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  • Taliban Popular in Marjah

    http://news.yahoo.com/taliban-popula...161235459.html

    MARJAH, Afghanistan (AP) — Nearly three years after U.S.-led forces launched the biggest operation of the war to clear insurgents, foster economic growth and set a model for the rest of Afghanistan, angry residents of Helmand province say they are too afraid to go out after dark because of marauding bands of thieves.

    And during the day, they say corrupt police and government officials bully them into paying bribes. After 11 years of war, many here long for a return of the Taliban. They say that under the Taliban, who routinely punished thieves by cutting off a hand, they were at least safe from crime and corruption.

    "If you had a box of cash on your head, you could go to the farthest part of Marjah and no one would take it from you, even at night," said Maulvi Daoud, who runs a cubbyhole sized-shop in the town of Marjah. "Today you bring your motorcycle in front of your shop and it will be gone. Now the situation is that you go on the road and they are standing in police and army uniform with weapons and they can take your money."

    It was in the town of Marjah in early 2010 that some 15,000 NATO and Afghan forces waged the war's biggest battle. They not only fought the Taliban with weapons, they promised to bring good governance to Marjah and the rest of the southern province of Helmand — and demonstrate to the residents the advantages of shunning the militants.

    But it appears the flaw in the plan was with the quality of Afghans chosen by President Hamid Karzai to govern and police the area after most of the fighting ended. And that adds to growing doubts about the entire country's future after foreign troops withdraw by the end of 2014.

    Despite military claims of gains across the province and an overall drop in violence, Marjah residents told The Associated Press that NATO's counterinsurgency experiment has failed. A bleak picture also emerges from anecdotal evidence collected from dozens of interviews with residents elsewhere in the province, some from the most violent districts.

    Many claim the U.S.-funded local police, a type of locally sanctioned militia, routinely demand bribes and threaten to accuse those who do not comply of being members of the Taliban. Good governance never came to Marjah, they say.

    In villages of sun-baked mud homes, at crowded bus stops and in local tea houses where residents sit cross-legged on plastic-covered tables drinking tea and eating off communal plates, people scoffed at claims of security and development. They heaped criticism on the Afghan government and officials, accusing them of stealing billions of dollars in aid money meant for the people and on an international community that they said ignored their needs and pandered to a corrupt administration.

    Daoud, the Marjah shop owner, said there was more security under the country's Taliban regime that was ousted by the U.S.-led invasion in late 2001.

    "They were never cruel to us and the one difference was security. It was better during the Taliban," he said.

    His partner in the rickety shop along Marjah's chaotic one-street bazaar, Mohammed Haider, said poppy farmers who planted substitute crops such as cotton are losing money because they cannot sell their harvests. He predicted poppy production would double when foreign soldiers leave in 2014.

    At a bus stop in Helmand's provincial capital of Lashkar Gah, residents scrambled for dilapidated old buses and cars to go to parts of Helmand. Hamidullah, who like many Afghans uses only one name, was waiting for a bus to Sangin district — the scene of some of the most violent fighting between the Taliban and British and U.S. forces.

    Like the majority of those at the stop, he wanted foreign forces to leave Afghanistan.

    "All these foreign soldiers are here and it is totally insecure everywhere in Helmand," Hamidullah said. "For the time that they are in Afghanistan we will always have war."

    Several of the men scrambling on top the packed buses and jamming themselves into the back of cars seemed to growl at the presence of foreigners in their midst. A single question: "What is the situation like in Helmand today?" brought a cacophony of answers. Many of the voices sounded angry, some sounded weary and a few angry-looking men walked away.

    "We are completely destroyed today," said Hamidullah.

    "The situation is getting worse and worse," shouted a voice in the crowd. Another yelled: "There is no security because of the foreigners." And from a deeply wrinkled elderly man whose voice seemed both angry and sad: "If the foreigners are out of Afghanistan, all the problems will be solved. Are our lives any better?"

    Despite a drop of 8 percent in militant attacks from January to October compared to the same period last year, Helmand and neighboring Nimroz province accounted for 32 percent of all such attacks reported across the country from October 2011 to October this year, according to ISAF.
    Ryan Evans, a research fellow at the U.S.-based Center for National Policy, called Helmand the "most dangerous and violent" of Afghanistan's 34 provinces.

    "From 2010 to early 2012, one of five ISAF soldiers was killed in this one province — Helmand. And the province has since taken more lives and limbs than any other province," said Evans, who worked with U.S. and British troops in Helmand during 2010 and 2011.

    The larger question, of course, is whether what's happening in Helmand is a harbinger of what the rest of Afghanistan will look like after the departure of the international troops.

    A report released last month by the British Parliament's International Development Committee offered grim statistics.

    Afghanistan continues to be one of the poorest countries in the world, with the average person earning less than one dollar a day despite $32 billion in foreign investment.

    The country has also tumbled in corruption ratings assembled by Transparency International. Afghanistan was ranked 117 out of 158 countries in 2005, then slid to 180 out of 183 nations last year. The scandal-ridden Kabul Bank milked millions of dollars from Afghans' savings.
    Analysts who know Helmand say a corrupt government poses one of the biggest hurdles to stability, alienating the local population and driving them into the hands of the Taliban.

    The province is strategically important because of a massive poppy production that is financing the insurgency and fueling criminal activity. While some success has been achieved at getting farmers to plant substitute crops, Helmand is still one of Afghanistan's largest opium-producing provinces, often blamed on anti-government sentiment and collusion between corrupt government officials and the Taliban.
    The NATO-led coalition, known as the International Security Assistance Force, claims there are tangible gains against the Taliban in Helmand and neighboring Kandahar province.

    "While insurgent activity remains problematic in several districts, primarily in northern Helmand and western Kandahar, data from the battle space shows a marked decrease in overall enemy activity," ISAF spokesman Jamie Graybeal said recently.

    Some Afghans believe their countrymen are responsible for the current state of affairs.
    Haji Khalil who moved his family from Marjah to Lashkar Gah during the 2010 offensive, blamed Afghans for the spike in thefts and lawlessness since the defeat of the Taliban.

    "During the Taliban no one would steal because we knew the punishment, but when they left everyone began to steal," Khalil said.
    "We became worse after the Taliban," he said. "The problem is with us."
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

  • #2
    Proving Mike Scheuer of the CIA right once again when he stated this long ago:

    "Scheuer: We're really not in a position to push these people. Who's going to replace them? There isn't anyone less corrupt. Probably the only incorrupt people in Afghanistan are the Taliban. If you want no corruption, give the government back to the Taliban."

    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

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    • #3
      was about to post this.
      There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

      Sayyid Qutb

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
        was about to post this.
        To lighten discussoin with some injected humor and make an apt comparison, have you ever seen the movie 8 Mile with Eminem?
        "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

        Comment


        • #5
          yeah ive seen it, it put detroit in the map for a while but after people did their homework on the city, most people were wishing it were off the map.
          There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

          Sayyid Qutb

          Comment


          • #6
            on a side note, last week i found i could buy a house in detroit for a little over 1000 dollars lol.
            There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

            Sayyid Qutb

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
              yeah ive seen it, it put detroit in the map for a while but after people did their homework on the city, most people were wishing it were off the map.
              OK, so the next question is do you remember the character Wink?

              8 Mile (2/10) Movie CLIP - Wink's Big Deal (2002) HD - YouTube[/URL]

              ^This is the clip to remind you. Wink is the kid talking to Eminem and promising him all this stuff.
              -------------------------------------------------------------
              Basically a real simple and easy way to break down the state of Afghanistan as it is:

              The rural people (have their own issues - BUT they understand their country and its realities far better than anyone else)

              And then theres the elites and the emigres: Karzai, Amin Arsala, Ashraf Ghani, Atmar, etc And all the gas station operators who found their way here to America and Europe and decided that in 2001 their destiny was to become the Afghan Bill Gates.

              These folks, Karzai and the like are basically Wink my friend, talking a big game about how they are going to make Afghanistan enter the G8 era... Just like Wink promises Eminem album deals and riches galore - the corrupt "government" and its emissary cockroach-like emigres (Azmal, cough cough) are promising the simple rural Afghan high fly things like B2 bombers, a replica of the empire state building, a replica of Harvard in Ghazni and even a seat on the famed UN security council.

              And like Wink, they are really just screwing you over and the rural masses get this and know it.

              Every other day you will see some contrived crap coming out of these Winkolyte's mouths: "Well, whatever they say its stillll faaaaar better than the 90s..... Well, how many girls schools did the apes build???? Well, etc etc" Basically these thieving *******s are bragging about how some UN affiliated agency built a fancy building somewhere that doesnt benefit the rural man in Marjah one bit but somehow expect him to be grateful.

              So always remember: whenever you see Karzai think 'Wink'

              When you hear him and Ghani and Arsala and Atmar and all of the like talk, think of this clip of Wink
              "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

              Comment


              • #8
                i love the comparison, but the situation and people are more comparable to people who are closer to home. the middle aged drunk/stoned afghans at family/community functions who talk like they have their ears to the ground in afghanistan. the absolute secularists who like to say that what so and so is doing is "unislamic," i am sure you know the type. it pains me to know that its the likes of these people who have gone back to afghanistan to attain high positions and have become shot callers. now of course they have to play the role of a muslim because their drunken philosophy may fly around like minded trash but it won't among non western indoctrinated afghans.

                when these people need a coalition of a dozen nations and hundreds of thousands of soldiers and security personal to safeguard their vain adventures in afghanistan, something is wrong. the problem with security today is that there are some people who are ready to leave afghanistan with money in their accounts vs people who have nothing to lose.
                There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                Sayyid Qutb

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
                  was about to post this.
                  Really?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    . Probably the only incorrupt people in Afghanistan are the Taliban. If you want no corruption, give the government back to the Taliban."

                    the question is not only the quantity of corruption but the quality , current topakian aka mujahedin = djur jasous d´e harcha .

                    talib = kamm jur walle jasous d´e pakistani .

                    either ways we are screwed , one group just use vaseline the others dont ... none are a real option

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Shah-i-Kot View Post
                      Really?
                      no i wasn't, i just said it to fit in among a fringe group of talibs on the forum since its such a coveted group to be a part of. i am a poser afghan and i am wearing a christmas sweater right now.
                      There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                      Sayyid Qutb

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
                        no i wasn't, i just said it to fit in among a fringe group of talibs on the forum since its such a coveted group to be a part of. i am a poser afghan and i am wearing a christmas sweater right now.
                        Beforehand, being against the US/NATO/Pak war does not make someone a Taliban supporter. Anti-War does not equal Pro-Taliban.

                        Posting widely read and respected journal/magazine articles on a forum (that may reject a Pro-War narrative) also does not make someone a Pro-anything.

                        Barakzai posting this article (which was republished by many news organizations) does not make him Pro-Talib. Does it support his point of being against foreign intervention? Off course. It fits in with what most Anti-War/non-interventionists have said all along.

                        But back to this.

                        This article nullifies the narrative that the Afghan insurgency has no support from the population and is a 'Pakistanicentric' insurgency- something that you have pushed around.

                        So it is suprising that you would have posted an article that rejects this narrative.
                        Last edited by Shah-i-Kot; 12-15-2012, 04:11 PM.

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