An informative article on the Turmoil.

[khushal]

there was a golden age in islam where intelligent thinking was done. why has that not been handed down through the eras, so that you can't blame lack of intelligence
and lack of knowledge of their own religion, on people who behave badly?
why do many muslim countries, end up being run by obnoxious dictators and armies?

if the response is natural, then the cause of the response must be natural too, going by your logic.

the dictators are foreign imposed and supported. the rebellion agaisnt the dictators is natural.

[faye]

ah, the usual excuse.
the dictators are muslim in a muslim country, they take on the role and are protected by the army of the country, the police of that country are from that country. the dictator has a choice of how he treats his people.
who is protecting assad and slaughtering their own muslim countrymen, women and children?

so, was it also natural for the dictators to be supposedly imposed and supported by your country?

[khushal]

Those dictators and governmnet sysytems are left over from the colonial era.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

why did we allow them to impose that on us? why didn't we pay attention to what Islam taught about education and development so that none of them could have colonized us in the first place?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

The reactions are natural to the interference

that's a red herring; we ultimately are the primary reason wer'e destitute today; imperialism was only a symptom of our own illnesses

[faye]

Those dictators and governmnet sysytems are left over from the colonial era.

so, the division of muslims, as shia and sunni is 'natural', or you want to blame the west for that too? the downfall of the golden age of islam, is 'natural', or did america do that?
the colonial era, is 'natural'. the invasion of afghanistan is 'natural'. that is your theory of reality, no?

[Afghanistan2010]

No its not natural...it is as Allah (the most high) have predestinated for us,and the Prophet (pbuh) already told us in a lenghty sad hadith.

The Messenger of Allah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam said,

"Prophethood (meaning himself) will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain, then Allah will raise it up wherever he wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood remaining with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, He will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a reign of violently oppressive [The reign of Muslim kings who are partially unjust] rule and it will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, there will be a reign of tyrannical rule and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, Allah will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Then, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood." Then Hudhaifah said, "The Prophet stopped speaking." [As-Silsilah As-Sahihah, vol. 1, no. 5]


Al Albani classified it as Sahih


And the scholars have argued that the time of fitnah and tyrannical rule is that of today.

[faye]

so that is why you don't need to use your brain and try to make improvements. it is all predestined and one just sits back and does nothing to make life better, on this beautiful earth.,
seems silly to have then given humans free will.

[khushal]

the interference is driven by greed and is self destructive and the response to it is natural.

[faye]

so is this self destructive interference, driven by greed, natural?
according to 2010 it is all predestined, so is god responsible for creating so much negativity or just 'nature'?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

being invaded by greedy and self destructive interference is natural reaction when people are diverted by worldliness and not focused on strengthening themselves through development, education and so on.

[Afghanistan2010]

so that is why you don't need to use your brain and try to make improvements. it is all predestined and one just sits back and does nothing to make life better, on this beautiful earth.,
seems silly to have then given humans free will.

wrong again,

we hasten therefore to good,because that which is predestined for you will feel easy for you to achive....whether the whole world is for or against you,nothing will hit you what is not predestined for you and you won't escape anything that is predestined for you.

the Prophet (pbuh) was asked about the destiny by his beloved companions (rad) , if everything is predestined should be do good deeds,he (may Allah have peace and blessings upon him ) replied,no one knows his destiny,so hasten towards good until you die.

sahih hadith.

[fzpz]

A brief resurfacing.

We see a set of excellent interviews at Al Jazeera. The most impressive speaker in this forum is Yale prof Dr. Hillary Mann Leverett, though Muslim professor Jon Brown of Georgetown, and Mr. Greenwald do a good job as well.

I think Dr. Mann Leverett's emphasis on how the super powers have a set of hand picked emigre/expatriots who they flout as the saviours of the target nations (e.g. Cuban emigre elites from Batista's era) but who are completely out of touch with the rural masses completely explains the miserable failures of Mr Karzai and Mr. Zardari as well. Her most important statement starts at 19 minutes and 17 seconds.

Those who are obsessing about how the Egyptian on the street is ignoring the ayaah about leaving a gathering in which Islam is derided as a pacifist show of protest, or trying to educate "the little brown brothers abroad" about how Muhammad (S) reacted in Taif are missing the mark. I find it rather sad that it takes Mr. Greenwald to dissect cause and effect when we should already be aware that these going ons have little to do with religion, but much to do with religion being the vehicle of political objectives.

John Brown's discussion of the court case and the burning crosses is pretty informative as well.

Enjoy.

And back to the grind.

I'm always a glass half-full type of guy. The one thing the senseless violence has done is spur discussion of the root causes of the issues faced by both the West and the Muslim world. This guy sums it up beautifully:

Roots of east-west conflict — B Z Khasru
It is freedom of expression when it comes to insulting Islam’s Prophet (PBUH) or holy book, but it is a hate crime when someone challenges the Holocaust

Yet another denigration of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) in the name of freedom of expression has been attempted. Yet another violent outburst in the Arab world has taken place. More deaths and destruction. When can we expect this to end?

Not until the west comes to its senses. Not until the licence Dante used to burn Mohammad (PBUH) in hell is abrogated and no one else is allowed to carry on the legacy of the prejudiced Italian mastermind. And, not until the Muslims get a spot under the sun.

No doubt, when Muslim masses go berserk, violently protesting insult to Islam, they put on display their base instincts and the shallowness of their intellectual side. Their unscrupulous politicians take advantage of this human folly towards achieving their own ends. Ordinary folks in the Islamic world — as well as in many other parts of the globe — often resort to violence in dealing with ultra-sensitive political and religious issues. This happens mainly because they do not think their rulers will take the right steps to tackle them. They perceive their leaders as ineffective and western puppets. Presidents Asif Zardari of Pakistan and Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan perfectly fit the bill. This chronic frustration provokes angry citizens to take matters into their own hands. In Afghanistan, the hated Taliban are returning to power; in Pakistan, anti-American sentiment is at an all-time high, in part thanks to US drone attacks, and in Libya, well, the extremists are already in power.

The US becomes a natural target as the world’s only superpower. However, some of its foreign policy blunders hurt this mighty nation. The Israeli-Palestinian saga has been one. This single issue has caused a rift between the US and the Muslim world as deep as the Grand Canyon, an outcome predicted by some world leaders before Israel’s creation. Pakistan’s founder, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, cautioned President Harry Truman in 1948 against dividing Palestine. Truman ignored him, citing domestic concerns. Anti-US attitudes in the Muslim world may subside once this Arab-Israeli dispute is resolved, although the scar will never disappear from Muslim minds.

But some Jews and westerners make an already bad situation worse, especially folks like filmmakers Theo Van Gogh, a Dutchman, and Sam Bacile, an Israeli-American. Bacile reportedly made the anti-Mohammad (PBUH) movie, Innocence of Muslims, provoking attacks on US embassies in Egypt, Libya and Yemen this week and costing the lives of US diplomats. This is merely a manifestation of an age-old conflict between Islam and the west. In a broader sense, the problem is not just between Muslim and western nations. It is an east-west schism, dating to the Greek-Persian war, long before Islam appeared on the scene. Had Persia won the war, the world would have looked very different today. Since the Greeks emerged victorious, their thoughts have shaped our world.

Following the paths blazed by Judaism and Christianity, Islam challenged the Greek dictum creating a vast empire, a feat that the two other monotheistic faiths failed to achieve. The west never reconciled with its subjugation by Islam. Rather, it has ever since wished to make Islam disappear into the black hole of oblivion. It called Muhammad (PBUH) fake and branded Islam as barbaric. The Muslims, on their part, refuse to forget what they consider is their glorious past. They remain steadfast in their demand for the right seat at the table. This could be one of the roots of today’s east-west conflict.

The Palestinian-Israeli issue comes into play because Israel wants to foment anti-Muslim sentiments in Europe and the US to its advantage. This will not serve Israel well in the long run. It is in Israel’s long-term interest to embrace their cousins rather than push them over the edge. Remember, anti-Semitism took roots in Europe long before Islam came into existence because of the widespread belief among Christians that Jews killed Jesus Christ.

Casting the Muslims as villains has been kosher in the west for too long. It has been a favourite sport in Europe and the US to applaud anything negative about Islam, starting from Dante to Rushdie, who always see the evil side of things and make a mockery of freedom of speech. Those who defend them brandishing the sword of free speech would be hard pressed to prove how their diatribe created positive effects on society. Freedom of expression is no license to shout false fire in a packed theatre. Freedom without responsibility causes havoc.

A moderate Muslim but an anti-western crusader, Dr Mahatir Mohammad, Malaysia’s former prime minister, once called press freedom a myth. And many of his fellow Muslims see double standards in the west. It is freedom of expression when it comes to insulting Islam’s Prophet (PBUH) or holy book, but it is a hate crime when someone challenges the Holocaust. Criticising Israel is anti-Semitism, but supporting Palestinians is terrorism. Israel is rational enough to own the nuclear bomb, but not Iran.

It is this sense of fairness that is lacking in this debate. Only fairness and justice can ensure harmony. A fair US foreign policy and a curb on anti-Islamic rhetoric will go a long way toward it. And Muslims are better advised to be constructive rather than reactive. Killing diplomats and burning embassies will hurt them, not help.

[faye]

wrong again,

so who creates this predestined negativity, violence, wars, etc, that occur to you and others?