Karzai to visit India; Afghans look for enhanced defence ties

[Talal]

Thanks Comrade, I honestly do not see any respite for Pakistan or Afghanistan in the near future. With civil leadership weak in both countries and up against really tough opposition, they have no choice but to seek US support. With armed leadership strong in both countries and at odds with their respective civil regimes, it will keep fighting towards its own goals. US plays both the armed and civil leaderships according to its own agenda. AF-PAK in mayhem and at each other's throats suits them very well for now to keep the region unstable so that Russia and China remain checked.

As far as Karzai is concerned, I think someone else would have maybe done a better job. Its hard to say, his powers are limited and the coalition he has to maintain requires him to rely extensively on US and tolerate everything they are doing in Afghanistan in addition to showering all that money through corruption on war lords. Ideal for Afghanistan would be a next president who is ethnic Pashtun and who is able to take Kabul to Kandahar. Unity is what we all need.

[gadoonwal]

so it is ok for pakistan to get weapons from US and west to build strong army but no good for the weak state of afghanistan to defend itself against its enemy.
Afghanistan first must stop corruption and send all warlords and thugs behind bar and build a strong army.CIA agent karzai will not be there forever.Afghans will get full control of their country in the future.
Afghans should know that US and west along with pakistan and iran are using their land.
This is battlefield for the world,s powerfull agencies.
Afghans of all ethnic background should come farword and defend their country.

Nawaz sharif is back and once again his idea of fifth province on the table.

[Talal]

And as I mentioned earlier India is hesitant to oblige.

However, India appears more hesitant this time, largely because of the Pakistan factor. Afghan foreign minister Zalmai Rassoul observed, "A decade ago the BJP government wanted to help us militarily but we refused, due to Pakistan's sensitivities. This time, we are keen, but India is hesitant."

Wary of Pakistan, India hesitant over Karzai wish list for military hardware

A better thing for Karzai would have been to convey these requests through not-so-public diplomatic channels, so as to minimize polarization of Afghan foreign policy.

[Admin Khan]

I think India would definitely(behind curtains)fund and support the Afghan Army. Pakistan being an international migraine, Indian knows Pakistan will use its main export(terrorism) in the region if it does not pass over military to the ANA.

In response, MEA spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said, "There was a discussion on political and security issues, without going into specifics. But he said at the end of Karzai's visit, the nation stood ready to help in all the areas that Afghanistan asked for.

"India is ready to stand by Afghanistan as a close, friendly and historic neighbour through these transitions and will play a due and responsible role in this regard," he added.

Honestly, It is so sad to see these two neighbors at each others throats, despite sharing so much in common.

[Kushan Prince]

I can't trust India for some reason. For some reason i think they will try to get their greasy hands all over Afghanistan's military and involve themselves more in their political scheme after America leaves. I was non skeptical at first but once you come and think about it, every country has a motive. They are not doing it just for stronger relations but for their own peculiar agenda.

Ofourse this could be the silent revenge of the hindus considering their forefathers were ruled by Afghans, but i'm over thinking that scenario.

[Admin Khan]

Well for one thing summer is here and its open season for taliban because to them right now is the best time to hit ANA when new areas all around Afghanistan are being handed over to Afghan Police and Army. The deployments will be fresh so easy to target and with less NATO backup they will be much more deadly. Karzai's overtures make it hard for Pakistan to pursue any other alternative except throwing even more support behind taliban and you will see that in terms of them increasing the border attacks to allow talibs to gain an even greater foothold in the tribal valleys.

Also the thing is if India doesn't oblige karzai and there aren't any indications it will in terms of actual heavy arms then it only serves to embolden Taliban and through them Pakistan in terms of pursuing its own agenda. So really time will tell, but like I said all three countries are going in exact opposite direction.

Talal, what I have highlighted is the very problem with Pakistan. Afghanistan is a sovereign nation, and Pakistan needs to stop supporting terrorism. Pakistan being a terrorism-based nation, who supports and funds terrorism, forces Afghanistan to ask for weapons from India. If Pakistan was a lovely neighbor, Karzai would not be asking India for lethal weapons. Think about it more deeply, Afghanistan has a spy agency with nearly 30,000 thousand agents, and rest assured they too can and will bring chaos(if they haven't already in Karachi and other areas)if Pakistan continues to support terrorism.

What is the end result? Death on both sides. So no need to mention as if its a needed act, or as if Pakistan has any right to back insurgents. You can tell by all the Pakistanis dying in Pakistan that Afghanistan has gained massive soft-power. Afghanistan will continue to[allegedly] support TTP for as long as Pakistan supports the Taliban. This is no longer the 80's Talal, the international community has pledged billions to Afghanistan, and rest assured Afghanistan knows how to hit Pakistan where it hurts as well[think the alleged support for TTP], if it continues to fund terrorism and serve as an international migraine.

Know I understand why most of my Pakistani friends tell strangers they are Indians, because the world knows Pakistan is synonymous with International Terrorism, whereas India is with Information Technology. Both countries need to work on building trust, it is so sad to see the two supporting elements of instability in each other. Pakistan will NEVER progress if Afghanistan is unstable, Pakistani policy makers needs to wake up and realize the obvious.

[Talal]

Talal, what I have highlighted is the very problem with Pakistan. Afghanistan is a sovereign nation, and Pakistan needs to stop supporting terrorism. Pakistan being a terrorism-based nation, who supports and funds terrorism, forces Afghanistan to ask for weapons from India. If Pakistan was a lovely neighbor, Karzai would not be asking India for lethal weapons. Think about it more deeply, Afghanistan has a spy agency with nearly 30,000 thousand agents, and rest assured they too can and will bring chaos(if they haven't already in Karachi and other areas)if Pakistan continues to support terrorism.

What is the end result? Death on both sides. So no need to mention as if its a needed act, or as if Pakistan has any right to back insurgents. You can tell by all the Pakistanis dying in Pakistan that Afghanistan has gained massive soft-power. Afghanistan will continue to[allegedly] support TTP for as long as Pakistan supports the Taliban. This is no longer the 80's Talal, the international community has pledged billions to Afghanistan, and rest assured Afghanistan knows how to hit Pakistan where it hurts as well[think the alleged support for TTP], if it continues to fund terrorism and serve as an international migraine.

Know I understand why most of my Pakistani friends tell strangers they are Indians, because the world knows Pakistan is synonymous with International Terrorism, whereas India is with Information Technology. Both countries need to work on building trust, it is so sad to see the two supporting elements of instability in each other. Pakistan will NEVER progress if Afghanistan is unstable, Pakistani policy makers needs to wake up and realize the obvious.

Its an endless argument Admin Khan but here are the basics on which it is based. Outside world sees three things in Afghanistan;

Taliban - A Pashtun dominated group that has resisted war for over a decade and is poised to regain control of atleast part of the country either through prolonged civil war with the government or through a political settlement.

Afghan Government & Army - Worldwide consensus is that the government is corrupt and has been unable to utilize the aid given and has instead used it to keep a warlord based coalition going. A newly formed army that is struggling to take off. Both the government and army are largely seen as lacking pashtun majority.

Pashtuns - The most dominant group in Afghanistan and only through them can Afghanistan be ruled.

In absolute simplistic terms Pakistan sees;

[Taliban + Pashtuns >>> Karzai + ANA]

Admin Khan your biggest misunderstanding in regards to Afghanistan is this, you think that Taliban need Pakistan or that they wouldn't be a potent force without Pakistan's covert help. Pakistan has no choice but to engage the taliban because they are a group who is right now more powerful than the central government through their sheer fighting spirit and non-centralized warfare. Not to mention when the central Afghan government says that they will wage war on Karachi through the 30000 intelligence agents that definitely doesn't leave any doors open for Pakistan.

The cycles continues

[randolph85]

I think a lot of people here are overestimating karzai, he isn't calculating or cunning.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I think a lot of people here are overestimating karzai, he isn't calculating or cunning.

Smart comment. Puppets are usually not selected for calculation or cunning. Thats the first clue

[Admin Khan]

Its an endless argument Admin Khan but here are the basics on which it is based. Outside world sees three things in Afghanistan;

Taliban - A Pashtun dominated group that has resisted war for over a decade and is poised to regain control of atleast part of the country either through prolonged civil war with the government or through a political settlement.

Afghan Government & Army - Worldwide consensus is that the government is corrupt and has been unable to utilize the aid given and has instead used it to keep a warlord based coalition going. A newly formed army that is struggling to take off. Both the government and army are largely seen as lacking pashtun majority.

Pashtuns - The most dominant group in Afghanistan and only through them can Afghanistan be ruled.

In absolute simplistic terms Pakistan sees;

[Taliban + Pashtuns >>> Karzai + ANA]

Admin Khan your biggest misunderstanding in regards to Afghanistan is this, you think that Taliban need Pakistan or that they wouldn't be a potent force without Pakistan's covert help. Pakistan has no choice but to engage the taliban because they are a group who is right now more powerful than the central government through their sheer fighting spirit and non-centralized warfare. Not to mention when the central Afghan government says that they will wage war on Karachi through the 30000 intelligence agents that definitely doesn't leave any doors open for Pakistan.

The cycles continues

Talal, the only way the Taliban can continue to wage war is with the support of Pakistan, it is your biggest misunderstanding that Taliban would be a potent force without the support of Pakistan. It is no 'hidden fact' that Pakistan supports the Taliban, as they continue to wage war in Afghanistan which leads to death of civilians. Like you said, the cycle continues. For as long as Pakistan supports the Taliban, Afghanistan will support TTP.

The cycle continues; rightly said. Both neighbors need to work on the trust deficit.

[Karachi]

Its an endless argument Admin Khan but here are the basics on which it is based. Outside world sees three things in Afghanistan;

Taliban - A Pashtun dominated group that has resisted war for over a decade and is poised to regain control of atleast part of the country either through prolonged civil war with the government or through a political settlement.

Afghan Government & Army - Worldwide consensus is that the government is corrupt and has been unable to utilize the aid given and has instead used it to keep a warlord based coalition going. A newly formed army that is struggling to take off. Both the government and army are largely seen as lacking pashtun majority.

Pashtuns - The most dominant group in Afghanistan and only through them can Afghanistan be ruled.

In absolute simplistic terms Pakistan sees;

[Taliban + Pashtuns >>> Karzai + ANA]

Admin Khan your biggest misunderstanding in regards to Afghanistan is this, you think that Taliban need Pakistan or that they wouldn't be a potent force without Pakistan's covert help. Pakistan has no choice but to engage the taliban because they are a group who is right now more powerful than the central government through their sheer fighting spirit and non-centralized warfare. Not to mention when the central Afghan government says that they will wage war on Karachi through the 30000 intelligence agents that definitely doesn't leave any doors open for Pakistan.

The cycles continues

Dude most afghans dont like Taliban, at least the ones I have met in Canada, I am pretty sure their popularity in afghanistan is on a all time low now. It's very clear that Pakistan is behind the support, I mean where do they get their weapons from? they have no friends in the world, except Pakistan and maybe Saudi Arabia.

[Talal]

Talal, the only way the Taliban can continue to wage war is with the support of Pakistan, it is your biggest misunderstanding that Taliban would be a potent force without the support of Pakistan. It is no 'hidden fact' that Pakistan supports the Taliban, as they continue to wage war in Afghanistan which leads to death of civilians. Like you said, the cycle continues. For as long as Pakistan supports the Taliban, Afghanistan will support TTP.

The cycle continues; rightly said. Both neighbors need to work on the trust deficit.

We agree to disagree Admin Khan, the current situation however is unlikely to change, much rests on what kind of new leadership will emerge after Afghan presidential elections. I hear Karzai's brother is now in the running.

Dude most afghans dont like Taliban, at least the ones I have met in Canada, I am pretty sure their popularity in afghanistan is on a all time low now. It's very clear that Pakistan is behind the support, I mean where do they get their weapons from? they have no friends in the world, except Pakistan and maybe Saudi Arabia.

The weapons they used are still soviet era weapons and if you have walked in the tribal areas you will see smiths there quite capable at engineering AK-47s. As far as most afghans in Canada hate Taliban well there is a reason why they are in Canada.

I do not intend to strike the old debate here about Taliban popularity, the ground reality (in Afghanistan not Canada) speaks for itself. Everyone is welcome to draw their own conclusions from it.


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The original question was vis-a-vis India, Pakistan has no say nor should it have any say in what the Afghan government intends to do with its foreign partners. But like Admin Khan said the cycle continues and thats the reality.

[Admin Khan]

Dude most afghans dont like Taliban, at least the ones I have met in Canada, I am pretty sure their popularity in afghanistan is on a all time low now. It's very clear that Pakistan is behind the support, I mean where do they get their weapons from? they have no friends in the world, except Pakistan and maybe Saudi Arabia.

Common sense is missing with some Pakistani officials.

[DSM0305]

Look at it from Afghanistan's point of view. Pakistan will continue supporting terrorism regardless of Afghan relation with India. So basically why wouldn't Afghanistan ask for support from India, since no matter what they do the relation between Afghanistan and Pakistan will be same. At least this way Afghanistan will get something out of the situation.

[Toramana]

Talal is a typical Ranjit Singhi---These guys think it is 1990s era when Pakistan had the ability to manipulate things in Afghanistan without the commonsense that Afghanistan has acquired massive soft power and coupled with help from India, US, NATO, Russia, etc. etc. will hit back with the same if not more severity.

Karachi, Baluchistan(Queta especially), FATA, etc. are virtually a dynamite that needs a little bit of fire.

These guys have fought 4 wars with India three over Kashmir and 1 over Bangladesh and in all have been humiliated. But Punjabis can be limitl-y shameful as the Punjabi saying is "ghairat tho ani jani shaiy haiy" (honour can bought and sold at will)...lol