Protest against taliban turns deadly

[KingOfAriana]

(CNN) -- Eleven people were killed in Afghanistan Wednesday when an anti-Pakistan demonstration turned violent, a spokesman for the provincial governor of Kandahar said.
Hundreds of residents of Maiwand District in Kandahar province staged the rally, spokesman Javid Faisal said.
Most of the protesters were chanting against Pakistan, he said.
The demonstration turned violent when an armed group began protesting against the Afghan government and foreign and Afghan forces, Faisal said.
Gunfire broke out between police and the armed group, leaving eight of its members dead as well as three civilian motorists.
Ten people were injured and 30 suspects were arrested, Faisal said. Police also seized a vest made for a suicide bomber and a motorcycle primed with explosives, he said.
Initial investigations show the armed group came from the Pakistani side of the border, he said.
The clash comes against a backdrop of renewed tensions on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Afghan and Pakistani troops have clashed in recent weeks, prompting anti-Pakistan protests by some Afghan residents.

[khushal]

they are protests against pakistan not taliban. trying to deceive like the shaitan. Plus give it a little time, the turht will eventually come out of why the violence broke out. blame it on paksitan before the investigation.

[khushal]

here it is.
Afghan Police Shoot Dead 8 At Protest In Maiwand

Villagers in the town of Maiwand said Afghan police opened fire on hundreds of demonstrators who were protesting raids that Afghan and NATO forces conducted in their village of Loye Karez two days earlier.

[KingOfAriana]

There is no difference between taliban and pakistan, and you know it!

[Admin Khan]

here it is.
Afghan Police Shoot Dead 8 At Protest In Maiwand

Taliban has indeed infiltrated the armed forces, and the local police, so it is NOT utopian to assume that the Taliban could be a variable(although we don't know the full truth, and should refrain from assumptions).

[DaZahroJaam.]

unknown gunmen at a protest against pakistan??

[khushal]

unknown gunmen at a protest against pakistan??

Learn to read. They were protesting against night raids. People in afghansitan are more worried about night raids and bombs falling on them then some border post the US gave to pakistan.

[DaZahroJaam.]

Learn to read. They were protesting against night raids. People in afghansitan are more worried about night raids and bombs falling on them then some border post the US gave to pakistan.

afghans were peacefully protesting against night raids and Pakistan being a terrorist state when a bunch of unknown gunmen came over, initiated a dispute which killed 11 afghan protesters.
You sound so pathetic when you divert attention from a situation at hand to your assumptions. Like who cares for what people claim to be protesting about or what people are admitting to. They were probably forced. Lets talk about US soldiers in Afghanistan.
If border issues didn't exist, Pakistan wouldn't have managed to send its filth in Afghanistan and NATO forces wouldn't even be there.
You don't want afghans getting along with each other. You discredit the army and you don't even want us to question the US giving away our land to others. Your problem is the US presence in Afghanistan and your solution is the lice headed Taliban that appear in the middle of the night like a bunch of thugs and behead people for not supporting them. I guess little pieces of land by the border is not enough for you people. Sounds to me like you don't like sharing. You are after the entire thing.
Honestly, I have not seen you once being happy for a single case of development and progress in Afghanistan. You don't have any suggestions either. All you do is divert attention. You are not fooling anyone.

[Kushan Prince]

There is no difference between taliban and pakistan, and you know it!

No diffrence?

There is a big diffrence my friend, the Taliban WARNED pakistan to stay out of Afghanistan and not cross the over the Durand line or there will be "consequences." I was watching a debate about this with my father on RTA last night when they brought this up. Pretty interesting....

[khushal]

@DZJ
Are you even reading the article. The protesters claimed there were no gunmen in the demonstration so basically the ANA fired on unarmed protesters because they were protesting against them(ANA).
And stop repeating the Karzai lingo of telling the afghans to bend over so the US could leave.

Its you who is not speaking out against armed thugs shooting at unarmed protesters.

[Admin Khan]

@DZJ
Are you even reading the article. The protesters claimed there were no gunmen in the demonstration so basically the ANA fired on unarmed protesters because they were protesting against them(ANA).
And stop repeating the Karzai lingo of telling the afghans to bend over so the US could leave.

Its you who is not speaking out against armed thugs shooting at unarmed protesters.

Khushala, why would the ANA, for no reason, turn fire on Afghan civilians? Lets suppose it did happen, do you agree that there exists a chance that some 'unknown' element funded by a foreigner, were dressed like ANA caused this? What gives you the right to speak in a deterministic manner that it was an official ANA soldier who decided to kill his own folks?

[Admin Khan]

My perception of the article:

We are back to exactly what Gen Kayani wanted, which is Afghanistan SHOULD NOT have an Armed forces. What does our neighbor do? He grabs a spera Pashtun by his neck, tells him that your Armed forces are infidels[as if Pakistan is a pure Islamic state, and as if Pakistan does NOT get funded by the same folks], the naive uneducated Pashtun falls for it, and begins to go out on a shooting spree. If we know that Pakistan CLEARLY objected to an Afghan armed forces, their spies are all over Afghanistan, especially Kandahar, what makes us think most of these 'protests against Armed forces' are not sponsored by the very same nation who did NOT want Afghanistan to have an armed force? We very well know that elements of the Taliban(not all)are funded and trained by the ISI, what makes us think this is not one of their goals?

Afghan Armed Forces should be supported, they are the children of soil, some are on the right track(i.e nation building)some are on the wrong track(i.e abuse of power), it is absolutely wrong to paint an entire armed forces with a single paint brush. It's silly, to say the least.

Caveat:
A Kandahari wants peace in his Kandahar, and throughout Afghanistan. He wants a strong ALP, ANA, corruption-free. He also does NOT want to see his land being grabbed by a foreign nation, that is the worst thing you can do, hence the protest.

[DaZahroJaam.]

@DZJ
Are you even reading the article. The protesters claimed there were no gunmen in the demonstration so basically the ANA fired on unarmed protesters because they were protesting against them(ANA).
And stop repeating the Karzai lingo of telling the afghans to bend over so the US could leave.

Its you who is not speaking out against armed thugs shooting at unarmed protesters.

Most of the protesters were chanting against Pakistan, he said.
The demonstration turned violent when an armed group began protesting against the Afghan government and foreign and Afghan forces, Faisal said.
Gunfire broke out between police and the armed group, leaving eight of its members dead as well as three civilian motorists.
Ten people were injured and 30 suspects were arrested, Faisal said. Police also seized a vest made for a suicide bomber and a motorcycle primed with explosives, he said.
Initial investigations show the armed group came from the Pakistani side of the border, he said.
The clash comes against a backdrop of renewed tensions on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Afghan and Pakistani troops have clashed in recent weeks, prompting anti-Pakistan protests by some Afghan residents.


the article that we are discussing in this thread mentions gunmen not once or twice but more than three times. which protestors claimed that there were no gunmen?? and why are you leaving out the suicide bomber amongst the protestors?? what was he doing there?? should no one had shot at them??

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Khushala, why would the ANA, for no reason, turn fire on Afghan civilians? Lets suppose it did happen, do you agree that there exists a chance that some 'unknown' element funded by a foreigner, were dressed like ANA caused this? What gives you the right to speak in a deterministic manner that it was an official ANA soldier who decided to kill his own folks?

Admin,

a simple question. Why is it that when it comes to nefarious designs we are asked to stretch our imaginations in order to accomodate the duplicity of Pakistanis when the evidence is lacking. You have asked me and Khushal to do this now a number of times. Would it be proper to respond with questions of equal suspicion such as "Let us suppose that Mr. Karzai's past links with the School of the Americas and CIA means he is an implant to subvert an Islamic state?" I mean there are CIA agents abounding beyond Scheuer who have unequivocally stated that autonomous Islamic states in any form are on the hit list. See, its easy to demand someone proves a negative. So another instance would be I could easily say "well these emigres are all persianized" and we all know that this faction was heavily in support of Mohammadzai policy and many of them backed Najib so is it not possible that they staged all of this to divert attention toward Pakistan? These questions are really irrelevent and I think you asking us to supposed that each and every allegation against Pakistan might have an air of truth (e.g. the lack of 10 men killed on the border in any other reports besides Afghan state media) despite the lack of evidence makes the discussion a nonstarter.

Lets look at another report on this incident. Lets also set the stage for why Maiwand MATTERS and why the official report from the Afghan GOVERNMENT spokesman fed to CNN is contradictory.

First:
In the hold and clear strategy as of late in Maiwand was something the coalition took bragging rights for:
http://www.understandingwar.org/othe...trict-kandahar

Second:
There was a lot of egg on the face of both the ANA/ANSF and ISAF when American soldiers were killed there in the largest number of troops killed this year:
http://www.gloucestercitynews.net/cl...ed-attack.html

Third:
The Huffington Post article is written with DIRECT feedback from the protestors NOT FILTERED through the Karzai government spokesman and what does it say???

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3237241.html?

And I hardly thing Ariana Huffington is a Paki.

"Villagers in the town of Maiwand said Afghan police opened fire on hundreds of demonstrators who were protesting raids that Afghan and NATO forces conducted in their village of Loye Karez two days earlier."

So now, who is telling this tale of Taliban and Pakistani infiltrators into the gathering in addition to the Afghan spokesman cited by CNN????

Well, the murdering Ismat Muslim relative son of a -biatch Abdul Raziq:

"Kandahar Provincial Police Chief Gen. Abdul Raziq said Taliban insurgents had infiltrated the demonstration."

And, the man on the street is saying the exact opposite of Mr Raziq:

"Abdul Qayyum, a 45-year-old demonstrator, disputed that, telling The Associated Press by phone that "there were no Taliban among the protesters."
"The local people of Maiwand district are so upset and unhappy with the government and the foreigners because they are conducting night raids on the houses of local people," he said. "With no reason, they are entering local houses and doing whatever they want. We don't want all these things to keep happening to us."

3) Now for Mr Razeq... has he tried this ruse in the past? Yes, this expose in the esteemed Atlantic Monthly showed how this murdering horribl example of a human being killed off a family of NON TALIBAN opponents from the Nurzai tribe (Razeq is Achakzai) to clear up a vandetta from his dad's day:

This ground level expose by Mr Aikens, who knows dari, and went under cover to investigate this (including talking to Qandaharis from Shin's Nurzai tribe and family) blows a hole in Razeq's credibility. Mike Semple, from Harvard University did his own investigation and was thrown out by the Karzai government after years of service to Afghanistan. Here are the key quotes that show that Razeq even murdered a child and used the Pakistan and Taliban as ane excuse:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...ndahar/308653/

"Raziq and Lalai had together lured Shin and his associates to Kabul. The tribes to which Raziq and Shin belonged had been feuding over smuggling routes, and Raziq held Shin responsible for the 2004 killing of his brother. Shin had been a marked man ever since. His 15 companions were just going to be collateral damage."

"Arriving back in Spin Boldak, Raziq reported to his superiors and to the press that he had intercepted “at least 15” Taliban fighters infiltrating from Pakistan, led by the “mid-level Taliban commander Mullah Shin,” and had killed them in a gun battle. “We got a tip-off about them coming across the border. We went down there and fought them,” Raziq told the Associated Press the next day. It was the beginning of a cover-up that would go all the way up to President Karzai in Kabul."

After Aiken's investigation, SUPPLEMENTED by Semple's its utterly clear that Shin was an Afghan Nurzai whose family consisted refugees and that this was a TRIBAL CONFLICT:

"It was a tribal conflict,” Waheed said, shaking his head, his long fingers trembling as they tapped against his cheek. “Raziq had a problem with Shin, but why did he have to kill all the others?”

Semple went on to NOTE THE DISCPREPENCY BETWEEN THE WORD OF MOUTH REPORTS AND THE OFFICIAL AFGHAN GOVERNMENTAL REPORTS MEAN TO DRUDGE UP SUPPORT FALSELY:

"When he heard of the suspicious killings, this official called his boss, Michael Semple, who was then the deputy to Francesc Vendrell, the European Union’s special representative to Afghanistan. “He had real-time information and alerted me,” said Semple, who noticed the discrepancy between word-of-mouth reports in Spin Boldak and the official line. “It was being sold as a heroic defense of Afghanistan against the Taliban.” "

One of Semple's Afghan investigators notes Razeq's brutality at the gravesite:

"As an investigative officer in one of the most violent provinces in Afghanistan, Mohammad had seen hundreds of dead bodies. But this time, he was overcome with emotion by the corpse of a boy who could not have been more than 16—the same boy whose picture I had looked at with Waheed. “He was a lovely boy. I wept for him as I lifted his body,” Mohammed said, his voice thickening. “For one person, Raziq killed 15 innocents.” "

Karzai then proceeded to kick Semple out of the country despite his credentials:
"A tall Irishman with a flaming-red beard, fluent in Dari and Pashto, Semple was known as a foreigner who didn’t hesitate to get directly involved in Afghan politics. That hands-on attitude would later get Semple in trouble, when he was caught up in a 2007 dispute over a local cease-fire with the Taliban and was kicked out of the country by Karzai. He’s now a fellow at Harvard University’s Carr Center for Human Rights Policy and a widely respected expert on Afghanistan and Pakistan. "

[Admin Khan]

Admin,

a simple question. Why is it that when it comes to nefarious designs we are asked to stretch our imaginations in order to accomodate the duplicity of Pakistanis when the evidence is lacking. You have asked me and Khushal to do this now a number of times. Would it be proper to respond with questions of equal suspicion such as "Let us suppose that Mr. Karzai's past links with the School of the Americas and CIA means he is an implant to subvert an Islamic state?"

Absolutely, Afghans should learn from their past mistakes and know that they can not trust anyone, and should apply every permutation permissible to a situation in order to ensure efficient governance. Knowing the fact that Pakistan specifically had told the USA to NOTbuild Afghanistan an armed force is an automatic weight contributed to each event, since we are already aware of Pakistan's nefarious activities. Afghanistan should always aim for brotherly relations, but when a bomb blast occurs, all permutations of possibilities must be thought through carefully in order to prevent such sadness for the future. Karzai is a puppet, there is no denial in that, he too should be scrutinized and peaceful protests should occur requesting him to either

A)Prove his allegiance to the Afghan nation
B)Step down and resign.

We have learned from our basic probability class that such mere possibilities that you mentioned, i.e Karzai aims, can very well be a possibility, and you might have some evidence to show for it(I haven't checked it) and we also have concrete evidence for Pakistan's imperalistic ambitions, i.e A)Exporting terrorism B)Specifically requesting the USA to not build an Afghan military(perhaps it doesn't want its 5th province armed?).

I mean there are CIA agents abounding beyond Scheuer who have unequivocally stated that autonomous Islamic states in any form are on the hit list. See, its easy to demand someone proves a negative. So another instance would be I could easily say "well these emigres are all persianized" and we all know that this faction was heavily in support of Mohammadzai policy and many of them backed Najib so is it not possible that they staged all of this to divert attention toward Pakistan? These questions are really irrelevent and I think you asking us to supposed that each and every allegation against Pakistan might have an air of truth (e.g. the lack of 10 men killed on the border in any other reports besides Afghan state media) despite the lack of evidence makes the discussion a nonstarter.

I agree with you, and don't see how this pertains to the discussion. The Karzai government is as corrupt as any other institution of Afghanistan.

Lets look at another report on this incident. Lets also set the stage for why Maiwand MATTERS and why the official report from the Afghan GOVERNMENT spokesman fed to CNN is contradictory.

First:
In the hold and clear strategy as of late in Maiwand was something the coalition took bragging rights for:
http://www.understandingwar.org/othe...trict-kandahar

Second:
There was a lot of egg on the face of both the ANA/ANSF and ISAF when American soldiers were killed there in the largest number of troops killed this year:
http://www.gloucestercitynews.net/cl...ed-attack.html

Third:
The Huffington Post article is written with DIRECT feedback from the protestors NOT FILTERED through the Karzai government spokesman and what does it say???

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3237241.html?

And I hardly thing Ariana Huffington is a Paki.

"Villagers in the town of Maiwand said Afghan police opened fire on hundreds of demonstrators who were protesting raids that Afghan and NATO forces conducted in their village of Loye Karez two days earlier."

So now, who is telling this tale of Taliban and Pakistani infiltrators into the gathering in addition to the Afghan spokesman cited by CNN????

Well, the murdering Ismat Muslim relative son of a -biatch Abdul Raziq:

"Kandahar Provincial Police Chief Gen. Abdul Raziq said Taliban insurgents had infiltrated the demonstration."

And, the man on the street is saying the exact opposite of Mr Raziq:

"Abdul Qayyum, a 45-year-old demonstrator, disputed that, telling The Associated Press by phone that "there were no Taliban among the protesters."
"The local people of Maiwand district are so upset and unhappy with the government and the foreigners because they are conducting night raids on the houses of local people," he said. "With no reason, they are entering local houses and doing whatever they want. We don't want all these things to keep happening to us."

3) Now for Mr Razeq... has he tried this ruse in the past? Yes, this expose in the esteemed Atlantic Monthly showed how this murdering horribl example of a human being killed off a family of NON TALIBAN opponents from the Nurzai tribe (Razeq is Achakzai) to clear up a vandetta from his dad's day:

This ground level expose by Mr Aikens, who knows dari, and went under cover to investigate this (including talking to Qandaharis from Shin's Nurzai tribe and family) blows a hole in Razeq's credibility. Mike Semple, from Harvard University did his own investigation and was thrown out by the Karzai government after years of service to Afghanistan. Here are the key quotes that show that Razeq even murdered a child and used the Pakistan and Taliban as ane excuse:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...ndahar/308653/

"Raziq and Lalai had together lured Shin and his associates to Kabul. The tribes to which Raziq and Shin belonged had been feuding over smuggling routes, and Raziq held Shin responsible for the 2004 killing of his brother. Shin had been a marked man ever since. His 15 companions were just going to be collateral damage."

"Arriving back in Spin Boldak, Raziq reported to his superiors and to the press that he had intercepted “at least 15” Taliban fighters infiltrating from Pakistan, led by the “mid-level Taliban commander Mullah Shin,” and had killed them in a gun battle. “We got a tip-off about them coming across the border. We went down there and fought them,” Raziq told the Associated Press the next day. It was the beginning of a cover-up that would go all the way up to President Karzai in Kabul."

After Aiken's investigation, SUPPLEMENTED by Semple's its utterly clear that Shin was an Afghan Nurzai whose family consisted refugees and that this was a TRIBAL CONFLICT:

"It was a tribal conflict,” Waheed said, shaking his head, his long fingers trembling as they tapped against his cheek. “Raziq had a problem with Shin, but why did he have to kill all the others?”

Semple went on to NOTE THE DISCPREPENCY BETWEEN THE WORD OF MOUTH REPORTS AND THE OFFICIAL AFGHAN GOVERNMENTAL REPORTS MEAN TO DRUDGE UP SUPPORT FALSELY:

"When he heard of the suspicious killings, this official called his boss, Michael Semple, who was then the deputy to Francesc Vendrell, the European Union’s special representative to Afghanistan. “He had real-time information and alerted me,” said Semple, who noticed the discrepancy between word-of-mouth reports in Spin Boldak and the official line. “It was being sold as a heroic defense of Afghanistan against the Taliban.” "

One of Semple's Afghan investigators notes Razeq's brutality at the gravesite:

"As an investigative officer in one of the most violent provinces in Afghanistan, Mohammad had seen hundreds of dead bodies. But this time, he was overcome with emotion by the corpse of a boy who could not have been more than 16—the same boy whose picture I had looked at with Waheed. “He was a lovely boy. I wept for him as I lifted his body,” Mohammed said, his voice thickening. “For one person, Raziq killed 15 innocents.” "

Karzai then proceeded to kick Semple out of the country despite his credentials:
"A tall Irishman with a flaming-red beard, fluent in Dari and Pashto, Semple was known as a foreigner who didn’t hesitate to get directly involved in Afghan politics. That hands-on attitude would later get Semple in trouble, when he was caught up in a 2007 dispute over a local cease-fire with the Taliban and was kicked out of the country by Karzai. He’s now a fellow at Harvard University’s Carr Center for Human Rights Policy and a widely respected expert on Afghanistan and Pakistan. "

BA, what makes you think I disagree with what you wrote above? I don't get it. I agree with the above, and have absolutely no clue as to how this pertains to the point I was trying to make. Afghanistan has far more competent folks to lead vis-a-vis some of the current corrupt officials, there is no denial that Afghanistan has war lords leading right now, and that the situation needs improvement.