Decision on Durand Line Belongs to Afghans, Faizi Says

[BLS_1919v2.0]

I don't know why people are surprised at US's stand considering they have held it for the past 60 years or so.
As Pashtuns, even if it is a minority desire, it is good to keep it. Certain things may not come to fruition now but have benefits later on. Pakhtunkhwa name change and pashto implementation in Khyber-Pashtunkhwa was a very small number....it was almost non-existant. Now it is part of the mainstream. These things take time, and as more the army screws in FATA and PATA, the more realization among the people will come.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Pashtuns are a greedy nation.
It´s sad to admit it but that´s the case.

Let Afghanistan flourish and become economically culturally strong and then see how the "Pathans" will flood the place.

In the 60s and 70s, Pakistanis were flouding Kabul on Independence Day Celebrations not because they liked our independence so much but because there was no cultural equivalent in their coutntry.

Older Afghans tell me how amazed they were when they came and saw what Afghanistan was.

Mostafa,

Salamoona and akthar dhey mubaraksaa

Its exactly as you note. Its not just a Pashtun trait... its a human trait. One cannot even compare America and Pakistan in terms of accomplishment and independence, etc but look at our southern border, specifically the TexMex issue. Folks run guns,goods, and people across that border every day and the Zeta Cartel amongst others dominate it. Despite the deep history and attachment the Mexicans feel toward the southern Texas area that was seized from them by force, even the poorest American born Latino does not want that region to join Mexico - its recent and ancestoral territory. Economics is his biggest motivation.

There are two classes that can lead a revolution/detachment: the masses or the elite. One can only blame either group for human failings. The masses have little time to wear semi-silk turbans and carry the Pashto history janda - many a villager has confused their history to the point where Ahmad Shah and Nadir Qoli are assumed to the same person. They are just living their life trying to get by and out of poverty. In their view, there is no reason to give up the one thing they have, which is relative stability for the sake of idealism. This is a trait that is not unique to any single peoples, Afghan, African, Mexican, Irish, or Scottish. When every belly is full, then people begin to have time to think about their life's meaning. This same phenomena is seen during hard times in developed nations when technical specialities like engineering come to the fore and still command salaries while history majors and english majors are thrown into the cold - like a body in sepsis, the country devotes resources to survival instead of pleasure.

The Irish leaders like Charles Parnell struggled against English Imperialism in their own land. On the verge of independence, they discarded their equivalent of a founding father, Charles Parnell, because a lie was circulated against him as being an adulterer. James Joyce, would, in his Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man lament that "Ireland is the sow that eats her own farrow." He was pointing out that the Irish masses would rather sacrifice their own leading sons than claim their destiny. He refused to understand that the Irish peoples were less concerned with idealism and "Buaidh no bàs" of the their scottish brethren and more concerned about the fact that their potatoes were blackening and they were starving.

Even more complex are tribal relationships. I asked a Wazir elder why, since his forefathers were given citizenship and land by Amanullah himself, do they not seek to reattach themselves to Afghanistan. There have been various threats by the Wazir tribe to leave Pakistan physically and resettle in Birmal and to also secede but the powerful yargu khel have not ever acted. His response was: "we sell nuts and fruits and other various things that find their place in the Pakistani markets... right now our fortunes fall with Pakistan. Perhaps one day if our fortunes fall with Kabul then we would opt for them." Despite Soldat's gripes the Mehsuds are no different.

And I think this is absolutely fair. The FATA tribes in the least have the right to do whatever the heck they please. I for one think its inappropriate to speak on their behalf or for their aspirations or to insult them with epitaphs. They are renowned for their instrasigence and independence, being amongst the few that staged the first insider attacks against the British even when under occupation and vicious aerial bombardment by Churchill and associates.

And Azmal, you're still a mordaar piece of ****, Dokhthar-e-Saleh.

[Shah-i-Kot]

and why would this farsi sh=itts give a damn about Durrand line?

These p-imps want to see Durrand line enforced, and they want to commit genocide on Pashtuns with a fake Kharzai pimp giving public face to it

[Toramana]

Pashtuns are a greedy nation.
It´s sad to admit it but that´s the case.

Let Afghanistan flourish and become economically culturally strong and then see how the "Pathans" will flood the place.

In the 60s and 70s, Pakistanis were flouding Kabul on Independence Day Celebrations not because they liked our independence so much but because there was no cultural equivalent in their coutntry.

Older Afghans tell me how amazed they were when they came and saw what Afghanistan was.

Correction: "Pashtuns from both sides would flock to the Persian Kabul with fundamentally Persian cultural atmosphere and celebrations spurred by a Persianized monarchy because there was no cultural equivalent in their own villages like Jalalabad, Kandahar, Pekhawar,Mardan, etc.."

[MostafaM]

Mostafa,

Salamoona and akthar dhey mubaraksaa

Its exactly as you note. Its not just a Pashtun trait... its a human trait. One cannot even compare America and Pakistan in terms of accomplishment and independence, etc but look at our southern border, specifically the TexMex issue. Folks run guns,goods, and people across that border every day and the Zeta Cartel amongst others dominate it. Despite the deep history and attachment the Mexicans feel toward the southern Texas area that was seized from them by force, even the poorest American born Latino does not want that region to join Mexico - its recent and ancestoral territory. Economics is his biggest motivation.

There are two classes that can lead a revolution/detachment: the masses or the elite. One can only blame either group for human failings. The masses have little time to wear semi-silk turbans and carry the Pashto history janda - many a villager has confused their history to the point where Ahmad Shah and Nadir Qoli are assumed to the same person. They are just living their life trying to get by and out of poverty. In their view, there is no reason to give up the one thing they have, which is relative stability for the sake of idealism. This is a trait that is not unique to any single peoples, Afghan, African, Mexican, Irish, or Scottish. When every belly is full, then people begin to have time to think about their life's meaning. This same phenomena is seen during hard times in developed nations when technical specialities like engineering come to the fore and still command salaries while history majors and english majors are thrown into the cold - like a body in sepsis, the country devotes resources to survival instead of pleasure.

The Irish leaders like Charles Parnell struggled against English Imperialism in their own land. On the verge of independence, they discarded their equivalent of a founding father, Charles Parnell, because a lie was circulated against him as being an adulterer. James Joyce, would, in his Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man lament that "Ireland is the sow that eats her own farrow." He was pointing out that the Irish masses would rather sacrifice their own leading sons than claim their destiny. He refused to understand that the Irish peoples were less concerned with idealism and "Buaidh no bàs" of the their scottish brethren and more concerned about the fact that their potatoes were blackening and they were starving.

Even more complex are tribal relationships. I asked a Wazir elder why, since his forefathers were given citizenship and land by Amanullah himself, do they not seek to reattach themselves to Afghanistan. There have been various threats by the Wazir tribe to leave Pakistan physically and resettle in Birmal and to also secede but the powerful yargu khel have not ever acted. His response was: "we sell nuts and fruits and other various things that find their place in the Pakistani markets... right now our fortunes fall with Pakistan. Perhaps one day if our fortunes fall with Kabul then we would opt for them." Despite Soldat's gripes the Mehsuds are no different.

And I think this is absolutely fair. The FATA tribes in the least have the right to do whatever the heck they please. I for one think its inappropriate to speak on their behalf or for their aspirations or to insult them with epitaphs. They are renowned for their instrasigence and independence, being amongst the few that staged the first insider attacks against the British even when under occupation and vicious aerial bombardment by Churchill and associates.

Walekum Barekzai,

hope all is well and akhtar de sta ham mubarak sha.

I understand your points and they are valid arguements.

But I have to ask one question because you brought up Ireland and it´s struggle for independence.

The Irish people were one of the poorest in Europe and masses of them tried to escape hardship and starvation by resettling in America.
Their struggle against foreign rule and for unification while being on the verge of starvation is to a certain extent a counter-arguement to the economic level of revolutions or disruptions of the political status quo.

I think it has been shown that people struggle when their existence is at risk or when their existence is safe and they struggle for higher goals than survival.

Pashtuns have been held in between of these two states, in a non-equilibrium state of being half-fed.....with their stomachs full enough not to revolt and empty enough not to be able to fight for higher goals.

Since rising the standard of living is a task that will atleast take the of 1-2 generations, worsening the state of Pashtuns is achievable in a shorter period of time through revolt and war and the counter-attacks by oppression by whatever entity that has influence on the Pashtun nation.

So, which way do we wanna go to achieve unity?

The South-Sudan Scenario or the West/East-Germany-Scenario?

[Toramana]

I have one thing to say here. Pashtuns of Pakistan are bound to that country due to their economic interests and may be the influence of Islamist propaganda. Pashtuns of Afghanistan on the other hand are irreversibly enslaven to the idea of Loy Afghanistan with all those minorities and their fancy Central Asia and Persipolis cultures.

[Toramana]

Mostafa,

Salamoona and akthar dhey mubaraksaa

Its exactly as you note. Its not just a Pashtun trait... its a human trait. One cannot even compare America and Pakistan in terms of accomplishment and independence, etc but look at our southern border, specifically the TexMex issue. Folks run guns,goods, and people across that border every day and the Zeta Cartel amongst others dominate it. Despite the deep history and attachment the Mexicans feel toward the southern Texas area that was seized from them by force, even the poorest American born Latino does not want that region to join Mexico - its recent and ancestoral territory. Economics is his biggest motivation.

There are two classes that can lead a revolution/detachment: the masses or the elite. One can only blame either group for human failings. The masses have little time to wear semi-silk turbans and carry the Pashto history janda - many a villager has confused their history to the point where Ahmad Shah and Nadir Qoli are assumed to the same person. They are just living their life trying to get by and out of poverty. In their view, there is no reason to give up the one thing they have, which is relative stability for the sake of idealism. This is a trait that is not unique to any single peoples, Afghan, African, Mexican, Irish, or Scottish. When every belly is full, then people begin to have time to think about their life's meaning. This same phenomena is seen during hard times in developed nations when technical specialities like engineering come to the fore and still command salaries while history majors and english majors are thrown into the cold - like a body in sepsis, the country devotes resources to survival instead of pleasure.

The Irish leaders like Charles Parnell struggled against English Imperialism in their own land. On the verge of independence, they discarded their equivalent of a founding father, Charles Parnell, because a lie was circulated against him as being an adulterer. James Joyce, would, in his Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man lament that "Ireland is the sow that eats her own farrow." He was pointing out that the Irish masses would rather sacrifice their own leading sons than claim their destiny. He refused to understand that the Irish peoples were less concerned with idealism and "Buaidh no bàs" of the their scottish brethren and more concerned about the fact that their potatoes were blackening and they were starving.

Even more complex are tribal relationships. I asked a Wazir elder why, since his forefathers were given citizenship and land by Amanullah himself, do they not seek to reattach themselves to Afghanistan. There have been various threats by the Wazir tribe to leave Pakistan physically and resettle in Birmal and to also secede but the powerful yargu khel have not ever acted. His response was: "we sell nuts and fruits and other various things that find their place in the Pakistani markets... right now our fortunes fall with Pakistan. Perhaps one day if our fortunes fall with Kabul then we would opt for them." Despite Soldat's gripes the Mehsuds are no different.

And I think this is absolutely fair. The FATA tribes in the least have the right to do whatever the heck they please. I for one think its inappropriate to speak on their behalf or for their aspirations or to insult them with epitaphs. They are renowned for their instrasigence and independence, being amongst the few that staged the first insider attacks against the British even when under occupation and vicious aerial bombardment by Churchill and associates.

And Azmal, you're still a mordaar piece of ****, Dokhthar-e-Saleh.

When the grand dream of Islamistan or Akhwanistan that the likes of Hassanul Bina, Mualana Maududi, Mardi-Momin General Zial-Haq conceived of would come true, we would find able "hakiman" to be its health ministers to replace Western sinful medical practices with Tibi-Nabuwi.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Walekum Barekzai,

hope all is well and akhtar de sta ham mubarak sha.

I understand your points and they are valid arguements.

But I have to ask one question because you brought up Ireland and it´s struggle for independence.

The Irish people were one of the poorest in Europe and masses of them tried to escape hardship and starvation by resettling in America.
Their struggle against foreign rule and for unification while being on the verge of starvation is to a certain extent a counter-arguement to the economic level of revolutions or disruptions of the political status quo.

I think it has been shown that people struggle when their existence is at risk or when their existence is safe and they struggle for higher goals than survival.

Pashtuns have been held in between of these two states, in a non-equilibrium state of being half-fed.....with their stomachs full enough not to revolt and empty enough not to be able to fight for higher goals.

Since rising the standard of living is a task that will atleast take the of 1-2 generations, worsening the state of Pashtuns is achievable in a shorter period of time through revolt and war and the counter-attacks by oppression by whatever entity that has influence on the Pashtun nation.

So, which way do we wanna go to achieve unity?

The South-Sudan Scenario or the West/East-Germany-Scenario?

My friend I have no idea. I can admit ignorance on the way forward. I think intermarriage and cultural ties being reestablished, lowering the level of invective, and Afghanistan becoming an autonomous and power economic driver would be practical. Even then, one wonders whether the reversal of the gradient, i.e. Peshawaris coming to Kabul for economics needs), would have a similar outcome. That is, look at the situation when Afghan refugees went to Peshawar (more so than Quetta), there were enclaves, camps, and limited intermarriage between the refugees and locals despite the common heritage... in fact there was a level of disdain and economic competition. I predict that a few intermarriages and cultural ties would be made, but the rest of the time folks from KP proper would keep to their own and vice versa.

I was very much like you about a decade ago. I used to be so passionate about this issue. I was so bad about it that whether it was mishr, kishr, khpaal, predaay, nar/shezja, everyone went away insulted. I lost many a friend from Mardan over my invective and I would be very direct and tell them that the difference between Afghanistan proper and FATA people and Peshawar was that the former never bowed and the latter bent over. I would refuse to use the terms jee etc and would teach the kids to not say it and the mothers would send me their grievances over my lack of izaat. The end result? Not a dam-n bit of progress. Just a lot of heart ache and frustration. I probably picked a lot of this up from my own father whose favorite comment was to say that he wished A) Pakistan was denuclearized and B) that one of their own payloads would be detonated onto it.

With time, and travel from one end of the watan (the Iran/Afghanistan/Pakistan border through Urzugan, Kabul amd beyond, a smart fellow like you will begin to see the very deep problems on both sides of the border. There was not a place that i went where I did not have to pay a police man off. There was not a place I ventured to where people thought of their fellow villagers well-being above their family's much less the concept of being a watandaar or even having faith in the local state. Contrast this with the joy Americans feel and the pride they feel for their local state. A New Yorker will brag about how great his area is and a Nashvillian will honor Tennessee to his utmost.

The Irish example, to me at least, shows the utter failure of a people to adhere to the very true and honest nationalism of Parnell. Explain some more to me what you mean about the Irish example showing the contrary.

Best thing Mostafa, is to finish your postdoctorate, get married, be good to your wife and kids, love your neighbors, teach in Kabul on sojourn from time to time and maybe Kandahar, hate all politicians equally, eat a balanced meal, enjoy nature, wear a spin patkaay and paryaan/tombaan and then just age and become a nice spin zhira with a less heavy heart. Be very active in your field and unite scientists in your specialty across the line and forge long lasting friendships based on humanity. Enjoy time with your kids when they come.

Look at all the revolutionaries Mostafa... Che, Malcolm, other nameless ones... they all die young and their children grow up fatherless.

There are forces bigger than us now battling over the watan (Mullah Omar and Petreus are only symbols from behind rest a whole host of other powerful elements) and if you establish your own economic success you can, at least, always tell the truth and never have to be a part of that filth that only corrupts and fattens the belly to the point of midline obesity.

Never let your rational and evidence based engineering logic be superseded by economic necessity and you will have made a large dent already.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

When the grand dream of Islamistan or Akhwanistan that the likes of Hassanul Bina, Mualana Maududi, Mardi-Momin General Zial-Haq conceived of would come true, we would find able "hakiman" to be its health ministers to replace Western sinful medical practices with Tibi-Nabuwi.

Where are the Muslims, much less Islamistan? I think you would find much less of a problem with Tibi then with the spin thaar tawizoona and choof damoona of the village Pir and Babo my friend. One of the latter almost killed me when I was struck with malaria as a youth! Thus far, the miswaak has not done much damage to me.

[Shahidulla]

Correction: "Pashtuns from both sides would flock to the Persian Kabul with fundamentally Persian cultural atmosphere and celebrations spurred by a Persianized monarchy because there was no cultural equivalent in their own villages like Jalalabad, Kandahar, Pekhawar,Mardan, etc.."

1 word: BULL****

[Khostai]

Correction: "Pashtuns from both sides would flock to the Persian Kabul with fundamentally Persian cultural atmosphere and celebrations spurred by a Persianized monarchy because there was no cultural equivalent in their own villages like Jalalabad, Kandahar, Pekhawar,Mardan, etc.."

So Jalalabad, Kandahar and Pekhawar are villages now -_-,
even in those time they were considered cities. Seems you don't know what you talking about.

[khushal]

I don't know why people are surprised at US's stand considering they have held it for the past 60 years or so.
As Pashtuns, even if it is a minority desire, it is good to keep it. Certain things may not come to fruition now but have benefits later on. Pakhtunkhwa name change and pashto implementation in Khyber-Pashtunkhwa was a very small number....it was almost non-existant. Now it is part of the mainstream. These things take time, and as more the army screws in FATA and PATA, the more realization among the people will come.

KP pashtuns use the "we want to join Afghanistan" or "Afghansitan is our motherland" rhetoric as leverage against panjabis to have some influence in Pakistan. If they really wanted to unite or leave the Pakistani Union, they could do it in one day.