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!!Dr. Michael Scheuer on Boston's Events!!

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  • !!Dr. Michael Scheuer on Boston's Events!!

    U.S. leaders’ fingerprints are on the detonators

    By Dr. Michael Scheuer, former head of the Bin Laden Alec Station of the Central Intelligence Agency, and now Professor at Georgetown

    While the Tsarnaev brothers apparently conducted the Marathon bombings in Boston, the detonators of those bombs also have the fingerprints of most Democratic and Republican politicians all over them, and those men and women are in a measure responsible for each and every one of the Boston casualties. Why? Because once again it is blatantly obvious from the evidence the authorities have presented to date that the attackers were motivated by what the U.S. government does in the Muslim world and not because of our freedoms, liberties, and gender equality. So before President Obama and Secretary Kerry, Senators McCain and Graham, and most of the mainstream media swing into intense lying mode — which amounts to “those murderous Muslims are crazy and hate liberty” — here are several contact points with reality worth keeping in mind

    –1.) To the best of my knowledge, since Osama bin Laden declared war on America in 1996 no Islamist attacker or would-be attacker in the West has ever told the authorities after his arrest that he was motivated to attack by the West’s values, lifestyles, and freedoms. In addition, none of the recovered documents or taped statements by domestic Islamist attackers who died in action have yielded evidence of that kind of motivation. This sort of evidence consistently has shown that the attackers’ overarching motivation to be hatred for U.S. and Western foreign policy toward and intervention in the Islamic world.

    –2.) Likewise, no major Sunni Islamist leader has preached jihad against the United States and the West because of its values, lifestyle, etc. That they loathe many parts of what has become the West’s semi-pagan society is clear; secular democracy and feminism are not coming to their precincts anytime soon, even if Obama, McCain, and Hillary Clinton continue to seek to impose them with bayonets. Nearly to a man, Islamist leaders have unrelentingly sought to focus Muslims on U.S. and Western interventionist policies and actions in the Muslim world. And those leaders have no lack of things to focus Muslim attention on. Since 2011 alone, for example, President Obama and the similarly interventionist NATO leaders have invaded two Muslim countries — Mali and Libya; established a new U.S. military base in Muslim Niger; and are on the verge of intervening in Syria. In addition, they arbitrarily stripped Muslim Sudan of 30-plus percent of its territory and 75-to-80 percent of its oil reserves and gave it to a new and Christian “South Sudan.” To paraphrase what Edmund Burke said about the resistance of American colonials to direct British intervention and taxation, Muslims who would not resist this sort of illegitimate intervention would be fit to be slaves.

    –3.) On the U.S. and Western side of the equation we find a mindlessness that is startling; productive of dead and wounded Americans; and which increases the power of our Islamist enemies. Given points 1 and 2 above, it is nothing less than amazing that senior U.S. political leaders in both parties and much of the media — as well as their counterparts in Europe — continue to preach that Americans are being attacked because of their lifestyle and freedoms. One would think that someone in the media would ask them to produce the evidence for this contention, which of course they could not do. But no one has asked because these politicians, pundits, and journalists would have to admit that U.S. foreign policy — preeminently our support for the Saudi tyranny and Israel; our invasions of Muslim countries; and our efforts to impose Western political and social views on Muslims and neuter Islam — is the main motivation of our Islamist enemies and that, therefore, U.S. policy has helped to kill and maim military and civilian Americans abroad, as well as in Boston, New York, Arkansas, Fort Hood, Texas, Washington, and the rural fields of Pennsylvania.

    –4.) U.S. and Western interventionism also is, in may ways, a two-for for Islamist leaders, their groups, and their ability to attract increasing numbers of young man to their banners. For example, we invade Libya and destroy a viciously anti-Islamist regime. Thereby, we assist in the freeing of thousands of Islamist fighters from Libyan prisons, skilled and experienced men who immediately return to the mujahedin; we facilitate the looting of dozens of arsenals — as we did in Egypt and Tunisia — and so we better arm the mujahedin across Africa; and we deliberately destroy a valuable intelligence ally in our war against the Islamists. And all this in the name of a secular democratic movement that surely exists in the deranged-by-feminism brains of Hillary Clinton and Susan Rice but to no considerable extent anywhere in the Arab world.

    –5.) Just as damaging to the genuine national security interests of the United States and Western Europe is the combination of relentless interventionism and feckless, effeminate war-making. Whether the war was emphatically a necessity — as in Afghanistan — or a criminally whimsical choice –as in Iraq and Mali — the U.S. and its NATO allies always lose. And they lose not because their Islamist enemies are stronger or better armed — they clearly are not — but because the U.S. and the West will not kill the requisite number of the enemy and their supporters, and destroy enough of the foe’s resources and infrastructures, to make our the Islamists know for certain that the bloody game they started — their religious war against the West — is not worth the candle. As a result, we have suffered truly staggering loses in Iraq and Afghanistan, as we will in Mali as the Islamist insurgency there evolves and expands. However much President Obama and the war-boys McCain and Graham dress up the effectiveness and describe the success of the U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan, all of the Muslim world — and especially the young male segment of that population — perceives that the much vaunted U.S. military had its ass kicked and is running home chased by Allah’s warriors, just as the Soviets were evicted from Afghanistan in the 1980s. What better recruiting tool could there be than a perceived reality among young Muslims — underpinned by the reality of U.S. withdrawal-without-victory in Iraq and Afghanistan — that the theoretically omni-powerful U.S. military is an organization that is made reliably contemptible because it is deliberately hamstrung by politicians who are more than willing to wail lamentations and cry crocodile tears over U.S. casualties, but are not willing to protect Americans because they cannot face the reality that the one and only thing that counts in war is victory.

    –6.) So as Boston is cleaned-up and the casualties are buried and tended, all Americans have yet another chance to think about how long they will tolerate a war that Washington refuses to win, while it systematically and knowingly providing much of the motivation for those Islamists intent on killing of Americans. Through its bipartisan truckling to the Saudi and other Gulf tyrannies; its intervention in places like Libya and Syria, where we have no genuine national interest and are helping to put Islamists in power; its willingness to accept U.S. military defeat everywhere; and its unquestioning bipartisan support for Israel and thereby the corruption of U.S. politics by AIPAC and the campaign funds provided by pro-Israel U.S. citizens, Republicans and Democrats are helping to kill Americans, their families, and their children.

    –7.) There is a story, perhaps apocryphal, that the young George S. Patton — then fighting to defend the U.S. border with Mexico — raised a July 4th toast to America’s independence with the words: “May God bless America, and may He damn all of her enemies.” At that point in his career, Patton surely had Pancho Villa and his raiders in mind as enemies, not the bipartisan political leaders of the United States. Given where we stand today in our losing war against Islamist insurgents and terrorists, Patton, if alive, might well enlarge the compass of his definition of America’s enemies to include recent U.S. presidents, senators, and congressman — and he would be right to do so.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

  • #2
    And looks like Scheuer was once again, right on the target (re-read the first point of his article):

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...70e_story.html

    Title of article:

    Boston bombing suspect cites U.S. wars as motivation, officials say
    Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 04-23-2013, 11:05 PM.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

    Comment


    • #3
      Pay close attention here.

      Michael Scheuer: The Idea That They're Attacking Us Because Of Our Culture And Freedom Is Insane - YouTube

      Fred Fleitz looks rather foolish. Take for instance his inaccuracy regarding the history behind the Takfirist Sayid Qutb movement in Egypt. Gamel Abdel Nasser vs the Qutbians was an internal Egyptian struggle and rested on Egyptians not being ready to endorse soviet socialism ala Gaddafi, Arafat etc. Furthermore, Scheuer effectively lays out, in his bio of the folks involved, that they at the most identified with Qutb's brother who did not see eye to eye philosophically with his kin. The salafists were actually at odds with takfirists (even to the point of killings going on between salafists and takfirists). At the end of the day, we understand why Fleitz worked for the utterly idiotic schill John Bolton - idiots roam in packs. The facts of the matter are on Scheuer's side.

      An excellent watch.
      "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

      Comment


      • #4
        Let's pause the trolling, theorizing, and forum drama for a minute and heed both Doctor's words.

        You PF members who live in the West should study the essays on his website, in them you'll find good talking points when one of us Westerners asks about why some Muslims commit terrorist attacks. It makes no sense to us when you only repeat what we've been hearing for the past decade 'Islam is a religion of peace.' In fact, every time we hear that phrase we feel like we are being deceived.

        To those who are actually curious, you can point them to Scheuer's website. Emphasize that he is was a high level career CIA agent tasked with tracking Bin Bin. If they won't believe a man with those credentials... you're dealing with the incorrigible, the kind of person who still thinks that Saddam's mobile WMDs are in Syria.
        په پښتو ژبه ټایپ کول تاسو غواري؟ بيا داسې وکړي چې
        دلته وهي

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SiiNii View Post
          Let's pause the trolling, theorizing, and forum drama for a minute and heed both Doctor's words.

          You PF members who live in the West should study the essays on his website, in them you'll find good talking points when one of us Westerners asks about why some Muslims commit terrorist attacks. It makes no sense to us when you only repeat what we've been hearing for the past decade 'Islam is a religion of peace.' In fact, every time we hear that phrase we feel like we are being deceived.

          To those who are actually curious, you can point them to Scheuer's website. Emphasize that he is was a high level career CIA agent tasked with tracking Bin Bin. If they won't believe a man with those credentials... you're dealing with the incorrigible, the kind of person who still thinks that Saddam's mobile WMDs are in Syria.
          I like your humble tone here, but recognize that Muslims too are the son of this soil. There are ~ 10 million Muslims in the USA, most whom are born and raised in the USA. We shouldn't have to explain to you every day of our lives that our religion is of peace. As a progressive, forward-thinking society, we should have some common sense and self-decency. Unfortunately, given that the stupidity index is on the rise, we are left with no choice. The only ones who question if Islam is of peace, from my experience, are uneducated Americans, who unfortunately are in far larger numbers vis-a-vis the educated ones.
          Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

          A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

          For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


          The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

          -Ferishta, 1560–1620

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SiiNii View Post
            Let's pause the trolling, theorizing, and forum drama for a minute and heed both Doctor's words.

            You PF members who live in the West should study the essays on his website, in them you'll find good talking points when one of us Westerners asks about why some Muslims commit terrorist attacks. It makes no sense to us when you only repeat what we've been hearing for the past decade 'Islam is a religion of peace.' In fact, every time we hear that phrase we feel like we are being deceived.

            To those who are actually curious, you can point them to Scheuer's website. Emphasize that he is was a high level career CIA agent tasked with tracking Bin Bin. If they won't believe a man with those credentials... you're dealing with the incorrigible, the kind of person who still thinks that Saddam's mobile WMDs are in Syria.
            So you got a bunch of peaceful people, you start f*king with them, and you dont stop..isnt it innevitable they will make things difficult for you. Who is doing the invading? The mass killings? Dont fool yourself into thinking there is only one side to the story, these people in the east that are being killed are ordinary people, how would you feel if i came into your house beat the crap out of you and ordered you on how to live your life or what your entitled to? Tell us, before you started ****ing with arabs did they pose such a big threat to America? what does peaceful mean to you? peaceful doesnt mean you ignore someone indefinitly imposing themself on you, or does it?.

            Who cares if you feel your being deceived anyway, whether you feel your being decieved or not makes no difference to why america is in the muslim world and you know it - you forgot about the damn dollers, thats what this is about, its not about america spending billions to benefit the lives of people on the other side of the world, thats all nonsense, if america really cared about other people so much they would put those billions into feeding whole countrys in the 3rd world. how can you even have the audacity to say such a thing. F*k scheuer there's simpler logical ways to summarise this.

            You as a servent of the government cannot deny that there is a certain level of war mongoring that is needed, the govt needs the public in america to support these injustice acts in other parts of the world, therefore they need to produce a 'scare' every now and then and fuel fox news to keep the public stimulated.

            And you want to talk about Muslims in the west. Let me tell you, I'm a Muslim in the west, there's millions of us in the west, i dont agree with terrorism and i know Muslims don't want to see anybody hurt. Saying that though, as we are Muslims we are naturally conscious of what happens in the Muslims world more so than the general public which are non-Muslims, when we hear a lie or a deceiving plot to murder millions of muslims it's more blatant to us even to the non religious. Your confusing the word 'peace' with 'ignorance' - Islam is a religion of peace, its not "islam is a religion of ignorance" where the only way to live up to the name of being peaceful is through ignoring the slaughtering of people in your native homelands all in the name of spreading democracy.

            "Muslims don't support terrorism, but the media supports terrorists" how? well because when you give 0.1% of a group of people a platform your supporting them.
            ----------

            *You cannot climb the ladder of success with your hands in your pockets*

            Originally posted by Karachi
            like I said, there was only one reason I pretended to be pathan, for a girl, who was from Afghan forums and also registered here

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Manzareh View Post
              So you got a bunch of peaceful people, you start f*king with them, and you dont stop..isnt it innevitable they will make things difficult for you. Who is doing the invading? The mass killings? Dont fool yourself into thinking there is only one side to the story, these people in the east that are being killed are ordinary people, how would you feel if i came into your house beat the crap out of you and ordered you on how to live your life or what your entitled to? Tell us, before you started ****ing with arabs did they pose such a big threat to America? what does peaceful mean to you? peaceful doesnt mean you ignore someone indefinitly imposing themself on you, or does it?.

              Who cares if you feel your being deceived anyway, whether you feel your being decieved or not makes no difference to why america is in the muslim world and you know it - you forgot about the damn dollers, thats what this is about, its not about america spending billions to benefit the lives of people on the other side of the world, thats all nonsense, if america really cared about other people so much they would put those billions into feeding whole countrys in the 3rd world. how can you even have the audacity to say such a thing. F*k scheuer there's simpler logical ways to summarise this.

              You as a servent of the government cannot deny that there is a certain level of war mongoring that is needed, the govt needs the public in america to support these injustice acts in other parts of the world, therefore they need to produce a 'scare' every now and then and fuel fox news to keep the public stimulated.

              And you want to talk about Muslims in the west. Let me tell you, I'm a Muslim in the west, there's millions of us in the west, i dont agree with terrorism and i know Muslims don't want to see anybody hurt. Saying that though, as we are Muslims we are naturally conscious of what happens in the Muslims world more so than the general public which are non-Muslims, when we hear a lie or a deceiving plot to murder millions of muslims it's more blatant to us even to the non religious. Your confusing the word 'peace' with 'ignorance' - Islam is a religion of peace, its not "islam is a religion of ignorance" where the only way to live up to the name of being peaceful is through ignoring the slaughtering of people in your native homelands all in the name of spreading democracy.

              "Muslims don't support terrorism, but the media supports terrorists" how? well because when you give 0.1% of a group of people a platform your supporting them.
              Unfortunately, the educated Muslims aren't even shown on TV. If Fox News keeps on playing the same Pakistanis that are burning the US flags, or the same folks in London yelling that they want to Nuke the world, of course some naive people will begin to associate such garbage with Islam, since as soon as the reporter mentions the term Muslim, he shows that garbage. When Jews in Manhattan, raped children, not once was the term 'Jewish' mentioned. When a Jew in Brooklyn, kidnapped a child, chopped off his body, and ate each part of his body for lunch, not once was it mentioned that he is Jewish as well. When Christians bombed the USA decades ago, people didn't question his faith. Why the double-standards and hypocrisy for Muslims? Remember, Hitler too was a Christian, you don't see Muslims associating Christianity with Hitler now do they?
              Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

              A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

              For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


              The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

              -Ferishta, 1560–1620

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                I like your humble tone here, but recognize that Muslims too are the son of this soil. There are ~ 10 million Muslims in the USA, most whom are born and raised in the USA. We shouldn't have to explain to you every day of our lives that our religion is of peace. As a progressive, forward-thinking society, we should have some common sense and self-decency. Unfortunately, given that the stupidity index is on the rise, we are left with no choice. The only ones who question if Islam is of peace, from my experience, are uneducated Americans, who unfortunately are in far larger numbers vis-a-vis the educated ones.
                I think SiiNii means something else entirely Admin.

                What he means is that the common question that comes up from your and my colleagues, reasonably educated people... and the common alike is:

                "Why do they hate us?"

                And your answer is extremely important because its also indicating that Islam is not a monolithic entity. The Islamic empires were diverse and beautiful in their cultural variations. I do not agree with Lavanaay Zalmaay on much, but one has to concede that even temporally, except perhaps in the early Caliphate, there was divergance of thought. Heck reading the disputes between Imam Malik and Ibn Ishaaq displays that right away.

                But what SiiNii means is that he needs something MORE than that explanation. He doesnt want to buy the theorizing that Saudi Arabia simply created 100,000,000 automotans that are all secret porn watching, women bashing, bearded Mullah Omars ready to burqaize women. He doesnt accept the fact that H Mahsud over in them Waziri Hills saw the "oops I did it again" video and decided that he had to cover up Brit Brit.

                SiiNii is actually paying Muslims a complement, if I am reading him correctly. He is saying that he wants to understand the history and the answer to the question:

                'Why do they hate us'

                And what Michael Scheuer did was simply do what an engineer would do... he took all the data points which were the open source statements of Bin Bin and all the other militants and shows that no where in their words do they indicate that they want to stop Britney Spears from singing and that they are mad that we voted here.

                Instead, Scheuer is astutte and points out that our foreign policy and the presence of our forces in the region and our support of Saudi and other tyrannical regimes has created blowback.

                The CIA defines blowback and started discussing it when the fall out from Kermit Roosevelt's messing around in iran (Operation Ajax) occurred.

                I think, if I am correct, that is what SiiNii means... he thinks Muslims need to be honest and frank with their compatriots and not paint a dishonest picture as many fifth column citizens do.

                For instance, many Iraqis like Chalabi told Americans that Iraqis would welcome them with flowers at their feet. Instead, Chalabi was leading the Americans into a horrible trap that sapped blood, treasure, and good will world round.

                So SiiNii doesnt want to hear about how the Insurgents in Iraq represent a focus group of radicals... but rather he wants to know the truth of what caused the people in Iraq to respond to an invasion.

                He wants to get the concept behind Chechnya and what went on there. He wants to understand our history and why the groups there are pissed at the UN etc.
                "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Manzareh View Post
                  So you got a bunch of peaceful people, you start f*king with them, and you dont stop..isnt it innevitable they will make things difficult for you. Who is doing the invading? The mass killings? Dont fool yourself into thinking there is only one side to the story, these people in the east that are being killed are ordinary people, how would you feel if i came into your house beat the crap out of you and ordered you on how to live your life or what your entitled to? Tell us, before you started ****ing with arabs did they pose such a big threat to America? what does peaceful mean to you? peaceful doesnt mean you ignore someone indefinitly imposing themself on you, or does it?.

                  Who cares if you feel your being deceived anyway, whether you feel your being decieved or not makes no difference to why america is in the muslim world and you know it - you forgot about the damn dollers, thats what this is about, its not about america spending billions to benefit the lives of people on the other side of the world, thats all nonsense, if america really cared about other people so much they would put those billions into feeding whole countrys in the 3rd world. how can you even have the audacity to say such a thing. F*k scheuer there's simpler logical ways to summarise this.

                  You as a servent of the government cannot deny that there is a certain level of war mongoring that is needed, the govt needs the public in america to support these injustice acts in other parts of the world, therefore they need to produce a 'scare' every now and then and fuel fox news to keep the public stimulated.

                  And you want to talk about Muslims in the west. Let me tell you, I'm a Muslim in the west, there's millions of us in the west, i dont agree with terrorism and i know Muslims don't want to see anybody hurt. Saying that though, as we are Muslims we are naturally conscious of what happens in the Muslims world more so than the general public which are non-Muslims, when we hear a lie or a deceiving plot to murder millions of muslims it's more blatant to us even to the non religious. Your confusing the word 'peace' with 'ignorance' - Islam is a religion of peace, its not "islam is a religion of ignorance" where the only way to live up to the name of being peaceful is through ignoring the slaughtering of people in your native homelands all in the name of spreading democracy.

                  "Muslims don't support terrorism, but the media supports terrorists" how? well because when you give 0.1% of a group of people a platform your supporting them.
                  SiiNii is saying the same thing as you. I think what he wants is that portion right here that you said:

                  "And you want to talk about Muslims in the west. Let me tell you, I'm a Muslim in the west, there's millions of us in the west, i dont agree with terrorism and i know Muslims don't want to see anybody hurt. Saying that though, as we are Muslims we are naturally conscious of what happens in the Muslims world more so than the general public which are non-Muslims, when we hear a lie or a deceiving plot to murder millions of muslims it's more blatant to us even to the non religious."

                  And he is saying that this is what he wants to know. He doesnt want to hear this BS anymore about how Mullah Omar is actually some black guy who turned out to be a Panjaby who turned out to be a Jew who turned out to be Hamid Gul who was then air dropped into Qandahar to take Afghan women, who were the most advanced in the world, and who were on the verge of deriving the second phase of Einstein's relativity equation, and put them in a metal burqa and back into the house.

                  He wants to know 1 and 1 thing alone: What happened... what did the West do... what do Muslims think about that... and how do these things impact the nationals security of his home country.

                  As Muslims, I think we can be honest like you were there.
                  "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SiiNii View Post
                    Let's pause the trolling, theorizing, and forum drama for a minute and heed both Doctor's words.

                    You PF members who live in the West should study the essays on his website, in them you'll find good talking points when one of us Westerners asks about why some Muslims commit terrorist attacks. It makes no sense to us when you only repeat what we've been hearing for the past decade 'Islam is a religion of peace.' In fact, every time we hear that phrase we feel like we are being deceived.

                    To those who are actually curious, you can point them to Scheuer's website. Emphasize that he is was a high level career CIA agent tasked with tracking Bin Bin. If they won't believe a man with those credentials... you're dealing with the incorrigible, the kind of person who still thinks that Saddam's mobile WMDs are in Syria.

                    SiiNii,

                    What I would say is very VERY hard and is where people in the West of other ethnic and religious affiliation origins have to do is to now take over this discussions and here is why:

                    Before Boston, to discuss this frankly and have a bit of melanin in your skin was not a big deal.... but now, to have a frank discussion can cause someone to be labeled a "terrorist sympathizer."

                    Look at the CNN coverage my friend. The article kept indicating that the Tsarnaev's tried to "justify" the acts, perhaps back then by explaining their view or something.

                    Scheuer has a vanilla coating and a Christian exterior and Republican credentials that keep him glowing and safe.

                    Try hanging out with me one day and wearing the Pakol or our ceremonial clothing and see if you feel comfortable stating Scheuer's own conclusions.

                    Its really hard man. You can be a peaceful person whose funds are all internally US oriented, you can never have traveled, and if you are labeled a radical, your whole life can be turned upside down.

                    Its going to be up to patriots like Ron Paul, Pat Buchanon, and Scheuer to try and move the conversation forward.

                    Just the biology of kinship groups works against Muslims.

                    We had one secular agnostic Pashtun here who went on Canadian TV and stated some of the same things and ended up getting a visit from men in suits simply for answering questions from a Talk Show host.

                    So, thats the issue.
                    Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 04-26-2013, 11:36 PM.
                    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                      Unfortunately, the educated Muslims aren't even shown on TV. If Fox News keeps on playing the same Pakistanis that are burning the US flags, or the same folks in London yelling that they want to Nuke the world, of course some naive people will begin to associate such garbage with Islam, since as soon as the reporter mentions the term Muslim, he shows that garbage. When Jews in Manhattan, raped children, not once was the term 'Jewish' mentioned. When a Jew in Brooklyn, kidnapped a child, chopped off his body, and ate each part of his body for lunch, not once was it mentioned that he is Jewish as well. When Christians bombed the USA decades ago, people didn't question his faith. Why the double-standards and hypocrisy for Muslims? Remember, Hitler too was a Christian, you don't see Muslims associating Christianity with Hitler now do they?

                      I think because of the huge influence Jews/zionists have in America, especially in the media they can pick and choose who to demonise, that's the only logical explanation for that kind of hypocrisy. One may ask "why would the Zionists/Jews want to demonise Muslims? And what would they gain from it?" Maybe it could be for seeing Muslims as the enemy religiously, maybe for political reasons to compete for world dominance or maybe even because they are paranoid of the growth of Islam and need to keep it at bay, possibilities are ever ending.

                      Not sure how true this is but I once was told by an Albanian guy that at the time when Jews were on the run from hitler, what the Albanian Muslims did was take 1 or 2 of whichever Jew they could disguise as a family members into their homes so when the Germans come to kill/kidnap/take back the Jews they won't be able to find them. Jews have been living amongst Muslims for century's, if you speak to an Orthodox Jew he'l tell you exactly what the US govt are up to. Jews the Zionist ones have plenty of money, land, in high positions..why do they want more? when are they going to be satisfied? why continue to persecute Muslims in Palestine and also Iraq,Afghanistan etc? I say Jews because they no doubt pull a lot of strings and decisions in the govt..who no's? Seems really sinister don't you think?
                      ----------

                      *You cannot climb the ladder of success with your hands in your pockets*

                      Originally posted by Karachi
                      like I said, there was only one reason I pretended to be pathan, for a girl, who was from Afghan forums and also registered here

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                        Unfortunately, the educated Muslims aren't even shown on TV. If Fox News keeps on playing the same Pakistanis that are burning the US flags, or the same folks in London yelling that they want to Nuke the world, of course some naive people will begin to associate such garbage with Islam, since as soon as the reporter mentions the term Muslim, he shows that garbage. When Jews in Manhattan, raped children, not once was the term 'Jewish' mentioned. When a Jew in Brooklyn, kidnapped a child, chopped off his body, and ate each part of his body for lunch, not once was it mentioned that he is Jewish as well. When Christians bombed the USA decades ago, people didn't question his faith. Why the double-standards and hypocrisy for Muslims? Remember, Hitler too was a Christian, you don't see Muslims associating Christianity with Hitler now do they?
                        This is also very true. And the Muslims that are shown are either on programs that limit their response times or they dont for some reason have the data at hand to take the discussion to the next level.

                        I mean look at this idiot Fleitz. Every Muslim should know he works for that warmonger John Bolton who is ardent to invade Iran. Muslims should have the chic and the cache to answer with the simple dictums of "Hey Bolton acolyte... if you want to create a world war and send people off to die in Persia, you better lead the way before sacrificing the middle and lower class folks in the US." And every Muslim should know the data if they choose to go on these shows.
                        "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

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                        • #13
                          Admin:
                          The only ones who question if Islam is of peace, from my experience, are uneducated Americans
                          There you go repeating it again! College degree or not, most of us turn on the TV or login to our internet news sites and notice that the majority of conflicts around the non-world involve either Islamic groups vs non-Islamic govts, or fundamentalist Islamic groups vs secular Islamic govts. Every time a Muslim says 'Islam is a religion of peace' the average person will easily conclude they're being lied to.


                          Manzareh:
                          Who cares if you feel your being deceived anyway, whether you feel your being decieved or not makes no difference
                          This is the kind of knee jerk reaction that pushes fence sitters into the camp of those clowns who wear ' Infidel / کافر ' t-shirts.

                          Did you even read or watch what BA posted? Do you know that US intervention in the Middle East began before 'Faux News' ever started broadcasting? I know that you and 99% of Muslims living here are do not support the terrorists, but that doesn't matter, its the opinion of the larger part of the citizens in the West that counts!

                          F*k scheuer there's simpler logical ways to summarise this.
                          Who do you think the average Westerner will have a receptive ear towards, an intensely patriotic, former CIA agent who dedicated his life to serving his country, who also shares his religion, background, who looks like most Americans... or a random foreign looking Muslim guy whose habits are alien to us? What I'm saying is, guys like Scheuer can change Western perceptions, voting habits, politcal support, etc. Muslims living in the West even the ones born here, never can, and will always be cultural aliens...


                          BA:
                          In the aftermath of a minor terrorist attack, irrational anti-Muslim sentiment among Americans are high again you could even say they're on "Code:Red" haha.

                          " We had one secular agnostic Pashtun here who went on Canadian TV and stated some of the same things and ended up getting a visit from men in suits simply for answering questions from a Talk Show host."
                          Which one? Is this interview on youtube I'd like to watch this.


                          To ALL:
                          "I think because of the huge influence Jews/zionists have in America, especially in the media they can pick and choose who to demonise, that's the only logical explanation for that kind of hypocrisy. One may ask "why would the Zionists/Jews want to demonise Muslims? And what would they gain from it?" "
                          Do you think that arguing along this path is helpful? I guarantee you that it doesn't work in your favor, unless your goal is to be labeled at best a tinfoil hat wearing internet conspiracy theorist, at worst an 'Islamo-Facsist'.

                          Remember your audience, try to be more like BA by studying and making use verifiable info and legitimate sources.
                          په پښتو ژبه ټایپ کول تاسو غواري؟ بيا داسې وکړي چې
                          دلته وهي

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SiiNii View Post
                            Admin:

                            There you go repeating it again! College degree or not, most of us turn on the TV or login to our internet news sites
                            Oh the verbal diarrhea. SiiNii, recognize that hypocrisy of the media, that specifically associates garbage activities with Muslims. Without even identifying the religion at first, within the first few minutes of the bomb blast, The Daily News here had already began spewing nonsense about how the man is From Saudi, most likely a Muslim, etc. Now ask yourself, with a degree of common sense, is his religion that important? Since when did terrorists begin having a religion? Does the newspaper not realize that they are further alienating the Muslim community? Sure indeed they realized that we should not constantly mention that the folks who kill innocent Palestenians are Jewish, sure indeed they realized that we should not always mention that Hitler was a Christian, sure indeed they did not mention how the Jew who was kidnapping children and eating them for lunch was a Jew. I mean, the story continues and continues, and just about anyone, with a certain level of logical thinking can see right through the hypocrisy and the obvious psychological warfare.

                            and notice that the majority of conflicts around the non-world involve either Islamic groups vs non-Islamic govts, or fundamentalist Islamic groups vs secular Islamic govts.
                            Perhaps you are being naive here, whether intentionally or unintentionally, recognize that Muslims feel demonized. The ball, if anything, should be in our American armed forces boat. Aside from raping patriotic women in the Armed forces on a monthly basis, and killing innocent CHILDREN in Afghanistan in loads, recognize that those children have families who will revolt and rebel against their governments, which in turn is shown to you on your TV set under God knows what pretext. Now if every common American were to have a brain, they would realize that one of the reasons say Saudi Arabia is so backwards is because we, the American people, with our tax-dollars, fund their tyrannical regime. One of the reasons the Palestinians throw rocks at you and me, when we visit them, is because we, the American people, fund their apartheid state, where even a dark-skinned Jew is frowned upon by the whites, and so forth. If we see Afghans willing to blow themselves up to take, our American blood, recognize that we, the American people, FUNDED and CREATED them 'insurgents', we installed war-lords as their officials, we the American people, in the University of Nebraska, created their text books with questions along the lines of "If you kill 2 Russians today, and 3 Russian next week, how many Russians did you kill in total?", we funded the Taliban, who along with 1 million Afghans lost their lives to serve US political interests, and you still want an apology? If anything, you should be thanking every Afghan you meet, which is exactly what the US government at the time was doing. Not sure how old you are, but do you remember when our president, Ronald Reagan said "These gentlemen are the moral equivalent of the founding fathers", I'm sure back then we didn't consider Muslims to be terrorists now did we? Why? Cause they were serving our interests, and we used to invite them over for some nice Pancakes:




                            Recognize that today, despite the 9/11 bomb blasts being planned in Germany, despite not a single Afghan being involved, we raped and killed innocent Afghans under the pretext of 'invasion'. Do you not think Muslims realize that they feel tortured? Do you think Muslims always were in this shape? Have you educated yourself about the past? Do you know that had it not been in for Scientists, whose religion was Muslim, that we'd not be where we are scientifically? I mean, seriously, we Americans need to drop the ignorance and recognize that we, the Americans, with the help of our armed forces have killed and murdered millions of innocent people. Did you already forget Iraq? What we did over there? I mean, back to the topic, Muslims who were born and raised here, who serve as Professors, Doctors, and Scientists are just sick and tired of explaining daily to you how we are not terrorists, and how our allegiance should not be questioned. We love this nation, just as much as you, in fact, a survey that was conduct in the U.K showed British Muslims are more patriotic than any other immigrant group. Just because we have a few bad apples, that were created and funded by US, or folks who are seeking revenge against us for blowing and destroying their countries, we begin to generalize and are expected to memorize arguments for the singletons who are unaware of our treacherous foreign policy?

                            Every time a Muslim says 'Islam is a religion of peace' the average person will easily conclude they're being lied to.
                            Face-palm. If the media were to NOT show backward Muslims, that serve as an incredible minority, the 'average'(I have no clue how you calculated the average there, but I suspect that you mean the dumb ones)would not feel deceived. Given that I am mostly around those in academia, and other educated folks, I have never in my life felt the need to explain or elaborate upon my faith, but it hurts to see my fellow countrymen, you, expect some kind of 'apology' from us, because of our faith, even though it is US, you and me, whose government has killed innocent Muslims in the millions, whose government has destroyed families, whose government has yet to conduct a proper investigation on 9/11 to determine it's actual origin, whose government invaded Iraq and killed millions, whose government has yet to take care of the situation of our women in the armed forces, where they are sexually assaulted and raped like animals. I mean SiiNii, recognize the hypocrisy here, and work on condemning the media for doing such things. When the Norway Christian killed all those children, did you begin questioning Christians and demanding an explanation? Recognize that I, and BarakzaiAbdali, are the children of this soil as well, and it hurts us when we see you, expecting us to formulate 'explanations' even though the ball is in our court, and if anything, we should be apologizing to the Afghan Nationals, the Korean Nationals, the Japanese Nationals, the Iraqi Nationals, the Pakistani Nationals, whom we have murdered. Unparalleled hypocrisy at its best, and we wonder why are treated like dogs in some countries, perhaps because we a morally desensitized?

                            Caveat:
                            Look up what 'Blowback' means.

                            Best,
                            Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                            A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                            For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                            The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                            -Ferishta, 1560–1620

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BarakzaiAbdali View Post
                              This is also very true. And the Muslims that are shown are either on programs that limit their response times or they dont for some reason have the data at hand to take the discussion to the next level.

                              I mean look at this idiot Fleitz. Every Muslim should know he works for that warmonger John Bolton who is ardent to invade Iran. Muslims should have the chic and the cache to answer with the simple dictums of "Hey Bolton acolyte... if you want to create a world war and send people off to die in Persia, you better lead the way before sacrificing the middle and lower class folks in the US." And every Muslim should know the data if they choose to go on these shows.
                              BA,
                              Limiting the response time, talking over them aside, they don't want to invite sharp thinkers, it would go against their ideology; since they'd get refuted and debunked in seconds. They'd rather invite 'Muslims' who came to the US a year ago, with a heavy accent, who can't even formulate a sentence, to defend 'Islam'. Go figure out why, it's all psychological warfare.
                              Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                              A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                              For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                              The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                              -Ferishta, 1560–1620

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