate to a place that has a structure where institutions are easier to build. One of the reasons that the Capital was moved from Kandahar to Kabul was because Kabul was mostly detribalized and it was easier to administer from Kabul.

I am sorry but I really dont know where you got this from.
Paktiawals couldnt have been very educated like the rest IF on their land no schools were build.
When was the University of Khost established? Do you know that?
Paktiawals had to join Military School in Kabul so their kids would get a good education. Was there any opportunity for the rest of the kids there to go to school?

And your other arguement why Kabul was chosen as the capital:
it´s inaccurate.
Ahmad Shah´s son tried to avoid the inner-Kandari conflicts but it´s widely known that he, as a poet in Farsi, and a lover of this culture favoured Kabul over Kandahar.

The tribal councils are democratic so everyone participates and everyone well being is heard and the fate of the people are directly decided by the people themselves. The problem is that the tribal councils are autonomous and putting them under a centralized system is creating a violent backlash. What most American soldiers would tell you including the forum member Siinnii is what they witness is the villagers demand that everyone including the government and the taliban stay out of their affairs.

The tribal councils in places where equals meet other equals on eye-level are democratic. That is true to certain tribes in the Junubi area.
But this is unfortunatly not a reality everywhere.

The position of Khan/Elder is almost everytime given to the son of a deceased elder. How democratic is that?

Tribal elders have misused their powers.
I am pretty sure you know of the Mangal Mutiny under Mullah-e Lang against the Kabul Monarchy.
Do you really think that the whole tribe had anything to say in that decission making process to revolt?

History tells a different story.

[MostafaM]

This is your opinion Mostafa probably formed after watching FoxNewsChannel. lol
This report says otherwise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=aYDzRKeE7y0

Well, FoxNews is a channel that doesn´t broadcast in Germany.
And since I don´t have a TV, your arguement is somehow lame, Dr. Phil. lol

Your report from 2009 says that Taliban in Nuristan have learned what "public relations" mean.

I don´t know what those kids are being taught and how much it will help sociaty.

I can only judge the Taliban for 1996-2001 and for what they did during their insurgency.

If they have learned a thing or two, they will have to adjust in the future and realize that a madrassa curriculum will not produce the leadership we need on a social and technical level.

[Toramana]

I have head that among Pashtuns, Mashriqis are over-represented in ANA compared to south Pashtuns who are under-represented? Is that true?

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

I have head that among Pashtuns, Mashriqis are over-represented in ANA compared to south Pashtuns who are under-represented? Is that true?

Majority of Khalqis, Parchamis among Pashtuns are from the South. Their sons are the ones who are eager to join the National Army and Police.

There is a large chunk of Laghmanis in the ANA and ANP. But this is because they are practically the same Kabulis.

Regarding Mashriqiwal, majority of "mullahs" and radicals in madrassahs are originally from Kunar, Laghman and Nangarhar. Basically, the people who teach people to blow themselves all hail from Mashriqi. In fact, the only part of Afghanistan with a significant Salafi minority is Mashriqi.

Your assumption that Mashriqiwal are somehow more secular and progressive is is not supporting by any kind of hard facts.

[Catya Sher]

Where is Mashriqi - ?!

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Where is Mashriqi - ?!

Mashriq means east in Arabic. Mashriqi is everything east of Kabul all the way to Peshawar. That includes three provinces: Laghman, Kunar and Nangarhar.
Some people consider Pashtuns in Kabul and parts of Logar as Mashriqiwal due to their common accent.

[khushal]

You mean that the amount of furtile land is the source for stability?
This thesis can be true but then I ask myself why the same doesn´t apply for Khost?
Khost has large areas of furtile land but in remained in state of tribal wars untill the population of Khost became a little more educated than the rest of Junubi.

Junubi is cut off from major routes of transportation for goods etc.
Mashreqi has always been an area frequently crossed by people from Kabul to Peshawar, businessmen etc.

Yes, I know of this incident.
Paktiawals were freed from doing military service.
They saw being part of an army as an obligation they didn´t want to do.
They revolted against roads and schools, too, because they saw roads as a threat where an army could march on from Kabul to their areas and schools would make their kids "speen stergey".

I am sorry but I really dont know where you got this from.
Paktiawals couldnt have been very educated like the rest IF on their land no schools were build.
When was the University of Khost established? Do you know that?
Paktiawals had to join Military School in Kabul so their kids would get a good education. Was there any opportunity for the rest of the kids there to go to school?

Khost stability has nothing to do with its recent education facility. It had more to do with the closure of the parachinar/tel highway due to the conflict between the TTP and the Turis. It is now getting worse because that highway has been reopened due to the peace between the two groups. Even though Khost is a fertile valley, it is still surrounded by rugged landscape with tribal social structures hence it is more isolated compared to cities like jalalabad.

Your wrong about the education level of Junabis, Most of the administration of Zahir Shah and Daud Khan were run by Junabis, the majority of the Communists were Janabis and most of their administrators were junabis. These were educated people. The reason that Junabis have had more influence in Kabul than Mushraqis is because as I said before, they have no choice but to migrate. Mushraqis stay put in their respective towns and cities(basically their general area.)

Paktiawals sent their kids to military schools not because they had no other choice but because the military had the most influence in the country and they viewed it as the best way to get ahead. Paktiawals had more motivation to either move to Kabul or send their kids to Kabul where the best education and institution were and as you say there were not that many schools in Paktia for them compared to mushraqis who did have them and had no motivation to move to Kabul. I would say that Junabis have had more influence in Kabul than any other group in the country because of this factor.

And your other arguement why Kabul was chosen as the capital:
it´s inaccurate.
Ahmad Shah´s son tried to avoid the inner-Kandari conflicts but it´s widely known that he, as a poet in Farsi, and a lover of this culture favoured Kabul over Kandahar.

But the inner Kandahari conflict existed because of tribal conflicts. Even the first Moghul emperor administered from Kabul. It had very little to do with his love for Farsi because he could have chosen Mazar, Balkh who at the time were predominantly Persian where Kabul was more cosmopolitan with a considerable Pashtun population. Its just a more natural place to administer from.

The tribal councils in places where equals meet other equals on eye-level are democratic. That is true to certain tribes in the Junubi area.
But this is unfortunatly not a reality everywhere.

The position of Khan/Elder is almost everytime given to the son of a deceased elder. How democratic is that?

Tribal elders have misused their powers.
I am pretty sure you know of the Mangal Mutiny under Mullah-e Lang against the Kabul Monarchy.
Do you really think that the whole tribe had anything to say in that decission making process to revolt?

History tells a different story.

The positioned of elder is not passed to son, this is a myth. A masher has to be wise during peace time and courageous during war time. The son does not always have the wisdom or the courage of his father. The leadership position of the Masud tribe was not handed over to the brother/son/cousin of baitulah masud, it was handed over to the next tough guy who had proven himself.

The Mangal tribe prides itself as very independent, historically they have rebelled against all leaders in Kabul including the Taliban. It is impossible for a tribe to make a decision without the support of the majority of the tribesmen for that decision. If the tribe is going to rebel, it needs fighting men to rebel and those fighting men have to support the rebellion. how else are they going to rebel if they are not for it. You cant force Pashtun men to fight for you if they are not for it, if that was the case, the ANA would not need 12+ years to be trained. Tribal elders are only as powerful as the people that back them, they don't have money to actually have an army on payroll. The fighting men fight on a voluntary basis.

[pashtanajan]

Majority of Khalqis, Parchamis among Pashtuns are from the South. Their sons are the ones who are eager to join the National Army and Police.

There is a large chunk of Laghmanis in the ANA and ANP. But this is because they are practically the same Kabulis.

Regarding Mashriqiwal, majority of "mullahs" and radicals in madrassahs are originally from Kunar, Laghman and Nangarhar. Basically, the people who teach people to blow themselves all hail from Mashriqi. In fact, the only part of Afghanistan with a significant Salafi minority is Mashriqi.

Your assumption that Mashriqiwal are somehow more secular and progressive is is not supporting by any kind of hard facts.

My mother's side is from mashriqi. The majority of them have studied abroad. My great grandfather spoke fluent English, and one of his sons studied in Oxford in the 20s or 30s. Then again, they were an affluent family. However, education has always been a priority for most mashriqiwal, even the poor know its value there. However, such cannot be said for my father's family, who though are affluent and well-off, do not see the value of education, sadly (they're from Kunduz).

Anyway, it's hard proving almost any concept regarding Afghanistan with hard facts. However, generally the souther you go, the less progressive people become due to their stronger compliance to their tribe. Intermixing is more common the more north you go, and intermixing and discourse with other ethnicities usually results in more progressive thoughts and a liberal mind.

[pashtanajan]

Where is Mashriqi - ?!

Mashriqi usually refers to the people of Nangarhar in conversation, but geographically it's the eastern provinces of Afghanistan (Laghman, Nangarhar, etc.)

[Catya Sher]

Thank you very much, Pashtanajan !

I appreciate learning that !

[Excellent quotation by Socrates - a true sage for the ages]