TTP condemns Grossman’s statement about Durand Line

[Shahidulla]

but they are when they are a lot of the time, and Afghan history IS ALL ABOUT power hunger.

Afghanistan has always had a very corrupt culture. that's just something you'll have , just because Ahmad Shah Abdali poses as a pious Muslim in his writings, doesn't make him one.

Look at the Taliban, hardly pious, but they posture themselves with an islamic coin. I can very rightly say they're power hungry, power hungry and smart are not the same thing. The Qizilbash were power hungry AND smart, Taliban are power hungry and dumb, hence they had this delusion that they could take on America.

Intellectual honesty requires one address history as it is, not as you want it to be. And in this case you have lacked in this area; everything Pashtuns have deluded themselves into thinking is the opposite

some common pashtun myths

1.) Pashtuns have never been conquered
2.) Pashtuns are 5000 years old
3.) Pashtuns are generally pious Muslims
4.) Pashtuns are descendants of Israelites
5.) Pashtuns are Ghairatmand

Our culture is based on pathological self delusion and lying.

every other culture/nation can have mythes like these.

but when it comes to what sort of myths a nation/people represent then its those 5 above so it has nothing to do with lies and delusion. Its mere a talk or something that has been proven by history, we can make things as much blury as it can be and mark them bad as easy as **** like you just did.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I do agree with you about the corruption, but you discussed about afghan leaders which was verry negative and not accurate at all . But you should know that we respect them for what they did right what others couldn't achieve like our leaders mirwais khan, khushal khan khattak and many others, and not what they were doing wrong, but in your posts you sound like only downgrading the leaders of pashtuns which is wrong in my opinion you should put some critic on it but sometimes [U]you run out of facts and you make people think you are a hater.

That's because you're not looking at the whole debate ...Khushal is just repeating the same excuses despite any evidence ...he just mindlessly Referred to something that HE HIMSELF never read and claims it as a factual rebuttla

hence the only valid arguments here is that he's just doing so to perpetuate the romanticism of Pashtun history. I agree with you that MOST cultures do this. But many have accepted that it's exaggerations by their ancestors or they're beliefs not properly examined.

Also bear in mind I only used the same references that Khushal used, except he was cherry picking and looked for parts which superficially made it appear like it worked in his favor.

[khushal]

That's because you're not looking at the whole debate ...Khushal is just repeating the same excuses despite any evidence ...he just mindlessly Referred to something that HE HIMSELF never read and claims it as a factual rebuttla

hence the only valid arguments here is that he's just doing so to perpetuate the romanticism of Pashtun history. I agree with you that MOST cultures do this. But many have accepted that it's exaggerations by their ancestors or they're beliefs not properly examined.

Also bear in mind I only used the same references that Khushal used, except he was cherry picking and looked for parts which superficially made it appear like it worked in his favor.

your just spitting out nonsense. Its you who is cherry picking. It was I who first mentioned Khushal Khattaks history of being a moghul officer and the reasons behind it and Abdalis history with Nadir Shah. How those two were nurtured and then destroyed their nurterers. That was the whole point of my argument.

The mentally sick nonsense you spit out is like some retard American blabbing about how George Washington was a British Bitch who one day grew a pair. I guess his face on Mount Rushmore and the Washington Memorial in DC, not to mention his face on the USD are tributes to his exaggerations and made up myths. Your stupidity is embarrassing.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Hey I'm not Pro-American by any means so whatever ...you need to learn to separate peoples romanticization of history (building monuments etc) from history itself.

Khushal Khan Khattak is no big deal, Ahmad Shah Abdali wasn't some Pashtun hero. Mir-Wais Khan is the only one who can legitimately be classified as a hero out of all the dignitaries, but even he has many short comings.


what's mentally sick about looking at history honestly? You try deperately to appeal to emotion.

[Shahidulla]

Hey I'm not Pro-American by any means so whatever ...you need to learn to separate peoples romanticization of history (building monuments etc) from history itself.

Khushal Khan Khattak is no big deal, Ahmad Shah Abdali wasn't some Pashtun hero. Mir-Wais Khan is the only one who can legitimately be classified as a hero out of all the dignitaries, but even he has many short comings.


what's mentally sick about looking at history honestly? You try deperately to appeal to emotion.

Such thing as legitimately classified hero(only in hollywood movies) every leader is a hero for their good deeds all of em khushal khan ahmad shah and many others. I already told you you can make thing as good as they can ever be or mark the as bad like you are just doing again. But the point is history has proven itself and thats what counts, i would like you not to ruin it by your side facts(if they are facts indeed) . Its like your saying that nobody is perfect but we already knew that there are no real spiderman, superman and batman in real world just speak of ur leaders for what they did for the people. And lets keep it out a realistic leader/hero whatsoever.

if you are going to back up your legitimately classified hero then do so and come with athentic facts but ur just yelling it out.
You are becoming really annoying now man, u keep backwarding afghan leaders . If you would look at ur way , its ok to tell some things that weren't fair, but you are insulting i can clearly see it. If i was admin i wouldve banned you right away.

You are just leaning more into seeking the bad part in everything and insult the leaders.
Even if you did explain some mistakes of our leaders then they should be authentic and have a resource and not be build up by some background facts in which our leaders when stuck in and then got out of it, ofcourse almost every afghan leaned on foreign money and then recognized himself.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Well I don't mind being a nuisance to the Pashtun community

I think we need that to re-think how we see ourselves

[abassinafghan]

go back to turkey you tribal idiot .

i have never seen such a dumb person like you revolution

[RevolutionThroughReason]

go back to turkey you tribal idiot .

i have never seen such a dumb person like you revolution

tell that to all Ghiziyan

[Shahidulla]

Well I don't mind being a nuisance to the Pashtun community

I think we need that to re-think how we see ourselves

Ofcourse you re thinking our leaders but ur also insulting them, ur not just telling authentic facts (you turn every fact into your own bad insulting way). it seems you get emotional when u talk about afghan leaders.

are u even afghan/pashtun? this my last post here bro ,

[khushal]

Ofcourse you re thinking our leaders but ur also insulting them, ur not just telling authentic facts (you turn every fact into your own bad insulting way). it seems you get emotional when u talk about afghan leaders.

are u even afghan/pashtun? this my last post here bro ,

he claims to be pashtun from paternal side and a yemani from maternal side who was born and raised in America listening to that heavy metal hitting your head against the wall music. So he is confused with an identity crises who probably was rejected by recent immigrant pashtuns and most of the first generation pashtun americans who are brainwashed with the medias hype of blaming everything on the arabs have also rejected him because of his maternal side so he is on a mission to make all pashtuns feel as though they are from a corrupt, slave minded, criminal, submissive backward culture who have no one to look up to in their societies history.

Look how he turns an arab and western stigma into a pashtun one in this thread:
http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=28896

[khushal]

tell that to all Ghiziyan

Go to Afghanistan and spit out what you spit out here on this forum to a Ghilzai, you will be rewarded with a broken mouth.

[khushal]

Hey I'm not Pro-American by any means so whatever ...you need to learn to separate peoples romanticization of history (building monuments etc) from history itself.

Khushal Khan Khattak is no big deal, Ahmad Shah Abdali wasn't some Pashtun hero. Mir-Wais Khan is the only one who can legitimately be classified as a hero out of all the dignitaries, but even he has many short comings.


what's mentally sick about looking at history honestly? You try deperately to appeal to emotion.

You didnt understand my post. What Im saying is that an American saying that about George Washington is as retarded as you saying that about Khushal Khattak. Nothing is exaggerated nor mythological about either men.

What about Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn, was he also a traitor to the Kurds?

[Shah-i-Kot]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/post/marc-grossman-resigning-afghan-pakistan-post/2012/11/27/4488438a-38df-11e2-8a97-363b0f9a0ab3_blog.html

Posted at 05:41 PM ET, 11/27/2012 Marc Grossman resigning Afghan-Pakistan post

By Karen DeYoung


Marc Grossman, the special U.S. envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, in Copenhagen in March. (Jens Dresling - AP) Senior diplomat Marc Grossman has resigned as the State Department’s special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, effective Dec. 14.
Grossman, who had previously served as undersecretary for political affairs, assistant secretary for Europe and ambassador to Turkey, was persuaded to put a second career at the Cohen Group on hold to take the SRAP position after Richard C. Holbrooke, who had inaugurated the job, died in December 2010.
The SRAP job is one of several senior envoy positions the Obama administration created to coordinate particularly vexing diplomatic challenges that spanned several countries. Former senator George Mitchell, who served as special envoy for Middle East Peace, was replaced last year by David Hale, a senior foreign service officer.
Grossman, who plans to return to private life, will be replaced in an acting capacity by his current deputy, David D. Pearce. Before moving to the SRAP office early this year, Pearce served as assistant chief of mission at the U.S. Embassy in Afghanistan and was ambassador to Algeria.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

You didnt understand my post. What Im saying is that an American saying that about George Washington is as retarded as you saying that about Khushal Khattak. Nothing is exaggerated nor mythological about either men.

What about Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn, was he also a traitor to the Kurds?

he's not being claimed as a Kurdish nationalist hero nor is he being claimed as "baba-e-hewad" or whatever nonsense

why is Americans saying that retarded? why can't Americans say that? You act like Americans are as gullible as the average Pashtun to praise past heroes. yes many Americans are, but many Americans rightfully critique George Washington without reservation, and I feel we should do the same with Khushal Khan

the reason being is because individuals like you, use their memory as some validation for criminal organizations like the Taliban, in their behavior and operations. This psychology of blind ancestor sanctification has to be nipped in the bud. Heck if we kept this going 200 years from now we may think Gulbuddin Hekmatyar was the 2nd Mir-Wais Khan and Karzai the 2nd Ahmad Shah

[Shahidulla]

he's not being claimed as a Kurdish nationalist hero nor is he being claimed as "baba-e-hewad" or whatever nonsense

why is Americans saying that retarded? why can't Americans say that? You act like Americans are as gullible as the average Pashtun to praise past heroes. yes many Americans are, but many Americans rightfully critique George Washington without reservation, and I feel we should do the same with Khushal Khan

the reason being is because individuals like you, use their memory as some validation for criminal organizations like the Taliban, in their behavior and operations. This psychology of blind ancestor sanctification has to be nipped in the bud. Heck if we kept this going 200 years from now we may think Gulbuddin Hekmatyar was the 2nd Mir-Wais Khan and Karzai the 2nd Ahmad Shah

you are comparing two diffrent people in diffrent times so u are damn wrong. but ur right about the rest.
We should never compare hekmatyar or G.W with our proud leader kushal khan or mirwais khan. I think you are mistaken G.W was in a verry diffren time/region then khushal khan baba. ur nuts man yea you heard me ur out of ur mind.