No Respect for the Army and Police

[JAMALUDEEN]

Afghan Parliamentarian insults Afghan Soldiers

[DaZahroJaam.]

just a few weeks ago one guy who raised his hand on a police guy was dismissed from his position and made to publicly apologize to him. hopefully something similar happens to this guy because otherwise how are these people supposed to take their jobs seriously if they can't even get people to behave civil in the streets.
i think as soon as someone does that, they should all gather and beat his ass in the middle of the street so everyone else can watch and see what happens to people who raise their hand on the traffic police or other authority figures.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Good job. Calling out inept thugs for what they are makes this guy a hero. Not only do they have a sustained high attrition rate; not only do they continue to (even when their "elite" units are involved) lose battle after battle, but they are notorious for terrorizing local populations and creating the ripe environment for the return of the Taliban. The embarassment of Karzai a few months ago in Wardag was that it was not US but ANA troops and ANP units harrassing the people.

http://gma.yahoo.com/under-us-watch-...opstories.html

"ABC News spoke to a number of residents of Wardak province, the restive area east of Kabul where Afghan President Hamid Karzai has given U.S. Special Operations forces two weeks to leave. The deadline follows accusations of gross misconduct carried out by a shadowy group of irregular Afghan forces -- men allegedly recruited and trained directly by U.S. Special Forces -- who are widely seen as operating outside the law.
Though the U.S. military said they haven't seen any evidence to support those claims, the allegations are backed up by local villagers who spoke to ABC News on the condition of anonymity – all said they fear reprisals from the men who come at night."

When you have a murderer like Abdul Raziq Achakzai:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...ndahar/308653/

as police chief in Kandahar - who blasted unarmed children in a personal dispute (and then label them as Talibs) then you can be pretty sure you got some utter human trash in your army and police legions:

"Raziq and his men loaded their captives into a convoy of Land Cruisers and headed out to a parched, desolate stretch of the Afghan-Pakistani border. About 10 kilometers outside of town, they came to a halt. Shin and the others were hauled out of the trucks and into a dry river gully. There, at close range, Raziq’s forces let loose with automatic weapons, their bullets tearing through the helpless men, smashing their faces apart and soaking their robes with blood. After finishing the job, they unbound the corpses and left them there."

The pictures of the raid in which NON TALIBAN family members were massacred by Raziq are in the Atlantic Monthly article which was well researched and confirmed with Qandaharis on the ground.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/wo...says.html?_r=0

"a bleak new Pentagon report has found that only one of the Afghan National Army’s 23 brigades is able to operate independently without air or other military support from the United States and NATO partners."

And these thugs are generally drugees who make Al Pacino's Scarface look like a Pir:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-8555238.html

"For every 10 new soldiers recruited to the Afghan National Army (ANA), at least three are lost because they have been sacked, captured or killed in action, new figures have revealed. British officials admit that current "attrition rates", with more than 5,000 soldiers quitting every month, threaten the force's long-term effectiveness.
The dispiriting details of the failure to develop a "critical mass" of ANSF recruits who can lead the fight against the Taliban come three months after The Independent on Sunday revealed that FCO officials feared the police were still "endemically corrupt" and riven with nepotism and drug abuse."

"The dispiriting details of the failure to develop a "critical mass" of ANSF recruits who can lead the fight against the Taliban come three months after The Independent on Sunday revealed that FCO officials feared the police were still "endemically corrupt" and riven with nepotism and drug abuse."


Basically, they are mercenaries and their abuse of their own people is on par with neighboring Pakistan. The same idiotic concept of military worship that exists there in Pakistan where the military is "infallible" and considered adept will hopefully never take hold in the minds of independent Afghans.

As we always say, Karzai with his karakul hat is basically building New Pakistan right next door to the old one. Just as we have New England in the states - perhaps the ultimate goal of his is to rename the nation. Thankfully, the Afghan people are not as foolish as he and his coterie of technocrats.

[khushal]

just a few weeks ago one guy who raised his hand on a police guy was dismissed from his position and made to publicly apologize to him. hopefully something similar happens to this guy because otherwise how are these people supposed to take their jobs seriously if they can't even get people to behave civil in the streets.
i think as soon as someone does that, they should all gather and beat his ass in the middle of the street so everyone else can watch and see what happens to people who raise their hand on the traffic police or other authority figures.

There was a time when the King soldiers used to come to our village with nothing more than a stick(the stick was for to keep wild dogs away) and our whole village used to respect him to the utmost because he did not come to our village to terrorize but came in service of it. If the police actually serve the people , no one would raise their hands at them.
The police are for the purpose of protecting and serving the people, not to harass and terrorize.

[DaZahroJaam.]

traffic laws are not to please karzai, they are for the comfort of the citizens. when everyone on the road does as they please, the rest of the citizens suffer, not karzai. if tomorrow the government was changed to something that everyone would be in favor of ( as if that is ever going to happen) no body would stop breaking the law because they like the government. people have become lazy and are used to getting special treatments. their asses catch on fire when they are denied special treatments. the happiness and harassment that you are referring to are different definitions to corruption and getting things the way one pleases. when they are not getting their way around, they are being "harassed".
when was the last time you were in afghanistan, if ever??

[khushal]

The incident above is more than a traffic incident, it is bottled up anger at police that has erupted. Most common folk today in afghansitan and pakistan hate the police. When people hate the police, then there is something wrong with the police.

[JAMALUDEEN]

The incident above is more than a traffic incident, it is bottled up anger at police that has erupted. Most common folk today in afghansitan and pakistan hate the police. When people hate the police, then there is something wrong with the police.

Yes, that is true, but that is a big generalisation.

[Admin Khan]

The incident above is more than a traffic incident, it is bottled up anger at police that has erupted. Most common folk today in afghansitan and pakistan hate the police. When people hate the police, then there is something wrong with the police.

Khushal Jaana,

There are some humble folks in the police as well, and some patriotic folks that aside from making a living wish to protect their country. You've got to start from somewhere. Even the NYPD or LAPD has corruption, to a certain extent. Baseless criticizing will not help them improve.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The incident above is more than a traffic incident, it is bottled up anger at police that has erupted. Most common folk today in afghansitan and pakistan hate the police. When people hate the police, then there is something wrong with the police.

Khushal, you should read about car guantanamo.

The largest group of these thugs is in Kabul where the average person suffers due to their heavy handed and extremely unethical tactics. Thats their norm, i.e the average according to this - not the outlier:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/18/wo...anted=all&_r=0

“I’ve been waiting two months to get my van back,” said Sayed Wahid, whose quest to reclaim it, after it was impounded for an expired international permit, propelled him on an exhausting odyssey through no fewer than six different government agencies. “How do you think I feel about the government?”
Mr. Wahid’s experience is far from isolated. Some Kabul residents describe efforts spanning many months and big money to free their vehicles, only to win back a chassis long since stripped down for its parts. Keenly aware of the horror stories, most people here go to great lengths to avoid any interaction at all with the traffic police.

What Karzai is trying to do, but isn't really sticking, is to deflect this poor governance toward other directions.

I think this portion sums it up:

"Despite that, most Afghans still say they have little faith that their government can honestly enforce the law. The rules are unevenly applied, punitive to those who can least afford it, and mostly irrelevant to those with money and power. Transparency International recently ranked Afghanistan as the third most corrupt country in the world, after Somalia and North Korea."

At the end of the day - Karzai wants to be the only "Pakistan" on the block and he is assuredly fast on the way to building that "dream."

[khushal]

Khushal Jaana,

There are some humble folks in the police as well, and some patriotic folks that aside from making a living wish to protect their country. You've got to start from somewhere. Even the NYPD or LAPD has corruption, to a certain extent. Baseless criticizing will not help them improve.

Admin khana, the criticizing is not baseless as barackzai has already posted a source to back up the criticizing and this one here:
In Afghanistan, a cop who hands out money, instead of taking bribes - CSMonitor.com

The police are corrupt for the same reason that paksitani police are corrupt that they are not paid enough and they are forced to harass the public into getting "tea money" because the ones at management level are stealing money that the common cop is supposed to receive.

People have a hard time getting marriage certificates and birth certificates, automobile registration, land titles, just basic civil service unless a high bribe is paid. How is a poor person supposed to afford all that and what message is the government putting out there to its public. Isn't this what basically what the American revolution was about, taxation without representation.

[Admin Khan]

No one is arguing that there does not exist corruption, and an article pointing out that corruption exists does not imply that they are all corrupt. Afghanistan has to start from somewhere, and there are people that genuinely join to serve their country; we can't paint everyone with the same brush.

[JAMALUDEEN]

No one is arguing that there does not exist corruption, and an article pointing out that corruption exists does not imply that they are all corrupt. Afghanistan has to start from somewhere, and there are people that genuinely join to serve their country; we can't paint everyone with the same brush.

+1

[khushal]

No one is arguing that there does not exist corruption, and an article pointing out that corruption exists does not imply that they are all corrupt. Afghanistan has to start from somewhere, and there are people that genuinely join to serve their country; we can't paint everyone with the same brush.

straw man fallacy admin khana. no one claimed every individual is corrupt but the vast majority are. Afghanistan has to start from somewhere but it should not start from corruption. You keep criticizing pakistan as a banana republic which I agree with but the reason its a banana republic is because it started its birth from corruption. If the foundation is weak, it is doomed to fall.

[Admin Khan]

straw man fallacy admin khana. no one claimed every individual is corrupt but the vast majority are. Afghanistan has to start from somewhere but it should not start from corruption. You keep criticizing pakistan as a banana republic which I agree with but the reason its a banana republic is because it started its birth from corruption. If the foundation is weak, it is doomed to fall.

Logical fallacy. The burden of proof is on you to show me that the 'vast majority' is corrupt.

I criticize both nations, both armed forces. However, my criticism is rather constructive cause I genuinely wish well for the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan. However, senseless rambling without evidence is NOT fixing the problem. I concur that there is corruption, I agree there is work to be done, however, every nation had to start from somewhere, and there is always room for improvement.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Logical fallacy. The burden of proof is on you to show me that the 'vast majority' is corrupt.

I criticize both nations, both armed forces. However, my criticism is rather constructive cause I genuinely wish well for the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan. However, senseless rambling without evidence is NOT fixing the problem. I concur that there is corruption, I agree there is work to be done, however, every nation had to start from somewhere, and there is always room for improvement.

Inherent difference in the case of both pakistan and afghanistan is that in both these nations (e.g. Khybar rifles) its an imposed police and army by an outside superpower. So in effect, its not the Afghan nation starting from somewhere - its Mr. Karzai starting from somewhere alongside his technocrats and Afghan American and British Afghan emigres who are making a cash killing off this. And that is exactly why those villagers in Wardag were getting maimed, harrassed, and hurt - Karzai himself had to deflect the blame into the Americans when it turned out they were indigenous organized forces by the Kharijaan. I think what Khushaal means is that starting from somewhere as in Karzai's somewhere is bound to land the watan in hot water in the long term. Most of these folks that are in there though are in there to make buko bucks which is why karzai repeatedly has had to reassure them of no 2014 drawdown.