Ahmad Shah Masood captured Pakistani Taliban

[Admin Khan]

^^I do not but anything people say with a threat of the gun is not credible but you could tell most of them are young resembling typical madrasa students and it is no secret that most of taliban recruitments were from madrassas

That is 100% true, along with interrogation. If you water-board Tony Blair, even he will admit that he is Al-Qaeda, and did 9/11.

[Admin Khan]

The demise of the afghans was sealed when the soviets invaded and the resistance was no longer, for the first time since ahmad shah baba, led by a royal family member

I don't think the Soviets ever wanted to invade, was it not Afghans that specifically requested them to invade?

[Admin Khan]

what the guy said is so true, mullah brainwashing the youth has to stop, many of these pakistanis mullah work directly under the orders of ISI/Army

He has a general point, which is the ISI suicide-bomb producing factories in Madrassass. Anybody with a brain sees that there exists Madrassas that are brainwashing young, innocent Pashtuns, into becoming suicide bombers. Anyone who denies the aforementioned needs a reality check. However, this does NOT in anyway legitimize Ahmad Shah Masood, he sold Afghanistan out for money, I have very reserved feelings towards sell-outs. Anytime Pakistan wants war, all it has to do is give a Madrassah a quantity of suicide bombers that it needs, and bam, there it is, Pashtun families lost their children for a 'Holy war' that revolves around serving the geopolitical strategic interests of an empire. This is sad, and undeniable. Rather than going to school, Pashtun children are enrolled in suicide factories, but there are reasons behind the aforementioned, such as poorness. I have even heard of stories of Pashtun families selling their children, as soon as they are born, cause they can't afford to raise them; what makes us think for $5,000 dollars they won't give their child away for a sarcastic noble cause like sending him to a Madrassash, where he can eventually become a Shaheed?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Aw yawa kasera ba warnakoo da Karzai Bibi farsibano pelashta la. Da yawa kasera sekha kam da khra pa dol natsela.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

+ wasn't Ahmad Shah Masood himself funded, and supported by the Pakistani ISI? That's what Ive heard, in addition to what you said, which is why I've personally never quite agreed with the Northern Alliance Pakistani rhetoric; I mean, isn't the reason from them feeling sour all of a sudden because Hekmatyaar was receiving a bigger pie of the money?

They all took money from the highest bidders. Recently Karzai Bibi, per Sarah Chayes, was directly linked back then to receiving CIA largesse. Its the same game as before without folks using their heads. They were the backbone and their men were the backbone of the Anti Soviet front - the west was so afraid of losing central asia in totality to the Russians that everyone of these men should have - when they saw the looming ISI funding favoritism threat - sat right in the former NWFP and refused to fight until they secured direct funding and bypassed these handlers like Karzai.

That would have created a public relations disaster for Pakistan which could not kick out the Afghans after making bluster and bravado for supporting them - and it would have drawn out that war to the point that the funds would start to go around Pakistan.

If Hekmetyaar and his men were getting funding - they were not enough to secure victory. Even if war is a darwinistic pursuit in which the roughest fighters come out on top - Hekmetyaar lost a lot of personell when he went up against the Najib government in some big battle around Jalalabad. He was not, in and of himself enough to win and they would have seen that.

Even then, as I said its simply Mossoud pulling his opponents partug down and then pointing to his own crotch with his partug down.

Take a look at this out today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/wo...pagewanted=all

[BarakzaiAbdali]

He has a general point, which is the ISI suicide-bomb producing factories in Madrassass. Anybody with a brain sees that there exists Madrassas that are brainwashing young, innocent Pashtuns, into becoming suicide bombers. Anyone who denies the aforementioned needs a reality check. However, this does NOT in anyway legitimize Ahmad Shah Masood, he sold Afghanistan out for money, I have very reserved feelings towards sell-outs. Anytime Pakistan wants war, all it has to do is give a Madrassah a quantity of suicide bombers that it needs, and bam, there it is, Pashtun families lost their children for a 'Holy war' that revolves around serving the geopolitical strategic interests of an empire. This is sad, and undeniable. Rather than going to school, Pashtun children are enrolled in suicide factories, but there are reasons behind the aforementioned, such as poorness. I have even heard of stories of Pashtun families selling their children, as soon as they are born, cause they can't afford to raise them; what makes us think for $5,000 dollars they won't give their child away for a sarcastic noble cause like sending him to a Madrassash, where he can eventually become a Shaheed?

I dont disagree - but the Kabul technocrat government with its soft hands and its affiliate the NDS pretty much does the same by taking young villagers and sending them off to fight Karzai's war against the very same boys mentioned above. These young boys are poor and register for the ANA not out of patriotism but rather for the funds (hence the high attrition rate) and end up getting blasted by their war hardened opponent.

All because Karzai has no real power. He has no real lashkaar (which is why his brother couldnt even defend himself). As I said before Karzai is just a lighter skinned Zardari.

[khushal]

yaw nalat pa massud aw sal pa ahle ilkhwaan.

The arab ikhwan ei obl came to afghanistan during the Rabanni and Mosud regime with their blessing so your statement should be the other way around.

[khushal]

I don't think the Soviets ever wanted to invade, was it not Afghans that specifically requested them to invade?

Which afghans? Amin was the president and the Soviets killed him. How is it an invitation when the guest is killing the host. That my friend is an invasion.

[HalloIsBack]

students that are admitted by their parents to the madrassa for education and then are sent for the "holy war" with out their parent's or their own consent. listen to what the captured man is saying to the reporter. i believe it's a confession.

once i saw a video that shows that tajik (i mean here tajikistan) parents are sending their children to a madrasa cuz they want a proper education for their children but people are turning the children over and send them for suicide bombing
a 14 or 15 years boy were crying and scared

unfortunately i can't find this video

[HalloIsBack]

+ wasn't Ahmad Shah Masood himself funded, and supported by the Pakistani ISI? That's what Ive heard, in addition to what you said, which is why I've personally never quite agreed with the Northern Alliance Pakistani rhetoric; I mean, isn't the reason from them feeling sour all of a sudden because Hekmatyaar was receiving a bigger pie of the money?

this was too what i read
masood and hekmatyar fighted together against soviets and were supported by usa, pakistan etc. but hekmatyar get a bigger pie of the money and masood were pissed of because of this

[HalloIsBack]

I don't think the Soviets ever wanted to invade, was it not Afghans that specifically requested them to invade?

no they don't wanted to do it
the reason why they invated was to kill amin and to install her doll what they did
they wanted to invade for couple days and then go back but as we see it didn't work out
also there were a civil war before soviet invaded but lots of medias especially western say nothing about it
also with the soviet invasion the drug trafficking began to expand

[Kushan Prince]

Ahmad shah massoud engaged in bacha bazi with the Russians.

Nuff said.

[HalloIsBack]

Ahmad shah massoud engaged in bacha bazi with the Russians.

Nuff said.

evidences?

[DaZahroJaam.]

The arab ikhwan ei obl came to afghanistan during the Rabanni and Mosud regime with their blessing so your statement should be the other way around.

what i meant was that at the end of the day, neither one of these beghairat watanforosh dalas were better than the other. not that i favored one over the other.

[Tjanaparh]

Soviet invasion is on the accoutns of old army generals, that were bored at the end of their lifes, and even if most of e Soviet top was against the operation, people like for example general Ustinov, who had a big role in the KP pyramide, insisted. They let provoke themselves over the fear, Americans created, and wanted on every cost avoidand closer American presence.
It was for sure not their plan to invade and conquer Afghanistan as part of SU, basically Afghanistan was already doing all what they wanted of it to do. And I suppose SU immage was quiet different in Afghanistan before the invasion. It is though its invasion that Afghans realized, that all the SU claimed to be was a beautifull mask, with a large number of own problems hidden.
The SU had further difficulties to explain their operation to their own people, most of the people do not know or understand the reason why this war was done, because basically the reason was only "fear" and "showing power".
In this case SU was simply like the old lion, before dmitting to be too weak, he tries to show power untill he is destroyed.
Americans calculated well, the Afghanistan war was for sure one of the biggest demotivations for Soviet people, that led to a big increase of drug addiction among the youth. The drug chanel was quiet effectively used.
All was done on the costs of Afghan lifes. I actualy wonder when my people speak about genocide, while most probably the same number of Afghan civilians was killed, still all the world hides it as war or anti-terror operations.
I feel further sorry that after all the bad, done to Afghan people, Russia as the biggest of ex-SU countries doesn't share inerest at all on Afgha people, nor any responsability. All they do is "making deals to arm Afghanistan". At least what you get to hear officialy.
With the split of SU for sure new other interets on Afghan soil were born.
The new republics awoke from the "friendship among all peoples", that unfortunately didn't enter deep in the soul of people. They awoke with neww national identity search and some extreme forms were born too. In this sense for sure every ex-SU republic has its own small interests on Afghan soil(related to security and support of their minorities).