Protests against Pakistani invasion and their post shown destroyed!!

[ComradePashtun]

Pakistan election: tensions rise with Afghanistan

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

pakistan is in political mess.

and this might force Pakistan to completely fence the border with afghanistan..

which should not be done since the life line or supply of afghanistan is through pakistan only

[khushal]

It was not an invasion. The US gave them the post and they have given the paksitani others posts as well. The only invader here is the US.

[Admin Khan]

It was not an invasion. The US gave them the post and they have given the paksitani others posts as well. The only invader here is the US.

Let's suppose that is true, why is Pakistan continously rebuilding that checkpost? Anyone who builds post on Afghan land is an invader, and that includes Pakistan, the US, in your eyes, should NOT be the ONLY invader. An invader, I repeat, is anyone who builds a check post on Afghan turf. If Coalition forces gave Pakistan that checkpost, rather than Afghan forces, it is a serious blunder and should be condemned, however, the Banana republic should be condemned as well. Right?

[MostafaM]

Let's suppose that is true, why is Pakistan continously rebuilding that checkpost? Anyone who builds post on Afghan land is an invader, and that includes Pakistan, the US, in your eyes, should NOT be the ONLY invader. An invader, I repeat, is anyone who builds a check post on Afghan turf. If Coalition forces gave Pakistan that checkpost, rather than Afghan forces, it is a serious blunder and should be condemned, however, the Banana republic should be condemned as well. Right?

Now I am curious why a dog is an invader but the dog of the dog is not.

Khushal Khan,
can you elaborate why only the US is an invader?

[Wowra]

I agree with Kushal - if, and only if, the US gave them the post, then that would be the same as one family selling another family's land. The new occupant isn't necessarily as culpable as the under-handed salesman. That said, where did the information that the US gave them the cp come from? Its certainly precarious times.

[khushal]

I agree with Kushal - if, and only if, the US gave them the post, then that would be the same as one family selling another family's land. The new occupant isn't necessarily as culpable as the under-handed salesman. That said, where did the information that the US gave them the cp come from? Its certainly precarious times.

Most people here comment without knowing the info or the history behind the conflict that erupts. They refuse to investigate when the info is at their fingertips. laziness.
here are two source in detail:

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/editorials/30-Apr-2013/border-posts

Centre for Conflict and Peace Studies - Regional News

It is believed US troops had helped Pakistanis occupy the posts instead of handing them over to Afghan border forces.

[Admin Khan]

Most people here comment without knowing the info or the history behind the conflict that erupts. They refuse to investigate when the info is at their fingertips. laziness.
here are two source in detail:
Border posts
Centre for Conflict and Peace Studies - Regional News

I believe that Wowra went to Mars, and Jupiter. I also believe that BarakzaiAbdali can be the best president in the world, you see what the word 'believe' here does?

Two facts:
A)No concrete evidence that the USA gave the bases to Pakistan, believing that Wowra went to Jupiter and had some good Biryani there is equivalent in terms of logic.
B)Even if they did, why is Pakistan building more bases + rebuilding the previous ones brought down by the ANSF? Both the US(if they did the aforementioned)and Pakistan deserve strong condemnation, you saying the US is the ONLY invader is just as silly, which I highlighted before and expected a response on. Clearly, Pakistan has an interest here, either condemn both, or condemn none. Selective condemnation is the same as not condemning in my eyes.

What you have highlighted here Khushal, unfortunately, is the very problem Afghans suffer from. It has to be a psychological problem because the same occurred in the 80, when it was OKAY to condemn the Soviets as Kuffar, yet it was NOT okay to condemn the USA as Kuffar since they were providing military assistance. Now the USA is the only invader, even though Pakistan just yesterday built two NEW posts in Kunar. If you condemn both NATO and Pakistan for building illegal posts, I am on board with you; but your faulty logic by saying the USA is the only invader is the same reason why Afghanistan has been stuck in the stone ages for centuries.

Best,

[Wowra]

hmm - I'll have to data-mine that. There's clearly more to it than those two articles let on. There's a number of ways I could see that panning out.

[Admin Khan]

I agree with Kushal - if, and only if, the US gave them the post, then that would be the same as one family selling another family's land. The new occupant isn't necessarily as culpable as the under-handed salesman. That said, where did the information that the US gave them the cp come from? Its certainly precarious times.

I disagree, your logic would have worked had Pakistan NOT continuously:

A)Repairing what was brought down.
B)Building new posts.

Anybody involved in corruption, land-grabbing should be unequivocally condemned. Had Pakistan claimed "Well, Bhai sahab, Amrika gave it to us, what we do?", then upon Afghan forces destroying them, they should have NOT been rebuilding, with money, the same posts. In addition to this, they are building NEW POSTS. How does one explain did that? Or am I going to hear a conspiracy as to how Michael Jackson is believed to have funded those new posts set up yesterday in Kunar?

Condemn corrupt officials irrespective of your political allegiance is the route one should take if they expect a civilized society.

[Admin Khan]

hmm - I'll have to data-mine that. There's clearly more to it than those two articles let on. There's a number of ways I could see that panning out.

Wowra, I am of the opinion that if the coalition forces gave Afghan land to foreigners they should be condemned and brought before the U.N, in short, just about every legal exercise should be executed. However, what wiggles my tails is when Afghans are fed this 'You are occupied' logic by Pakistan, meanwhile they are involved in occupying Afghan land as I type this. Why selective criticism? Why selective condemnation? In no way am I defending the NATO(if they indeed did what is claimed they did, so far no evidence), I am just against folks who see things in a Black and white manner. Recognize that aside from Nangarhar, Pakistan just built NEW POSTS in Kunar. Who gave those to Pakistan this time? Why is the USA, so to speak, the ONLY invader? Pakistan and Iran has been robbing Afghanistan for decades in ways not even imaginable.

[Wowra]

Admin Khanjan,

I understand your point of view - and agree to an extent. I need to start digging back in '03 and work forward to grasp this situation. There is clearly something here.

With the base in Naray - I find it almost impossible. There is something seriously messed up going on, and i think when the dust settles it'll be a clever plan for the ANA to get more supplies and the tribes to get more land. There's a lot of dynamics in that area that make such a thing pretty impossible, but its so isolated that not many would hazard a trip to prove or disprove any of those claims. I've got a buddy that still lives in Naray - I'll shoot him an e-mail and get to the bottom of it and post my findings on here.

[Admin Khan]

Awesome, thanks for your cool, and level-headed response. If you do have some findings(frankly, I'll take your word over most sources)do update this thread with your findings.

Best,

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I agree with Kushal - if, and only if, the US gave them the post, then that would be the same as one family selling another family's land. The new occupant isn't necessarily as culpable as the under-handed salesman. That said, where did the information that the US gave them the cp come from? Its certainly precarious times.

I really appreciate your prior commentary on visits to the region and the use of various forces between tribal groupings.

To help you on your search I can refer you to some earlier posts that were extremely unpopular here. Perhaps because I refuse to play make believe or suspend belief on how folks respond to instigation. My next post will follow up with that information.

A few basic questions that any independent party would need to identify

1) Where exactly are these posts relative to the durand line?
2) Tolo news identified the exchange from the Americans to the Pakistanis (or ISAF to Pakistanis)... if so... why did this occur without Afghan governmental consent? Here is the article from Tolo in which the Afghan MINISTER says it took place:
Afghan Govt Moves to End Pakistan Border Gate

Quoted is Mr. Minister of the Interior himself. Perhaps PF needs to write him and ask him to furnish more information.
3) If these posts lie on Pakistani soil - what then? The Afghan government does not recognize the durand line, but Pakistan insists on it.

To date, we have no independent or even Pakistani source commenting on these border gate locations and a map.

What we do know for sure from all sources is that Pakistan is indiscriminantly shelling into kunar and other places which is a human rights violation and perhaps Kiyani ought to be taken to the Hague for it.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Wowra, I am of the opinion that if the coalition forces gave Afghan land to foreigners they should be condemned and brought before the U.N, in short, just about every legal exercise should be executed. However, what wiggles my tails is when Afghans are fed this 'You are occupied' logic by Pakistan, meanwhile they are involved in occupying Afghan land as I type this. Why selective criticism? Why selective condemnation? In no way am I defending the NATO(if they indeed did what is claimed they did, so far no evidence), I am just against folks who see things in a Black and white manner. Recognize that aside from Nangarhar, Pakistan just built NEW POSTS in Kunar. Who gave those to Pakistan this time? Why is the USA, so to speak, the ONLY invader? Pakistan and Iran has been robbing Afghanistan for decades in ways not even imaginable.

If the posts are on Afghan territory. To date, there is only Afghan media outlet sourcing making the claim. And I am talking outside of the Loya Afghanistan context where all KP is Afghan land.. we are talking about the generally ISAF/NATO accepted border.

To settle this, I do think Karzai and the government should take this case, if Mr. Seddiqi feels confident - to NATO and to have independent arbiters come and examine the issue.

I have done a pretty detailed search this morning and besides Tolo and a bunch of other Afghan news outlets; and their feeders to western outlets - there is not a single information extensive post that examines it the way a professional civil engineer would in regard to land disputes between two houses etc. about where exactly these posts fall relative to the durand line.