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Why I’m not celebrating U.S. exit from Afghanistan

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  • Why I’m not celebrating U.S. exit from Afghanistan

    uly 28, 2012

    Why I’m not celebrating U.S. exit from Afghanistan

    Pervez Hoodbhoy
    Viewpoint Magazine, Pakistan
    After a trillion dollars and 2000 dead Americans, there is precious
    little to show as the U.S. heads towards its 2014 exit. America’s
    primary goal had been to create a stable, non-hostile Afghan
    government and army which could stop extremist groups from once again
    using Afghan territory as a base. But Hamid Karzai is already on the
    way out, rapid desertions could collapse the Afghan National Army, and
    only die-hards like Marine Gen. John Allen say that the U.S. can win.
    The Taliban are smelling victory.

    America’s failure drives many bearded folks – and Imran Khan’s
    thoughtless supporters – into fits of ecstasy. It also delights some
    Pakistani leftists at home and abroad; imperialism has been humbled.
    Some comrades imagine that a mythical Afghan “working class” –
    whatever that might mean – will pop up from nowhere and somehow stop
    the Taliban from moving in as fast as the Americans move out. Do they
    also hope for snowflakes in summer?

    Foreign occupation is usually cruel, and it is easy to understand how
    the Americans have alienated Afghans with serial murderers like
    Sergeant Bales, Quran burnings, and aerial bombings of wedding
    parties. One certainly wishes they had never come to this part of the
    world and, particularly, that Pakistan had not become their willing
    pawn in the great anti-Soviet jihad.

    But history cannot be undone. Today there is only the cruel choice
    between continued American presence and Taliban rule. Of course, by
    some miracle, the Afghan National Army could perhaps hang on with the
    help of American air power. But for this to happen, even the Almighty
    might be hard pressed.

    Face it, comrades. What the Americans did in Afghanistan pales before
    the crimes committed by the Taliban government, 1996-2001. As the
    people of Swat were also to see a decade later, these lords of war
    reduced society to unspeakable barbarity. They proscribed music and
    sports in Afghanistan, inflicted harsh punishments upon men for
    trimming their beards, flogged taxi drivers for carrying women
    passengers, prevented sick women from being treated by male
    physicians, and banished girls from schools and women from the work
    place. Bodies of opponents swung from Kabul’s lamp posts for days
    before being taken down. Iran denounced the new Pakistan-supported
    victors as “fanatical, mediaeval Taliban” after they slaughtered 5000
    Shias in Bamiyan province.

    The Taliban are the most retrograde political movement in the history
    of Islam. But today some Pakistani TV commentators, with an eye
    towards pleasing GHQ, prattle away about the “new Taliban” being
    different from the “old Taliban”. It’s complete poppycock. One hears
    of atrocities almost every day: wherever the Taliban are strong in
    Afghanistan or Pakistan, they are back to their sick habits of summary
    executions, stoning women and men to death, and chopping hands. Just
    go to Google and find videos posted by the Taliban proudly advertising
    their atrocities.

    For those friends who plan to pop champagne in Islamabad, Lahore, or
    London to celebrate the American exit, here’s a simple challenge.
    Leave your make-believe world, go live under Taliban rule and, if you
    are fortunate enough to return, tell us how it was. If you are Shia,
    Hazara, woman, or one who cannot be silent upon witnessing wanton
    cruelty, be sure to say goodbye to your loved ones.

    Instead of the Taliban, our comrades are free to pick from any of the
    following replacements of American imperial rule: Hezb-e-Wahdat,
    Hezb-e-Islami, Jamiat-e-Islami, or ten others. Whichever you choose
    doesn’t really matter. I suspect that this will knock out their
    anti-imperialist rhetoric pretty fast.

    Call the international community **** if you like. But, compared to a
    decade ago, Afghan women today are said to live an average of 15 years
    longer than they did a decade ago because of better health care,
    nutrition and increased GDP. Tell us what the bearded folks plan to
    bring instead?

    So what is the future of Afghanistan after 2014?

    There is zero chance of a secular, pluralistic democracy. Tribal
    Afghan society, locked into primitive concepts of honor and revenge,
    is likely to remain unenlightened and torn apart by internal conflicts
    for generations to come. Afghans are already bracing for civil war
    after 2014.

    The only question is: what could be the least bad outcome? Since we
    Pakistanis must live with a theocracy next door, then one can only
    wish for a relatively enlightened version rather than a barbaric one.

    A relatively peaceful future will require that power in
    post-withdrawal Afghanistan be pluralistically shared by the country’s
    diverse ethnic groups: Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, etc. The
    alternative is limitless butchery.

    Regional actors can and must prevent this, as well as prevent a repeat
    of earlier Taliban horrors. To this end, Pakistan should give up its
    craving for “strategic depth”, Iran should be brought in to the
    picture by the U.S as a helpful ally, India should refrain from
    intrusions into Afghanistan that might antagonize Pakistan, and China
    must not signal the Taliban that it can fund them in exchange for
    mining rights. None of this is likely. But in despair one sometimes
    asks even for the moon.

  • #2
    Do you think ANY Afghans would ever accept Taliban in the previous role of Govt?

    Seems to have as much chance of regaining control as as a 'new, resurgent' Arthur Andersen regaining their share of the accounting business.
    Last edited by SiiNii; 08-03-2012, 04:50 AM.
    په پښتو ژبه ټایپ کول تاسو غواري؟ بيا داسې وکړي چې
    دلته وهي

    Comment


    • #3
      But history cannot be undone. Today there is only the cruel choice
      between continued American presence and Taliban rule...........what a pathetic situation!!!!!When the day will come when Afghanistan will be devoid of both Taliban and Foreigners!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by osho View Post
        But history cannot be undone. Today there is only the cruel choice
        between continued American presence and Taliban rule...........what a pathetic situation!!!!!When the day will come when Afghanistan will be devoid of both Taliban and Foreigners!
        I think Taleban and Islamic militancy is the worst evil for Muslim societies. It has lead to the social and political fragmentation of our societies and paved the way for foreigners' intervention in our lands.

        Comment


        • #5
          ته مسلمان نه یی او پښتون هم نه یی.
          نو دا عق تا له چا درکو چه د مسلمانانو نوم خپل ناوړی غیر اسلامې اجنډی لپاره استعمال کړی

          تکړه شه لکه خپل سولدات امیر په شانتی او خلکو باندی ځان سم وپیژنه

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by osho View Post
            But history cannot be undone. Today there is only the cruel choice
            between continued American presence and Taliban rule...........what a pathetic situation!!!!!When the day will come when Afghanistan will be devoid of both Taliban and Foreigners!
            I don't think that the talibans will take kabul again.. With the nato&U.S support of the new republic, it will be hard for them ?
            .

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by osho View Post
              Today there is only the cruel choice
              between continued American presence and Taliban rule...........what a pathetic situation!!!!!When the day will come when Afghanistan will be devoid of both Taliban and Foreigners!
              This day depends on yourself. As long as Taliban are seen as the only option to avoid foreigners and aslong as foreign presence is seen as the only wayto oppose Taliban nothing will change. Therefore action is needed, continous and very hard work.
              Ա՜խ, ընկել եմ քար ու քարափ,
              Իմ սրբություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ,

              Ես ծովակ եմ առանց կարապ,
              Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

              Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
              Իմ վեհություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by بریدمل View Post
                ته مسلمان نه یی او پښتون هم نه یی.
                نو دا عق تا له چا درکو چه د مسلمانانو نوم خپل ناوړی غیر اسلامې اجنډی لپاره استعمال کړی

                تکړه شه لکه خپل سولدات امیر په شانتی او خلکو باندی ځان سم وپیژنه
                Really, I don't need the fanatic interpretation of Islam or Pashtunwali that you adhere to. In my view that is just a poison. I am ok with what I am. Being a Pashtun or a fanatic Muslim is not the ultimate thing in life.

                Comment


                • #9
                  afghans will never have real peace and freedom as long as there is occupation and interference. what we have here is an artificial bubble that will eventually burst. you can't denounce paki interference while cheering american interference and vice versa.
                  There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                  Sayyid Qutb

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
                    afghans will never have real peace and freedom as long as there is occupation and interference. what we have here is an artificial bubble that will eventually burst. you can't denounce paki interference while cheering american interference and vice versa.


                    Paki interference = American interference.

                    Pakis interfere by supporting American interference with NATO supplies (giving heavy weaponry).

                    NATO war/Karzai regime is not possible without Pakistan support.
                    Last edited by Shah-i-Kot; 08-07-2012, 03:30 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lynx View Post
                      Paki interference = American interference.

                      Pakis interfere by supporting American interference with NATO supplies (giving heavy weaponry).

                      NATO war/Karzai regime is not possible without Pakistan support.

                      believe it or not, america and pakistan have different goals in afghanistan. the only thing they have in common is that they want to see a subordinate afghanistan.
                      There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                      Sayyid Qutb

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
                        believe it or not, america and pakistan have different goals in afghanistan. the only thing they have in common is that they want to see a subordinate afghanistan.
                        Same old story fairy tale line replete with distortions that carry no weight considering that Pakis made the NATO war/Karzai regime possible in the first place with their supply lines and airspace use.

                        The Paki fear of starting new operations against various Afghan insurgent groups does not amount to any breathtaking discovery.

                        Its like Syria telling Turkey to start a war within its borders to stop the insurgency in Syria. Pak has done that, and lost.


                        simple as that ...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          the only thing they have in common is that they want to see a subordinate afghanistan.
                          if you know that regardless of what you are doing you will have to eat s-h-i-t

                          than eat the s-h-i-t of a palaukhor and not another rulkhor .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The american intervention was legitimate, the talibans supported Al-qaeeda, these criminals killed so many people in 11th september, 2001.

                            Since the american intervention, Afghan girls can go to school, afghans can vote to choose their rulers, there is MUCH more freedom ( Afghans can watch tv, afghans can cut their beards etc.. )
                            If we compare to the terrible taliban regime ( 1996-2001 )

                            Now it's a good news , the talibans will never rule the big cities and kabul again, because they know that there will be some F22's or apaches, drones against them

                            Though i don't support karzai, but he is better than extremists in power.
                            .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ^
                              Two uses of the word 'Bharati':

                              - a Hindu girl's name
                              - used by Pakistanis to disparage Indians.

                              The correct Hindi translation of 'Indian' is 'Bhartiya'

                              You also have a curious avatar. One can be either loyal to India, or to US. Not Both.

                              Regarding your views about US invasion: I politely suggest to stop taking US media at its face value. From India's perspective the the US 'intervention' has been unmitigated disaster. Here's why:

                              1. US has given unprecedented civilian and military aid to Pakistan for facilitating access to Afghanistan. These weapons will be used by Pak Army against India, and has strengthened their bargaining position viz a viz India. Besides, US is using carrots and stick approach to push India to 'resolve' its outstanding disputes with Pakistan, so that its mercenary army can concentrate on their 'operations' in FATA.

                              2. Pakistan has fooled US into killing all the 'extremist' who oppose Pakistan by giving them false intelligence, while protecting those who depend upon Pakistani largesse for their survival. Even, the Americans are now realizing this fact.

                              3. Most importantly, the invasion has driven the beleaguered Afghans into the arms of Taliban, as they are the only viable force who are fighting the foreign invaders. They are being crushed between US juggernaut and Pakistani duplicity, which has lead to their further radicalization, thus denying the moderates and liberals any political space.
                              Last edited by drona; 08-10-2012, 11:35 AM.
                              Vande Mataram - Lata Mangeshkar - YouTube

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