Pashtun Taliban and its allies are dedicated, undefeated warriors who fight where the

[Shah-i-Kot]

http://hamsayeh.net/archive/897-grav...f-empires.html

Pashtun Taliban and its allies are dedicated, undefeated warriors who fight where they live, and have all the time in the world.

By Eric Margolis July 02, 2011 "Information Clearing House"

In his majestic poem "Recessional," Rudyard Kipling was writing of the fading British Empire, but his words are as vivid and pertinent today as a century ago:

Far-called our navies melt away –
On dune and headland sinks the fire –
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!

The objective of war is to achieve political objectives, not to kill enemies.

Politically, the US has achieved nothing in Afghanistan after ten years of desultory, destruction, and titanic expenditure.

So in this sense, the United States has already lost the Afghan conflict, its longest war. Militarily its forces have been stalemated, meaning that it has lost the all-important military initiative and is now on the strategic defensive. We have seen this before – in Vietnam.

Once more, Afghanistan fulfills its grim title as "graveyard of empires."

The US has failed to install an obedient regime in Kabul that controls Afghanistan. It has made bitter foes of the nation’s Pashtun majority, and, in pursuing this war, gravely undermined Pakistan. Claims that US forces were only in Afghanistan to hunt the late Osama bin Laden were widely disbelieved.

Last Wednesday, President Barack Obama bowed to public opinion, approaching elections, military reality and financial woes by announcing he would withdraw a third of the 100,000 US troops from Afghanistan by the end of next summer. Pentagon brass growled open opposition. Obama should have smacked them down, but did not, adding to the growing belief that he is weak and overawed by the military chiefs.

US allies France and Germany announced similar troops reductions. All foreign troops are supposed to quit Afghanistan by the end of 2014.

This staggered withdrawal will take the US garrison roughly back to the size it was before President Obama sent 30,000 reinforcements to Afghanistan. This means enough soldiers to hold the main urban centers and connecting roads, but not enough to defeat Taliban guerillas in the field, or to block the Afghan-Pakistan border.

Washington currently spends at least $10 billion monthly on the Afghan war, not counting "black" payments, CIA and NSA operations. The US has poured $18.8 billion in development aid into Afghanistan since 2001 with nothing to show for the effort. Pakistan has been given $20 billion to support the Afghan War. Each US soldier in Afghanistan costs $1 million per annum, not counting full support costs.

None of these costs are covered by taxes; all are piled onto the gargantuan national debt.

The US deficit is heading over $1.4 trillion. The national debt, when unfunded pensions and benefits are added, is likely $100 trillion, according to the chief of PIMCO, the world’s largest bond trader. This means America, top-heavy with unsustainable debt, risks capsizing financially.

Forty-four million Americans now receive food stamps; the national infrastructure of roads, airports, bridges and schools is crumbling from neglect. Unemployment, officially at 9.5%, is probably closer to 20%.

The cry is being heard: "Rebuild America, not Afghanistan."

In spite of intense pro-war propaganda, over half of Americans now oppose the Afghan War. Even US-installed Afghan president Hamid Karzai calls it, "ineffective, apart from causing civilian casualties."

So will the US really pull out of Afghanistan? That remains to be seen. There are many contradictory signs.

Mid-level talks between the US and Taliban have been conducted for over a year. Washington’s plan was to try to split Taliban through such talks.

US Afghan supremo Gen. David Petraeus tried to buy off Afghan resistance in the same manner he had bribed Iraq’s Sunni tribes into quiescence. This gambit did not work with Taliban’s hardened warriors, for whom honor holds as much value as money.

The US will probably keep a sizeable number of its remaining 66,000 soldiers in Afghanistan after 2014, rebranding them training troops. The huge US bases at Kandahar and Bagram will be retained as permanent US fortified enclaves.

Billions more will be spent on the Afghan government army and police. They have so far proved ineffective because most are composed of Tajik and Uzbek mercenaries who are hated and distrusted by the Pashtun.

A similar process is underway in Iraq where "withdrawal" means keeping combat brigades in Iraq, renamed "training units" and "counter-terrorism units," thousands of mercenaries, and mobile US combat forces in neighboring Kuwait and the Gulf.

New US embassies in Baghdad and Kabul – huge, fortified complexes with their own mercenary combat forces – will be the world’s biggest. Kabul will have a staff of 1,000 US personnel. Bin Laden called them "crusader fortresses." Fortified US consulates are under construction in other parts of Afghanistan.

In addition, the US will still arm and finance allied Tajik and Uzbek militias in Afghanistan, and CIA-run mercenary forces. Financing Pakistan’s US-backed regimes and Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan must also continue at around $3 billion yearly. What political concessions the US is giving Moscow to allow passage of war supplies through its territory remains a secret.

The US appears to be going and staying at the same time. By contrast, Taliban’s position is clear and simple: it will continue fighting until all foreign troops are withdrawn. US special forces, drones and hit squads have been unable to assassinate enough Taliban commanders to make the mujahidin stop fighting.

Americans never study history, not even their own. We don’t recall founding father, the great Benjamin Franklin, who said, "there is no good war, and no bad peace." Or that the Pashtun Taliban and its allies are dedicated, undefeated warriors who fight where they live, and have all the time in the world.

I’ve been in combat with Pashtun fighters and remain in awe of their courage and love of combat. The Pashtun mujahidin will keep fighting as long as their ammunition lasts.

America, for all its B-1 heavy bombers, strike fighters, missiles, helicopter gunships and drones, armor, super electronics, spies in the sky and all the other high tech weapons of modern war has failed to defeat some 30,000 tribal fighters armed with nothing more than light weapons and legendary valor.

The US has lost the political war in Afghanistan. It may linger there, but it cannot win.

[SiiNii]

Wow I forgot all about Margolis, I used to read his columns during the early part of the Iraq war. Margolis himself fought in Vietnam (a similar conflict) I've heard, but haven't confirmed.

[Catya Sher]

I am returning to read this later -
of all the articles from normal media posted here,
this looks like it is one of the few worthwhile.

Eric Margolis, whose article "Defeated In Afghanistan?
Blame Pakistan" I posted a couple years ago,
is a fairly objective writer. Thank God there are a few
out there who can easily see through all the garbage of
media lies.

Does he still have a column in a Canadian paper ?
I think his website is maybe the place to look occasionally.

[Soldat_Amir]

Here we go again, the wrath of the Western delusionists

Afghanistan is not a graveyard for empires.....that is a farce and lie

Arabs took over it, Greeks did, Pakistan did, ISI did, Durranis did, Mullah Omars did

etc etc etc...Taliban were thrown out in two weeks by the US army

had it not been for the geniva convention or the concept of human rights, the US army would have flatten Afghanistan into a smooth plain desert!

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Here we go again, the wrath of the Western delusionists

Afghanistan is not a graveyard for empires.....that is a farce and lie

Arabs took over it, Greeks did, Pakistan did, ISI did, Durranis did, Mullah Omars did

etc etc etc...Taliban were thrown out in two weeks by the US army

had it not been for the geniva convention or the concept of human rights, the US army would have flatten Afghanistan into a smooth plain desert!

Read a history book. Its never been the issue of an "undefeated" Afghanistan. Its been the factor of trying to hold onto and socially re-engineer an ethnically diverse and tribally federated society that causes "defeat."

The better term for the Afghans is not "undefeated" but rather, "indefatigable."

The same went for Vietnam. The Americans won every battle and disproportionally killed thousands of Vietnamese for every 1 US soldier. It was war fatigue that caused their flight from Vietnam. An outgunned peoples basically understood that they did not have much to lose.

The fact that empires have to go through potentially hostile areas and spend tons of money to enter and leave a land locked country is what caused them to fatigue their way out of Afghanistan.

So in reality, it is a graveyard of empires because in their imperial hubris, multiple powers have sought to control this strategically important piece of land and, while chasing the holy grail, they spread themselves economically thin and attempted to change a people without considering the fact that it took approximately 1 millenia to change the culture of Europe, much less that of the Pashtuns.

Read Shakespeare's own work. In the famous Romeo and Juliet contact between the sexes is not so easily done, girls are kept behind high walls, and clans kill eachother for badal. Girls were promised to men of nobility etc. It took hundreds of years to transition from that to the free love society of the modern era.

Only fools think that they can cheaply rebuild a society from the ground up in 10 years. And only massive fools would think that a super power that has a history of seeking for its own gain and changing the landscape to suit its whims will suddenly become a benevolent power that will allow Pashtuns to be all the same time: Pashtuns true to their codes and culture + economic giants of central asia + observant Muslims.

Also, the US cannot and will not flatten Afghanistan because its whole war premise is predicated on being the intellectual empire of modernity, seeking to democratize the world. Their whole moral imperitive that they utilize to drive the war rests on the idea of 1) Revenge against those that attacked us 2) Freeing the women of the mid east and Africa and 3) nation building.

Prominent analysts have said that such a venture is idiotic as it Americas adversaries are seeking to Brzenzski her into multple conflicts. The minute they decide to "flatten" places their moral imperitive will dissappear and the support for aggressive action overseas will evaporate.

She also cannot simply rock the boat and create turmoil and conflict in world markets in regions that are economically necessary coronary arteries of the heart that is the American economy.

The stark realities are that She faces the choices the founding fathers warned about, either she must become the world's dictatoress or she must protect her real interests which do not revolve around whether girls in Herat can go to school or not.

[MostafaM]

Abdali is right.

Defeat is not solely confined to the military perspective of conflicts.

You are defeated when you accept defeat, simple as that.

And Afghans have never accepted defeat even when 3 divisions of airborne Russian soldiers flattened an area and made all the people flee except for some fighters who remained.

Defiance to the last breath is what we Afghans talk about.
Not even with 1000 nuklear warheads you can change people´s way of life.
You can kill them but you can´t defeat them.

[Afghanistan2010]

It is proven through out the history...that Afghans as such remained undefeated.

[Catya Sher]

God Willing, I hope that the Afghans will come through this latest disaster
in a stronger and more cohesive situation than ever before.

To get foreigners OUT of their country and have that
most SCARCE commodity of all during so many decades now :
PEACE< QUIET < LACK OF DISTURBANCE from others -
so a farmer can go back to growing those great Jade-green Raisins
for which Afghanistan is so famous, pomegranates and other
healthy good to rejuvenate an entire nation.

[Catya Sher]

Barakzai's comment was excellent.

Why doesn't someone like him take the task
of writing to Eric Margolis and
telling him some of this ?

It would encourage Mr Margolis to keep writing
in this TRUTHFUL VEIN =
it is SO rare among Western journalists, like
the pearl of great price...

So he may need some good feedback from people HERE.

He certainly WON'T get any praise from any Western outlet,
we all know that.

Journalists are like anyone else : they need some - even a tiny bit -
of encouragement to keep researching and writing BALANCED ACCOUNTS>

Barakzai is articulate and can present much material very well
in a way easily grasped by a North American mentality.

If he has time, I hope he would consider writing a nice
letter to Eric M. - his website must have a contact email.

How about the task ? It would really bring better results
than much else.

[randolph85]

foreigners are only one part of the problem, the other is afghans themselves.

[Azmal]

Read a history book. Its never been the issue of an "undefeated" Afghanistan. Its been the factor of trying to hold onto and socially re-engineer an ethnically diverse and tribally federated society that causes "defeat."

The better term for the Afghans is not "undefeated" but rather, "indefatigable."

The same went for Vietnam. The Americans won every battle and disproportionally killed thousands of Vietnamese for every 1 US soldier. It was war fatigue that caused their flight from Vietnam. An outgunned peoples basically understood that they did not have much to lose.

The fact that empires have to go through potentially hostile areas and spend tons of money to enter and leave a land locked country is what caused them to fatigue their way out of Afghanistan.

So in reality, it is a graveyard of empires because in their imperial hubris, multiple powers have sought to control this strategically important piece of land and, while chasing the holy grail, they spread themselves economically thin and attempted to change a people without considering the fact that it took approximately 1 millenia to change the culture of Europe, much less that of the Pashtuns.

Read Shakespeare's own work. In the famous Romeo and Juliet contact between the sexes is not so easily done, girls are kept behind high walls, and clans kill eachother for badal. Girls were promised to men of nobility etc. It took hundreds of years to transition from that to the free love society of the modern era.

Only fools think that they can cheaply rebuild a society from the ground up in 10 years. And only massive fools would think that a super power that has a history of seeking for its own gain and changing the landscape to suit its whims will suddenly become a benevolent power that will allow Pashtuns to be all the same time: Pashtuns true to their codes and culture + economic giants of central asia + observant Muslims.

Also, the US cannot and will not flatten Afghanistan because its whole war premise is predicated on being the intellectual empire of modernity, seeking to democratize the world. Their whole moral imperitive that they utilize to drive the war rests on the idea of 1) Revenge against those that attacked us 2) Freeing the women of the mid east and Africa and 3) nation building.

Prominent analysts have said that such a venture is idiotic as it Americas adversaries are seeking to Brzenzski her into multple conflicts. The minute they decide to "flatten" places their moral imperitive will dissappear and the support for aggressive action overseas will evaporate.

She also cannot simply rock the boat and create turmoil and conflict in world markets in regions that are economically necessary coronary arteries of the heart that is the American economy.

The stark realities are that She faces the choices the founding fathers warned about, either she must become the world's dictatoress or she must protect her real interests which do not revolve around whether girls in Herat can go to school or not.

Dear Mule and Shah I kot…what’s this recycling of 2011-- Commie Margolis hot airs? Do I need to remind you guys that even a failed Commie like comrade Najib had proven Margolis fanciful logic wrong when he stayed in power until the Roskies orchestrated Coup d’état against him?… so even if US completely withdraw and only continue financial support…Next Afghanistan president will stay on power… But wait…lets THINK about it for a minute…the Americans have effectively secured themselves a deal whereby they can stay on in Afghanistan indefinitely—strategic patch- while reducing their overall troops number. The military bases they’ve been developing for themselves will be easily defendable, for they are largely impenetrable. Some estimate that they may even withstand a nuclear holocaust. In other words, Afghans can go on fighting one another for another century, but the American bases may remain. This serves their strategic use of Afghanistan’s location for their own regional benefits indefinitely. It is after all the dawn of the Asian century that will continue to see the concentration of the world’s wealth shift eastwards, while Europe perhaps withers to irrelevance. Surely the Americans just want to make sure they remain an important player for a very long time to come, don’t you think? Tch tch tch …you’re moving ahead of yourself again mule…I’m a little disappointed in your latest pattern of idiocy.

Now for Afghans – unless we belt up - our regional enemies will keep trying to get the Americans out and if only through their wild proxies at great cost to innocent lives. However, the Americans will remain and if god forbids violence does escalate to 1990’s proportions, any winner from that war would be forced to work out a deal with the US, just as pragmatic Afghan leaders with real constituencies behind them had to make do with the ever-present British in India. For all genuine Afghan nationalists out there, a strategic direction for them ought to be apparent by now. For Pakistani or Iranian proxies out there, I believe that even if they were to transform themselves into an army for the advocacy of Christianity in Afghanistan, they will NEVER be leaders as there will always be Afghans and Americans opposing them.

...by the way...could you try and tone down on the drama you concoct with Pakistan2010 and this other Shah I Kot imbecile here? We already know you for the smelly brown creatures you restlessly work for, so why all the theatrics?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Dear Mule and Shah I kot…what’s this recycling of 2011-- Commie Margolis hot airs? Do I need to remind you guys that even a failed Commie like comrade Najib had proven Margolis fanciful logic wrong when he stayed in power until the Roskies orchestrated Coup d’état against him?… so even if US completely withdraw and only continue financial support…Next Afghanistan president will stay on power… But wait…lets THINK about it for a minute…the Americans have effectively secured themselves a deal whereby they can stay on in Afghanistan indefinitely—strategic patch- while reducing their overall troops number. The military bases they’ve been developing for themselves will be easily defendable, for they are largely impenetrable. Some estimate that they may even withstand a nuclear holocaust. In other words, Afghans can go on fighting one another for another century, but the American bases may remain. This serves their strategic use of Afghanistan’s location for their own regional benefits indefinitely. It is after all the dawn of the Asian century that will continue to see the concentration of the world’s wealth shift eastwards, while Europe perhaps withers to irrelevance. Surely the Americans just want to make sure they remain an important player for a very long time to come, don’t you think? Tch tch tch …you’re moving ahead of yourself again mule…I’m a little disappointed in your latest pattern of idiocy.

Now for Afghans – unless we belt up - our regional enemies will keep trying to get the Americans out and if only through their wild proxies at great cost to innocent lives. However, the Americans will remain and if god forbids violence does escalate to 1990’s proportions, any winner from that war would be forced to work out a deal with the US, just as pragmatic Afghan leaders with real constituencies behind them had to make do with the ever-present British in India. For all genuine Afghan nationalists out there, a strategic direction for them ought to be apparent by now. For Pakistani or Iranian proxies out there, I believe that even if they were to transform themselves into an army for the advocacy of Christianity in Afghanistan, they will NEVER be leaders as there will always be Afghans and Americans opposing them.

...by the way...could you try and tone down on the drama you concoct with Pakistan2010 and this other Shah I Kot imbecile here? We already know you for the smelly brown creatures you restlessly work for, so why all the theatrics?

Loollll Silly Fa-got, didn't I tell you before? Wapas raghley che bya darla noraay lathaay darkama speeya? (by the way, its rather great how Graveyard caught your inability to speak Pashto when you called that person a "spaag."

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthr...ighlight=spaag

You magically reappear when your wh-ore master Saleh is mentioned or when your "farsibaan" dominance becomes threatened. We all know who you are.

Di-cks like the one your invented "persian" grandmothers received from the "Iron" Amir are for chicks not for dudes like you dancing bazi for your Iranian and formerly Russian masters looooolll.

Ready to identify your invented grandmother you piece of persian sh-it? Here is the list:

"Amir 'Abdu'l Rahman Khan, Amir of the God granted Kingdom of Afghanistan, GCB (c 29.12.1893), GCSI (11.4.1885). b. at Kabul, 1844, eldest son of H.H. Amir al-Mumenin, Amir Muhammad Afzal Khan, Amir of Afghanistan, educ. privately at Balkh. Proclaimed at Charikar, 20th July 1880. Installed at Kabul, 11th August 1880. Accepted the British protectorate c1890. Abolished slavery throughout his realm in 1895. Invested with the title of Zia ul-millat wa ud-din, 24th August 1896. m. (first) Maryam Begum, Bobo Jahan-i-Qal'a-i-Hazara (d.s.p.), daughter of Sardar Faqir Muhammad Khan, a Barakzai. m. (second) Bibi Walida Jahan (d. March 1915), daughter of Mir Jahandar Shah, Uzbek Mir of Badarkhshan. m. (third) ca. 1865, a daughter of H.H. Amir ul-Muminim Sayyid Amir Muzaffar ud-din 'Abdul Khan Bahadur Sultan, Amir of Bokhara. m. (fourth) 1875, after the birth of her sons, Asal Begum, previously Gulraz Bibi, a former slave-girl from Wakhan and Samarkand. m. (fifth) at Kabul, 22nd November 1880, Bibi Halima, Bobo Jahan-i-Jaghadar Begum (d. at Kabul, 1925), his Chief wife, daughter of Sayyid Mir Atiqu'llah Khan, by his wife, Shams-i-Jahan Begum, eldest daughter of H.H. Amir al-Mumenin, Amir-i-Kabir, Amir Dost Muhammad Khan, Amir of Afghanistan. m. (sixth) before 1882, a daughter of Mir Hakim Khan, Nizam ud-Daula, Mir of Shibarghan. m. (seventh) Safura Begum [Bibi Staro], a Chitrali lady. m. (eighth) Padshah Begum, daughter of a Mazari Sayyid from Balkh. m. (ninth) Bibi Gulraz II, a Kohlabi consort from Gulistani. m. (tenth) Bibi Zahara, a Shighani consort. m. (eleventh) Sajida Begum (d.s.p.), eldest daughter of Mir Muhammad 'Ali Khan Yaftali, of Badakhshan. m. (twelfth) a Kohlabi consort. m. (thirteenth) Bibi Nekadam (d. ca. 1886), a Chitrali consort. m. (thirteenth) a daughter of Muhammad Husain Khan Ming, of Maimana. He d. at Bagh-i-Bala, Kabul, 1st October 1901 (bur. Boston Sarai Mausoleum), having had issue, twelve sons and four daughters:

Oh, let us not forget your other nonexistent grandmother:

"Sardar Zakaria Khan, twenty-first son of Sardar Sultan Muhammad Khan Telai, by a slave - see Afghanistan (Telai). m. (first) Shams-i-Jahan Begum, daughter of Sardar Muhammad Akram Khan. m. (second) Hajira Begum, daughter of Nawab Asadu'llah Khan. m. (third)Bibi Haji Sanaubar, a Laghmani. m. (fourth) a Safi Tagao m. (a) Bibi Gulchara, a Hazari consort. m. (b) Bibi Pari, a Laghmani consort. m. (c) a Laghmani wife. m. (d) Bibi Gulshan, a Hazari consort. He had issue, ten sons and nine daughters: "

http://www.royalark.net/Afghanistan/zikria.htm

Always remember Farsibaan,

Raza pa Pashto key rasaraa yaw dwa drey khabaraay rawachawaa.

I am going to giving you another beat down persian slave.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Dear Mule and Shah I kot…what’s this recycling of 2011-- Commie Margolis hot airs? Do I need to remind you guys that even a failed Commie like comrade Najib had proven Margolis fanciful logic wrong when he stayed in power until the Roskies orchestrated Coup d’état against him?… so even if US completely withdraw and only continue financial support…Next Afghanistan president will stay on power… But wait…lets THINK about it for a minute…the Americans have effectively secured themselves a deal whereby they can stay on in Afghanistan indefinitely—strategic patch- while reducing their overall troops number. The military bases they’ve been developing for themselves will be easily defendable, for they are largely impenetrable. Some estimate that they may even withstand a nuclear holocaust. In other words, Afghans can go on fighting one another for another century, but the American bases may remain. This serves their strategic use of Afghanistan’s location for their own regional benefits indefinitely. It is after all the dawn of the Asian century that will continue to see the concentration of the world’s wealth shift eastwards, while Europe perhaps withers to irrelevance. Surely the Americans just want to make sure they remain an important player for a very long time to come, don’t you think? Tch tch tch …you’re moving ahead of yourself again mule…I’m a little disappointed in your latest pattern of idiocy.

Now for Afghans – unless we belt up - our regional enemies will keep trying to get the Americans out and if only through their wild proxies at great cost to innocent lives. However, the Americans will remain and if god forbids violence does escalate to 1990’s proportions, any winner from that war would be forced to work out a deal with the US, just as pragmatic Afghan leaders with real constituencies behind them had to make do with the ever-present British in India. For all genuine Afghan nationalists out there, a strategic direction for them ought to be apparent by now. For Pakistani or Iranian proxies out there, I believe that even if they were to transform themselves into an army for the advocacy of Christianity in Afghanistan, they will NEVER be leaders as there will always be Afghans and Americans opposing them.

...by the way...could you try and tone down on the drama you concoct with Pakistan2010 and this other Shah I Kot imbecile here? We already know you for the smelly brown creatures you restlessly work for, so why all the theatrics?

Talk some more da khaar bacheeya; guroo che thoora dhey theraa da ka da farsibaan sar deh thash bus na daq deh. LOOOLLL. Like always you'll start it and I will finish it... just as the Lahori slave got finished off by Telai.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Dear Mule and Shah I kot…what’s this recycling of 2011-- Commie Margolis hot airs? Do I need to remind you guys that even a failed Commie like comrade Najib had proven Margolis fanciful logic wrong when he stayed in power until the Roskies orchestrated Coup d’état against him?… so even if US completely withdraw and only continue financial support…Next Afghanistan president will stay on power… But wait…lets THINK about it for a minute…the Americans have effectively secured themselves a deal whereby they can stay on in Afghanistan indefinitely—strategic patch- while reducing their overall troops number. The military bases they’ve been developing for themselves will be easily defendable, for they are largely impenetrable. Some estimate that they may even withstand a nuclear holocaust. In other words, Afghans can go on fighting one another for another century, but the American bases may remain. This serves their strategic use of Afghanistan’s location for their own regional benefits indefinitely. It is after all the dawn of the Asian century that will continue to see the concentration of the world’s wealth shift eastwards, while Europe perhaps withers to irrelevance. Surely the Americans just want to make sure they remain an important player for a very long time to come, don’t you think? Tch tch tch …you’re moving ahead of yourself again mule…I’m a little disappointed in your latest pattern of idiocy.

Now for Afghans – unless we belt up - our regional enemies will keep trying to get the Americans out and if only through their wild proxies at great cost to innocent lives. However, the Americans will remain and if god forbids violence does escalate to 1990’s proportions, any winner from that war would be forced to work out a deal with the US, just as pragmatic Afghan leaders with real constituencies behind them had to make do with the ever-present British in India. For all genuine Afghan nationalists out there, a strategic direction for them ought to be apparent by now. For Pakistani or Iranian proxies out there, I believe that even if they were to transform themselves into an army for the advocacy of Christianity in Afghanistan, they will NEVER be leaders as there will always be Afghans and Americans opposing them.

...by the way...could you try and tone down on the drama you concoct with Pakistan2010 and this other Shah I Kot imbecile here? We already know you for the smelly brown creatures you restlessly work for, so why all the theatrics?

And even more, your pea sized persian-mongol mongrel brain has little grasp over history. The same rhetoric was being used in Kissinger's era by Kissinger himself after he opened up China. Dhiem offered them strategic bases for time immemorial. Quit opening your legs for your new master *****. Sit down and shut up and let the real men talk for a change. Go back to doing what you do best, which is being the best dancing wh-ore around.

[SiiNii]

... The military bases they’ve been developing for themselves will be easily defendable, for they are largely impenetrable. Some estimate that they may even withstand a nuclear holocaust. ...

Have you ever been on a FOB? Where are you getting this information?!