"Afghanistan" seeks bigger Indian presence in war-torn nation

[ډګروال]

NEW DELHI: Afghanistan will make a concerted push for India to have a bigger presence in that country when Afghan president Hamid Karzai comes here on a state visit here next week.


Although India and Afghanistan will sign four memorandum of understandings (MoUs) on mining, fertilizers, youth affairs and small development projects the core message that Karzai will emphasize upon the Indian leadership is that Kabul cannot be allowed to sink into chaos after the US leaves in 2014, said Shaida Mohammed Abdali, the Afghan envoy in India, briefing reporters ahead of the visit. This would mean a greater role for India in the training of Afghan security forces, including police.

Karzai will begin his trip from Mumbai where he will meet industry leaders, and push for investment in a nation that is beset with security challenges. Fears abound that Taliban may return to Kabul which might jeopardize investments in that country. Abdali said the Afghan government keeps India fully briefed on the peace talks with the Taliban. "There is strong attention to the strategic aspects of the relationship," he said. Ultimately, the political reconciliation process would have to involve Pakistan, which retains close ties with the Taliban.

Describing the backdrop of Karzai's visit as "critical", Abdali said Afghanistan did not count India as part of the international community but much more than that. "India did not come in 2001 and will not leave in 2014," Abdali said. Karzai will deliver the annual Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad annual lecture on November 11.

PM Manmohan Singh and Karzai will hold intensive talks on bilateral and regional security situation on November 12 here. India's interests would be on security to Indian interests and projects. Indicating that the two sides will also explore ways to step up Indian training for Afghan national security forces during the visit, Abdali said, "India has committed itself to strengthening security of Afghanistan."

He also noted that there were "still pockets of insurgent groups and sanctuaries of terror" in his country and stressed the need for intensifying international and regional cooperation in combating terrorism. Other reports say Taliban is increasing its footprint in Afghanistan, and the country may plunge into chaos after 2014.

"We need to cooperate against combating terrorism. We don't have a satisfactory situation so far," Abdali said. "India is focusing on life-changing initiatives for Afghanistan and the region," he added.

[faye]

if i were a muslim, running afghanistan, i would be asking advice from mahatir and the malaysians. i think those mob have it together, there.

[Admin Khan]

He is doing this to tick Pakistan off, and show Pakistan that Afghanistan has other regional 'friends' that is willing to help her, if she keeps on supporting elements that are out to destabilize the country. Politics as usual. What these two hardheaded nations don't realize is by making the other unstable, or destabilized, the source country will also adversely be affected.

[pashtanajan]

He is doing this to tick Pakistan off, and show Pakistan that Afghanistan has other regional 'friends' that is willing to help her, if she keeps on supporting elements that are out to destabilize the country. Politics as usual. What these two hardheaded nations don't realize is by making the other unstable, or destabilized, the source country will also adversely be affected.

You're right, but I don't think Pakistan or anyone else for that matter can take Karzai seriously. One day, Karzai says that Pakistan is a breeding ground for terrorists and the next day he goes on to say, "God forbid, if there is ever a war between Pakistan and America, then we will side with Pakistan." What is his point? He is very incoherent in his beliefs and what he wishes for Afghanistan. I can't take him seriously, but then after all – he is just a puppet and says what he is told to say.

[Admin Khan]

Dirty politics, it's just that he isn't good at it. Essentially what he wants to do is show Pakistan he is a friend, yet show him that if you mess with me, I can also flex my muscle and contact India. As we know, Pakistan is very good at having two if not three faces, Karzai is just a trainee who wishes to reach that level. Aside from that, I heard he has some psychological problems as well.

[pashtanajan]

Dirty politics, it's just that he isn't good at it. Essentially what he wants to do is show Pakistan he is a friend, yet show him that if you mess with me, I can also flex my muscle and contact India. As we know, Pakistan is very good at having two if not three faces, Karzai is just a trainee who wishes to reach that level. Aside from that, I heard he has some psychological problems as well.

Well of course, Karzai can't be psychologically normal. I feel a tad bit sorry for him. To be honest, I feel as though in his heart he wants to be a decent guy, but then again I have no proof for my assumption. Unfortunately, Pakistan will always have the mightier hold, as long as*they've got ISI agents and their Taliban thwarting with Afghanistan's future. Nothing Karzai has done has fazed Pakistan. I sometimes think he has unintentionally played along to their tune as well.

[asad71]

1.Karzai should really be interested in pulling out safe and sound. His Afghan Restaurant chain is waiting for him in USA. And if the reports appearing in this form are even partially true, he has become a rich man.

2. It seems not Karzai but what IEA / Mulla Omar says or thinks is relevant here.

[ډګروال]

Well of course, Karzai can't be psychologically normal. I feel a tad bit sorry for him. To be honest, I feel as though in his heart he wants to be a decent guy, but then again I have no proof for my assumption. Unfortunately, Pakistan will always have the mightier hold, as long as*they've got ISI agents and their Taliban thwarting with Afghanistan's future. Nothing Karzai has done has fazed Pakistan. I sometimes think he has unintentionally played along to their tune as well.

Karzai is responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands if not millions of Afghans.He is the epitome of how a traitorous snake looks like.

yet you want to give this massmurderer puppet and the one who did a coup on Afghan governement while came in an helicopter from Islamabad.

on the other hand you call taliban as being pakistani agents without a single shred of evidence ,except that you hate them.

reply when you have dropped the bias.

[ډګروال]

in this topic we have an Abdali who is professing Indians to invade Afghanistan whiel historically Ahmad Shah Abdali defeated hindus and ruled india.

this is pathetic and a slap at the face of our great ancesters and disrespect to the name abdali.

[Apollyon]

Afghanistan and India has relations that date back thousands of years from the initial aryan migration south bound. The concern for Afghanistan is the father less nation Porkistan stealing the right and not giving full measure where its due.. Pockets of innocent Afghans. Then again I can say the same for the other neighboring nations Iran or the surrounding orientals etc..

[pashtanajan]

Karzai is responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands if not millions of Afghans.He is the epitome of how a traitorous snake looks like.

yet you want to give this massmurderer puppet and the one who did a coup on Afghan governement while came in an helicopter from Islamabad.

on the other hand you call taliban as being pakistani agents without a single shred of evidence ,except that you hate them.

reply when you have dropped the bias.

Aha, I don't support the Taliban and neither do I support Karzai's regime. Karzai is a puppet – I've mentioned this in previous posts. If a strong individual (unlike Karzai) rises and tries to defend his country and tries to stand up for his people, how long do you think he/she will survive? He'll most likely be assassinated. Karzai is trying to save his own neck, and of his family's –*he's surrounded by warlords in the parliament (who'll kill him if they don't have a position in Afghanistan's government) and NATO holding their guns at his back. You see things far too black and white*– the situation in Afghanistan is quite complex.

Moreover, the TALIBAN have BEEN created by Pakistan. Bin Laden was found and killed in Abottabad, Pakistan. Abottabad is known for its MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS. Now, why would Bin Laden be hiding in Abottabad of all places?

You see, the Taliban were largely founded by Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) in 1994. The ISI used the Taliban to establish a regime in Afghanistan which would be favorable to Pakistan, as they were trying to gain strategic depth. Since the creation of the Taliban, the ISI and the Pakistani military have given financial, logistical and military support. However, the CIA worked with the ISI to create the Taliban. And now, here's the US –*back in Afghanistan –*fighting what they've helped create, hmm... something fishy is going on, don't you think?

Also, here's an interesting piece: According to Weinbaum, Pakistan has two policies. One is an official policy of promoting stability in Afghanistan; the other is an unofficial policy of supporting jihadis in order to appease political forces within Pakistan. "The second [policy] undermines the first one," he says. Nawaz says there is ambivalence within the army regarding support for the Taliban. "They'd rather not deal with the Afghan Taliban as an adversary," he says. Taken from this website, which I advise you to read: http://www.cfr.org/pakistan/isi-terr...ions/p11644#p6

Why don't you start thinking with logic? What kind of aid did the Taliban bring to Afghanistan when they were in power? How did they help Afghanistan? What makes you think if they gain power they'd be able to stabilize Afghanistan? Where and how did the Taliban get their military equipment and training? They obviously couldn't have just dropped down to the ground from the sky in 1996, creating the 'Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.'

Now, am I biased? Haha. You categorize me as pro-Karzai regime just from a single post? I've showed you evidence and my reasoning for my dislike towards the Taliban – evidence that you may or may not wish to believe in, as most people I've come across like you only believe in what they wish to believe.

Furthermore, if your form of a 'stable Afghanistan' is the Afghanistan during the Taliban era, I have nothing more to say to you. Believe in what you wish.

P.S - try to read my previous post you've quoted again: Well of course, Karzai can't be psychologically normal. I feel a tad bit sorry for him. To be honest, I feel as though in his heart he wants to be a decent guy, but then again I have no proof for my assumption. Unfortunately, Pakistan will always have the mightier hold, as long as*they've got ISI agents and their Taliban thwarting with Afghanistan's future. Nothing Karzai has done has fazed Pakistan. I sometimes think he has unintentionally played along to their tune as well.

What here in my post gives you the idea that I support Karzai in what he does? I've bolded that part mainly because I PERSONALLY am declaring that I have no proof for my assumption about Karzai wishing to be a decent guy – why in the world do you think I'm for Karzai? Nothing in my posts leads to such an assumption. You should stop analyzing my posts - looking for more than there actually is.

[ډګروال]

Aha, I don't support the Taliban and neither do I support Karzai's regime.

Both dont require your or my support.

Karzai is a puppet – I've mentioned this in previous posts. If a strong individual (unlike Karzai) rises and tries to defend his country and tries to stand up for his people, how long do you think he/she will survive?
He'll most likely be assassinated.

If another Leader comes in power and works for Afghanistan,that will be great ,i dont know if he will be assasinated as i cant see in the future like you do.Also its not what you want,it is what the Afghans who are living in such conditions want.me and you can add by using our gained knowledge to help people with whatever we can but we arent to be playing like we are somesort of saviors because we have a degree and live in the west.

Karzai is trying to save his own neck, and of his family's –*he's surrounded by warlords in the parliament (who'll kill him if they don't have a position in Afghanistan's government) and NATO holding their guns at his back. You see things far too black and white*– the situation in Afghanistan is quite complex.

It is complex for you because you dont seem to think neutral and unbiased and claim that a chunk of Afghans who enjoy over 70% of support from the Afghan population as merely agents of an entity like pakistan.Even though it is a fact that pakistan has pledged support to defeat them,be it by undressing Taliban Ambassador to infront of their employees and beating him or supply routes or support for drone attacks.The situation becomes complex when you forget the Afghan history and act like it must be isi because Afghans will never oppose occupation.

Moreover, the TALIBAN have BEEN created by Pakistan. Bin Laden was found and killed in Abottabad, Pakistan. Abottabad is known for its MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS. Now, why would Bin Laden be hiding in Abottabad of all places?

The Taliban have been created by no one but themselves and we all know how it happend ,Read Mullah Zaef's boook or listen to his interviews.no need to hear your fox news version which is in support of Northern alliance version of the events.Bin ladin is totally irrelevant,but offcourse he got an Islamic burial at sea.

You see, the Taliban were largely founded by Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) in 1994.

made up to delegitimise their opposition to the invasion of Afghanistan. Taliban were created because of warlords ,the incident where Commander of a warlord had kidnapped kandahari girls and rapped them.You calling it an ISI plot means that conservative traditional pashtuns are ISI agents and offcourse that means the majority of pashtuns are isi agents but offcourse Afghans would not naturally oppose an occupation or rapist warlords.I rather believe a kandahari than some tall tale.

The ISI used the Taliban to establish a regime in Afghanistan which would be favorable to Pakistan, as they were trying to gain strategic depth.

Says who,or did you get this from a thintank somewhere ?
do you have any proof?
did they recognise the durrand line which karzai will have to accept?
btw if you believe that than you probably believe that pashtuns of pukhtuknkhwa are RAW,Israeli zionist agents.

Since the creation of the Taliban, the ISI and the Pakistani military have given financial, logistical and military support. However, the CIA worked with the ISI to create the Taliban.

LOL
it even gets better,now cia created taliban,look guys Cia persueded the most conservative elements of Afghan society ,to do what?
seems like some sort of twisted conspiracy theory to avoid ground realities.

And now, here's the US –*back in Afghanistan –*fighting what they've helped create, hmm... something fishy is going on, don't you think?

Something MUST be fishy and if there wasnt something fishy you will just make something up to make it look fishy.

Also, here's an interesting piece: According to Weinbaum, Pakistan has two policies. One is an official policy of promoting stability in Afghanistan; the other is an unofficial policy of supporting jihadis in order to appease political forces within Pakistan. "The second [policy] undermines the first one," he says. Nawaz says there is ambivalence within the army regarding support for the Taliban. "They'd rather not deal with the Afghan Taliban as an adversary," he says. Taken from this website, which I advise you to read: http://www.cfr.org/pakistan/isi-terr...ions/p11644#p6

Thats what a Weinbaum(wine tree) says ,to you that might be the truth carved in the stone but to me it means nothing.
and you are directing me to the website of CFR ?
is that your source?

Why don't you start thinking with logic?

Sure ,sure because some Weinbaum or an Apfelbaum said it.
its ironic though that you would ask why i dont think with logic.
I just dont follow your logic which you have because you have this external look at Afghansitan while ignoring the facts and ground reality.Above all howAfghans view/experience the situation.

What kind of aid did the Taliban bring to Afghanistan when they were in power?

When they were in power is a different story and a different topic.
back than there were sanctions imposed on them and many countries didnt recognise them because of (according to you) the same people who created them in the first place through ISI. thats a whole new conspiracy theory in itself.Offcourse you didnt protest against those sanctions because of which thousands of people died.They only protested when the budah statues got bombed.
What did you do when they were in power?

How did they help Afghanistan?

How did you help Afghanistan?
they brought security ,eradicated poppy and saved the honour of Afghan women.
offcourse they didnt build roads etc ,but that wasnt what the people needed in that time and if you think you are so smart and thought you could do it better you should have gone there and helped. instead you condemn them in support of sanctions(by default).

What makes you think if they gain power they'd be able to stabilize Afghanistan? Where and how did the Taliban get their military equipment and training? They obviously couldn't have just dropped down to the ground from the sky in 1996, creating the 'Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.'

I dont think they want to "gain power",even thoguh they do control large portion of AFG,,because they are supported by the local Afghans ,otherwise how in the hell could they survive so long? must be the isi.
afghanistan can only be stabilized once the foreign occupation comes to an end ,thats what is the taliban's demand/excuse,whatever you want to call it.they dont wish to rule or gain power but help create a government where all Afghans are represented.If they didnt keep their promise than i will eb against them as well but offcourse their are some who oppose reconciliation and peace and want to rule liek they did the last ten years or in the early 90's.

obviously Afghanistan was full of weapons and it still is.
they captured the most more the warlords and they also unarmed the civilians.If you want to truelly knwo than should ask them.Unless you have some sort of conspiracy theory for taht as well.

Now, am I biased? Haha. You categorize me as pro-Karzai regime just from a single post? I've showed you evidence and my reasoning for my dislike towards the Taliban – evidence that you may or may not wish to believe in, as most people I've come across like you only believe in what they wish to believe.
Furthermore, if your form of a 'stable Afghanistan' is the Afghanistan during the Taliban era, I have nothing more to say to you. Believe in what you wish.

your reasoning is wrong because you make a false claim and are looking for the reason/faulty evidence to justify it.
Are you pro occupation of AFG? do you believe its a good thing that foreign occupiers leave the country?
do you think that will bring security and prosperity or will it bring if they stay?
you are the one who refuses to believe in facts and wishes that external reports and etc were to be true because you oppose the views Afghans hold.People like me wish to be unbiased and wish respect the views of Afghans back home(even if i disagree with their views) instead of imposing my one view upon them and in its support unleash a barrage of lies,disinfo and wishful thinking.
I dont believe in some sort of taliban era type rule,but sure i dont see them as foreigners and agents.
i believe in reconciliation and not continues war.
do you support reconciliation?

P.S - try to read my previous post you've quoted again: Well of course, Karzai can't be psychologically normal. I feel a tad bit sorry for him. To be honest, I feel as though in his heart he wants to be a decent guy, but then again I have no proof for my assumption. Unfortunately, Pakistan will always have the mightier hold, as long as*they've got ISI agents and their Taliban thwarting with Afghanistan's future. Nothing Karzai has done has fazed Pakistan. I sometimes think he has unintentionally played along to their tune as well.

reread it and to be honest i dont care if you support karzai or not ,you might as well do.What difference does it make? you already oppose his opposition with a passion.
Pakistan isnt the player you are trying to make believe,the only reason they count is because they have the supply line for extension of the occupation and support drone strikes and offcourse incursion of Pukhtunkhwa and shelling of Kunar.
just take a look at the latest visit by american diplomate to pakistan,he said durrand line is international border ,and he doesnt care what the kabul regime thinks about it.

What here in my post gives you the idea that I support Karzai in what he does? I've bolded that part mainly because I PERSONALLY am declaring that I have no proof for my assumption about Karzai wishing to be a decent guy – why in the world do you think I'm for Karzai? Nothing in my posts leads to such an assumption. You should stop analyzing my posts - looking for more than there actually is.

what makes you even think that?

do you think karzai doesnt present himself as the good guy?

if taliban are bad than karzai,mohaqiq,Marshal fahim,etc are the good guys.Because most of what you believe are professed by these same people,and they are actually doing soemthing abotu it,which is helping to have taliban defeated and making Afghanistan a market where international players can get richer while Afghans will face a situation like Nigeria.

PS: my english isnt that good because im not a english speaker.

[pashtanajan]

Both dont require your or my support.



If another Leader comes in power and works for Afghanistan,that will be great ,i dont know if he will be assasinated as i cant see in the future like you do.Also its not what you want,it is what the Afghans who are living in such conditions want.me and you can add by using our gained knowledge to help people with whatever we can but we arent to be playing like we are somesort of saviors because we have a degree and live in the west.




It is complex for you because you dont seem to think neutral and unbiased and claim that a chunk of Afghans who enjoy over 70% of support from the Afghan population as merely agents of an entity like pakistan.Even though it is a fact that pakistan has pledged support to defeat them,be it by undressing Taliban Ambassador to infront of their employees and beating him or supply routes or support for drone attacks.The situation becomes complex when you forget the Afghan history and act like it must be isi because Afghans will never oppose occupation.



The Taliban have been created by no one but themselves and we all know how it happend ,Read Mullah Zaef's boook or listen to his interviews.no need to hear your fox news version which is in support of Northern alliance version of the events.Bin ladin is totally irrelevant,but offcourse he got an Islamic burial at sea.



made up to delegitimise their opposition to the invasion of Afghanistan. Taliban were created because of warlords ,the incident where Commander of a warlord had kidnapped kandahari girls and rapped them.You calling it an ISI plot means that conservative traditional pashtuns are ISI agents and offcourse that means the majority of pashtuns are isi agents but offcourse Afghans would not naturally oppose an occupation or rapist warlords.I rather believe a kandahari than some tall tale.



Says who,or did you get this from a thintank somewhere ?
do you have any proof?
did they recognise the durrand line which karzai will have to accept?
btw if you believe that than you probably believe that pashtuns of pukhtuknkhwa are RAW,Israeli zionist agents.




LOL
it even gets better,now cia created taliban,look guys Cia persueded the most conservative elements of Afghan society ,to do what?
seems like some sort of twisted conspiracy theory to avoid ground realities.



Something MUST be fishy and if there wasnt something fishy you will just make something up to make it look fishy.



Thats what a Weinbaum(wine tree) says ,to you that might be the truth carved in the stone but to me it means nothing.
and you are directing me to the website of CFR ?
is that your source?




Sure ,sure because some Weinbaum or an Apfelbaum said it.
its ironic though that you would ask why i dont think with logic.
I just dont follow your logic which you have because you have this external look at Afghansitan while ignoring the facts and ground reality.Above all howAfghans view/experience the situation.



When they were in power is a different story and a different topic.
back than there were sanctions imposed on them and many countries didnt recognise them because of (according to you) the same people who created them in the first place through ISI. thats a whole new conspiracy theory in itself.Offcourse you didnt protest against those sanctions because of which thousands of people died.They only protested when the budah statues got bombed.
What did you do when they were in power?




How did you help Afghanistan?
they brought security ,eradicated poppy and saved the honour of Afghan women.
offcourse they didnt build roads etc ,but that wasnt what the people needed in that time and if you think you are so smart and thought you could do it better you should have gone there and helped. instead you condemn them in support of sanctions(by default).



I dont think they want to "gain power",even thoguh they do control large portion of AFG,,because they are supported by the local Afghans ,otherwise how in the hell could they survive so long? must be the isi.
afghanistan can only be stabilized once the foreign occupation comes to an end ,thats what is the taliban's demand/excuse,whatever you want to call it.they dont wish to rule or gain power but help create a government where all Afghans are represented.If they didnt keep their promise than i will eb against them as well but offcourse their are some who oppose reconciliation and peace and want to rule liek they did the last ten years or in the early 90's.

obviously Afghanistan was full of weapons and it still is.
they captured the most more the warlords and they also unarmed the civilians.If you want to truelly knwo than should ask them.Unless you have some sort of conspiracy theory for taht as well.




your reasoning is wrong because you make a false claim and are looking for the reason/faulty evidence to justify it.
Are you pro occupation of AFG? do you believe its a good thing that foreign occupiers leave the country?
do you think that will bring security and prosperity or will it bring if they stay?
you are the one who refuses to believe in facts and wishes that external reports and etc were to be true because you oppose the views Afghans hold.People like me wish to be unbiased and wish respect the views of Afghans back home(even if i disagree with their views) instead of imposing my one view upon them and in its support unleash a barrage of lies,disinfo and wishful thinking.
I dont believe in some sort of taliban era type rule,but sure i dont see them as foreigners and agents.
i believe in reconciliation and not continues war.
do you support reconciliation?




reread it and to be honest i dont care if you support karzai or not ,you might as well do.What difference does it make? you already oppose his opposition with a passion.
Pakistan isnt the player you are trying to make believe,the only reason they count is because they have the supply line for extension of the occupation and support drone strikes and offcourse incursion of Pukhtunkhwa and shelling of Kunar.
just take a look at the latest visit by american diplomate to pakistan,he said durrand line is international border ,and he doesnt care what the kabul regime thinks about it.



what makes you even think that?

do you think karzai doesnt present himself as the good guy?

if taliban are bad than karzai,mohaqiq,Marshal fahim,etc are the good guys.Because most of what you believe are professed by these same people,and they are actually doing soemthing abotu it,which is helping to have taliban defeated and making Afghanistan a market where international players can get richer while Afghans will face a situation like Nigeria.

PS: my english isnt that good because im not a english speaker.

I reply with words from my previous post, "Now, am I biased? Haha. You categorize me as pro-Karzai regime just from a single post? I've showed you evidence and my reasoning for my dislike towards the Taliban – evidence that you may or may not wish to believe in, as most people I've come across like you only believe in what they wish to believe. ?

I do not desire to further discuss this issue with you. It will lead to a conversation that will go around in circles. I hope you come to realize soon enough how deluded you truly are. I pity not only you, but the likes of you.

Salam.

[ډګروال]

I reply with words from my previous post, "Now, am I biased? Haha. You categorize me as pro-Karzai regime just from a single post? I've showed you evidence and my reasoning for my dislike towards the Taliban – evidence that you may or may not wish to believe in, as most people I've come across like you only believe in what they wish to believe.

Furthermore, if your form of a 'stable Afghanistan' is the Afghanistan during the Taliban era, I have nothing more to say to you. Believe in what you wish."

I have no need to further discuss this with you. It will lead to a conversation that will go around in circles. I hope you come to realize soon enough how deluded you truly are. I pity you and the likes of you.

Salam.

the best thing will be to never adress me again.

i dont need pitty from a occupier lover.
deluded? that sounds moronically ironic.

soon enough when you go to Afghansitan and actually talk to people you will realise how ignorant of a tool you are ,let alone going through the same to realise it the hardway.
go now read some more from Weinbaum from CFR to know about Afghanistan.LOL

Case dismissed.

[pashtanajan]

the best thing will be to never adress me again.

i dont need pitty from a occupier lover.
deluded? that sounds moronically ironic.

soon enough when you go to Afghansitan and actually talk to people you will realise how ignorant of a tool you are ,let alone going through the same to realise it the hardway.
go now read some more from Weinbaum from CFR to know about Afghanistan.LOL

Case dismissed.

You seem to like to dismiss non-existent cases. Where's the trial?