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  • Armenian genocide

    he Armenian Genocide was carried out by the "Young Turk" government of the Ottoman Empire in 1915-1916 (with subsidiaries to 1922-23). One and a half million Armenians were killed, out of a total of two and a half million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire.
    Most Armenians in America are children or grandchildren of the survivors, although there are still many survivors amongst us.

    Armenians all over the world commemorate this great tragedy on April 24, because it was on that day in 1915 when 300 Armenian leaders, writers, thinkers and professionals in Constantinople (present day Istanbul) were rounded up, deported and killed. Also on that day in Constantinople, 5,000 of the poorest Armenians were butchered in the streets and in their homes.

    The Armenian Genocide was masterminded by the Central Committee of the Young Turk Party (Committee for Union and Progress [Ittihad ve Terakki Cemiyet, in Turkish]) which was dominated by Mehmed Talât [Pasha], Ismail Enver [Pasha], and Ahmed Djemal [Pasha]. They were a racist group whose ideology was articulated by Zia Gökalp, Dr. Mehmed Nazim, and Dr. Behaeddin Shakir.

    The Armenian Genocide was directed by a Special Organization (Teshkilati Mahsusa) set up by the Committee of Union and Progress, which created special "butcher battalions," made up of violent criminals released from prison.

    Some righteous Ottoman officials such as Celal, governor of Aleppo; Mazhar, governor of Ankara; and Reshid, governor of Kastamonu, were dismissed for not complying with the extermination campaign. Any common Turks who protected Armenians were killed.

    The Armenian Genocide occurred in a systematic fashion, which proves that it was directed by the Young Turk government.

    First the Armenians in the army were disarmed, placed into labor battalions, and then killed.

    Then the Armenian political and intellectual leaders were rounded up on April 24, 1915, and then killed.

    Finally, the remaining Armenians were called from their homes, told they would be relocated, and then marched off to concentration camps in the desert between Jerablus and Deir ez-Zor where they would starve and thirst to death in the burning sun.

    On the march, often they would be denied food and water, and many were brutalized and killed by their "guards" or by "marauders." The authorities in Trebizond, on the Black Sea coast, did vary this routine: they loaded Armenians on barges and sank them out at sea.

    The Turkish government today denies that there was an Armenian genocide and claims that Armenians were only removed from the eastern "war zone." The Armenian Genocide, however, occurred all over Anatolia [present-day Turkey], and not just in the so-called "war zone." Deportations and killings occurred in the west, in and around Ismid (Izmit) and Broussa (Bursa); in the center, in and around Angora (Ankara); in the south-west, in and around Konia (Konya) and Adana (which is near the Mediterranean Sea); in the central portion of Anatolia, in and around Diyarbekir (Diyarbakir), Harpout (Harput), Marash, Sivas (Sepastia), Shabin Kara-Hissar (�ebin Karahisar), and Ourfa (Urfa); and on the Black Sea coast, in and around Trebizond (Trabzon), all of which are not part of a war zone. Only Erzeroum, Bitlis, and Van in the east were in the war zone.

    The Armenian Genocide was condemned at the time by representatives of the British, French, Russian, German, and Austrian governments—namely all the major Powers. The first three were foes of the Ottoman Empire, the latter two, allies of the Ottoman Empire. The United States, neutral towards the Ottoman Empire, also condemned the Armenian Genocide and was the chief spokesman in behalf of the Armenians.

    The American people, via local Protestant missionaries, did the most to save the wretched remnants of the death marches, the orphaned children.

    Despite Turkish denial, there is no doubt about the Armenian Genocide. For example, German ambassador Count von Wolff-Metternich, Turkey's ally in World War I, wrote his government in 1916 saying: "The Committee [of Union and Progress] demands the annihilation of the last remnants of the Armenians and the [Ottoman] government must bow to its demands."

    German consuls stationed in Turkey, including Vice Consul Max Erwin von Scheubner-Richner of Erzerum [Erzurum] who was Adolf Hitler's chief political advisor in the 1920s, were eyewitnesses. Hitler said to his generals on the eve of sending his Death's Heads units into Poland, "Go, kill without mercy . . . who today remembers the annihilation of the Armenians."

    Henry Morgenthau Sr., the neutral American ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, sent a cable to the U.S. State Department in 1915:

    "Deportation of and excesses against peaceful Armenians is increasing and from harrowing reports of eye witnesses [sic] it appears that a campaign of race extermination is in progress under a pretext of reprisal against rebellion."
    Morgenthau's successor as Ambassador to Turkey, Abram Elkus, cabled the U.S. State Department in 1916 that the Young Turks were continuing an ". . . unchecked policy of extermination through starvation, exhaustion, and brutality of treatment hardly surpassed even in Turkish history."

    Only one Turkish government, that of Damad Ferit Pasha, has ever recognized the Armenian genocide. In fact, that Turkish government held war crimes trials and condemned to death the major leaders responsible.

    The Turkish court concluded that the leaders of the Young Turk government were guilty of murder. "This fact has been proven and verified." It maintained that the genocidal scheme was carried out with as much secrecy as possible. That a public facade was maintained of "relocating" the Armenians. That they carried out the killing by a secret network. That the decision to eradicate the Armenians was not a hasty decision, but "the result of extensive and profound deliberations."

    Ismail Enver Pasha, Ahmed Cemal Pasha, Mehmed Talât Bey, and a host of others were convicted by the Turkish court and condemned to death for "the extermination and destruction of the Armenians."

    The Permanent People's Tribunal recognized the Armenian Genocide on April 16, 1984.

    The European Parliament voted to recognize the Armenian Genocide on June 18, 1987.

    President Bush issued a news release in 1990 calling on all Americans to join with Armenians on April 24 in commemorating "the more than a million Armenian people who were victims."

    President Clinton issued a news release on April 24, 1994, to commemorate the "tragedy" that befell the Armenians in 1915.

    The Russian Duma (the lower house of the bicameral Russian legislature) voted on April 20, 1994, to recognize the Armenian Genocide.

    Israel officially condemned the Armenian Genocide as Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Yossi Beilin proclaimed on the floor of the Knesset (the Israeli legislature), on April 27, 1994, in answer to the claims of the Turkish Ambassador, that "It was not war. It was most certainly massacre and genocide, something the world must remember."

    The Armenian genocide is similar to the Jewish holocaust in many respects. Both people adhere to an ancient religion. Both were religious minorities of their respective states. Both have a history of persecution. Both have new democracies. Both are surrounded by enemies. Both are talented and creative minorities who have been persecuted out of envy and obscurantism.

    Issues:

    The Republic of Turkey must cease to be the only major country in the world to deny the Armenian Genocide.
    The Republic of Turkey must show good will by allowing American aid to present-day Armenia to pass through unhindered.
    The Republic of Turkey must cease to train Azerbaijani soldiers in Turkey for the purpose of attacking Armenia.
    April 3, 1996

    Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

    A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

    For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


    The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

    -Ferishta, 1560–1620

  • #2
    bernard lewis denies that it was a genocide.

    Comment


    • #3
      Dear Admin Khan, Where did You get this article from ?
      This topic should be discussed carefully. Many things the article shows aren't in the right view.
      Even if it gives exactly the right chronology of what happened this is not enough to understand the whole problematic.


      First of all I would tell something about this phrase:
      The Armenian genocide is similar to the Jewish holocaust in many respects. Both people adhere to an ancient religion. Both were religious minorities of their respective states. Both have a history of persecution. Both have new democracies. Both are surrounded by enemies. Both are talented and creative minorities who have been persecuted out of envy and obscurantism
      This phrase isn't right, first of all The genocide of my people happened on their own land, sparsely populatd by turks, but mostly only by Armenians and Kurds., We were not a minority but a majority there. Second, Armenians belonged to different religions and beliefs, however this article refers to christians, but wheter christianism is ancient or no, what does it change. my people have not much to do with Jewsish racism but this phrase is written in a racis way. We are normal people like every normal people and not something special, how some stupid people(even in my country self) try to show it, we have as talented as not talented people and it is surely not an arguent for anything how this sentence troes to do.
      We are not surrounded by enemies. We have good relations to Iran and Georgia, we have good relations to the minorities in Azerbaijan, we have only problems with the Panturkism rule in Azerbaijan and the same hidden pnturkism in Turkey.
      We are not a democracy.
      We have had same persecutions as many other people in the region and our different decisions brought different results for every nation.
      We are normal people and I am against this mythologization of one of the black chapters of my nations history.


      To the history.

      My country has been divided long before the Turks between the Persian and Roman(Byzantine) empires.
      The Byzantine part of Armenia became part of the Ottoman empire.
      The ottoman Armenia included places like Van, Erzerum, Erznjan, Bitlis, Mush,etc.
      Surely the Turk rule was never liked by the Armenians as they inaved our land and as the laws of the Ottoman empire were quiet bad to Armenians. Armenians were thought to be simple peasants working on the land, but not having anything of their work. In contrasts Ottoman lws tried to keep a contingent of Kurds always hungry and oppressive to Armenians and some simple Kurds. The laws used religion and its ideology a lot.
      However Armenian lands were in always known as the ones with a lack of resitance and big passivity, what cannot be sait about Greeks or Albanians or Arabs.
      The situation changed with Abdul Hamid II, this sultan was i quiet cruel leader and it was him who began the series of genocide, he began to invade plunder and kill with the Hamidiye units all armenian villages. It was due to that that the first time resistance broke out. We had some small Fedayi units from leaders like Arabo, Serob Aghbyur, Gevorg Chavush, Armenak and some others.However many of our people do to christian ideology were passive and full of fear, that is why these units were almost very small. However they have shown to be quiet effective to protect simple Armenians and Kurds (they were fighting mostly for the protection of simple villagers).
      Some Armenian parties were born, but those parties weren't good parties as many powers had influence on them. These parties however helped the Young Turks to get to Power, hoping that their promisses of liberal society would also regard Armenians. Moreover Enver Pasha, the Youngturk defence minister was saved by Armenian pheasants during theRussian-Ottoman war from the bullets of russian soilders.
      However it is to notice tat most of the Youngturk leaders weren't pure turks but hidden Jews of a sect that superficialy acepted Islam while remaining hidden Jews. There are many conspiracy theories on those Young turks in connection to the creaton of Israel, but i want to distance myself from any theories, I have not enough knowledge, but I know that the west with the Youngturks and ome big buisnessmen from Europe wanted to mace a lot of petrolbuisness, Armenians in that case were a useless disturbing factor, so that the panturkism was a usefull ideology to support the creation of a big uniform state that would be a stable buisnesspartner. Some Englishman even told that if we Armenians became to selfthinking we are an obstacle in global interests. Germany fully supplied the Turkish army, educated it and knew everything hat hapened in Turkey. Other interests were many but not all is known.
      The Young turks tried to eliminate any non-Turkish element, starting with Armenians, as they decided that we are not turkifiable. Later the chronology given by Admin Khan gives information on how it very approximately happened. It is to Add that after it already the Turkish army under Ataturks rule attacked eastern Armenia(the part of Armenia that wasn't under Turkish rule), trying to destroy it completely. However they lost the battles of Aparan, Sardarapat and Vanadzor, and Commander Garegin Nzhdeh separately defendet the mountainous Syunq region from Turks and Communists.
      Only due to this four defensions of Armenians were we won, our country contiinues to exist, otherwise you wouldn't know about us.

      But, all our heroes were betrayed and treated bad, some were imrisoned by communists, some were killed by traitors....

      During communist rule 2 regions of eastern Armenia, Gardmanq and Nakhijevan were dearmenized completely.



      What we can learn out of it:

      Has there been a Genocide towards my people?
      Yes , my people were killed on their own homeland were they were a majority.
      So we lost our homeland.

      Who is guilty for that genocide?

      First of all Armenians themselfes, as we were to passive and did make us kill as sheeps by a small amount of Hamidiye units.


      Why is there so much dicussions on the Genocide in the West?

      Because the west tries to use us for their games without taking their part of responsability for the destruction of my nation. And my people are in a deep state of passiveness and hope that somebody will come and resolve our problems and do not realize that our problems we have to resolve only ourselves.

      Is it important to recognize a genocide?

      Crimes should be recognized volunatrly by sane people, if people need to recognize something 100 years later because now it fits their interests to do so it means they are hypocrites. Shortly said all the recognition talks are simly some affairsthey need, to keep us passive and to achieve from the turks some things they want to.


      Why did Armenians get in such a situation that could have been avoided as Armenia was a big country?


      Because my country was a tribal society were one leader used to invade the other, often with the help of foreigners and the simple people suffered. We had no unity and made usselfes a toy of our enemies.


      Why is that all important?

      For me Pashtuns have many similar problems, even if my knowledge is reduced but i see it from the discussions here.
      The history of my people can be somehow a lesson, to leave some conservative ways of thinking and to be unite for your own peoples. To forget everybodies past, may it be Talib, NA, proAmerican or pro Soviet. To realize that You are one nation, and that from all that dividing suffer only You, and that You should be able to unite first for Your own and not first to subdivide yourselfes politically or religiously. Religious and political problems You should learn to manage between yourselfes, but if You are not united in the name of yourselves divisions and wars and foreign rules and wars will continue.


      My country is one of the orst wxamples how a small nation can defend herself. Other examples are quiet more bright and full of honour and hope, I would like for example link You on Korea, that suceeded to defend itself and that succeded at least parly even economically nowdays.



      That is all for the moment
      Ա՜խ, ընկել եմ քար ու քարափ,
      Իմ սրբություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ,

      Ես ծովակ եմ առանց կարապ,
      Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

      Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
      Իմ վեհություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

      Comment


      • #4
        PS: The questions I expressed are sure answered in my view on them, with which you can disagree and that can be non correct, specially concerning Your nation!
        However i tried to divide my honest view on these questions, for that I would appologize not to have any anger towards me if I should somehow have touched your belief and national feelings.
        With the best wishes of health to alloff You, Aliq
        Ա՜խ, ընկել եմ քար ու քարափ,
        Իմ սրբություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ,

        Ես ծովակ եմ առանց կարապ,
        Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

        Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
        Իմ վեհություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Aliq, the source is listed. I was actually looking forward to your response, since most of my Turkish friends deny that it was a genocide.
          Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

          A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

          For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


          The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

          -Ferishta, 1560–1620

          Comment


          • #6
            Excuse me I didn't notice it strangely, seems some armenoamerican organization writing it.

            Surely your Turkish friends deny it is a "Genocide", that is because of the official position of Turkey.
            The situation is very complex, many of the Anti armenian idologists became heroes of the new founded Turkey after the Ottoman empire. And generally it is logical that without cleaning the Armenian Vilayats of Turkey to nowdays Turkey would be quiet different and much smaller. The cleansing of the Armenian ands are part of the fundaments of Turkey. Not Your friends are guilty in it, but it is difficult simple Turkish people know it.
            Big powers generally do not admit their crimes, and if they do only for some reason they need to. The world is unfortunately like that, specially in our times.

            Turkey has also right in one oint, as it told the west that if it has to admit genocide and crimes the west would have to do the same for all the things they did arround the world. And that is pure logic, as countries like USA or Great Britain fo example never take the resonsability on their crimes, why should Turkey do?
            Ա՜խ, ընկել եմ քար ու քարափ,
            Իմ սրբություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ,

            Ես ծովակ եմ առանց կարապ,
            Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

            Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
            Իմ վեհություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

            Comment


            • #7
              So you agree that a genocide has occured, right?
              Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

              A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

              For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


              The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

              -Ferishta, 1560–1620

              Comment


              • #8
                Sure I agree.
                My family for example comes also rom the Ottoman Armenia, and we know of our relatives who survived and who couldn't flee and was killed.
                Ա՜խ, ընկել եմ քար ու քարափ,
                Իմ սրբություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ,

                Ես ծովակ եմ առանց կարապ,
                Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

                Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
                Իմ վեհություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nice talking to you Arevapasht, you certainly taught me a lot about the subject.
                  Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                  A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                  For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                  The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                  -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well my friend, this subject is a very complicated one, and surely cannot be seen singularly. Unfortunately too many interests were and are involved in our region, so many things remain unclear.

                    If You ask me, I am for a solution that nowdays is quiet impossible due to my own nations weakness and due to the same oute interests.
                    According to me however our problems with Turkey should be solved without any interference and that remain our own problems, for this changes are needed, but changes are surely not of interest for those who need to use our conflict for their own motifs.
                    Ա՜խ, ընկել եմ քար ու քարափ,
                    Իմ սրբություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ,

                    Ես ծովակ եմ առանց կարապ,
                    Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

                    Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
                    Իմ վեհություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Arevapasht View Post
                      Well my friend, this subject is a very complicated one, and surely cannot be seen singularly. Unfortunately too many interests were and are involved in our region, so many things remain unclear.

                      If You ask me, I am for a solution that nowdays is quiet impossible due to my own nations weakness and due to the same oute interests.
                      According to me however our problems with Turkey should be solved without any interference and that remain our own problems, for this changes are needed, but changes are surely not of interest for those who need to use our conflict for their own motifs.
                      Can you give me an example of outsiders using the recognition of the Armenian genocide for their own strategic interests?
                      Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                      A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                      For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                      The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                      -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well the list is various and surely I do not know the interests that are hidden bihind it.
                        Some obvious are:

                        1) European countries use such issues for two reasons, the first is they never talk bout their own involvement on the genocide, the second, they use it as an arguement for negotiations with Turkey to achieve some aims.
                        2) The USA used that theme for many inner political games to be elected for example by the Armenian comunities(almost all of the last president candidates in the last two decades). On the same time they used their protective power towards Turkey as their nato partner for having help in different wars. In this somehow Israel is involved to.
                        3) The Soviets used it fulfilling some inner claims of Turkey on Armenia in the hope Turkey would become communist.
                        4) Russia is surely interested in an ally like Armenia that has a big need and dependance on Russia.

                        Mostly As Europe as USA as Russia have relations in some how to different sides of the conflict like assureing thatin how the situation in the region evolves they could get something positive of it.

                        The issue of recognition for both Turkey and Armenia is always related to some kind of service one of the two countries should do. Turkey in thi sense is much stronger.


                        5) The promises of the West towards Armenia made Armenia once in the 1920ies quiet passive, and e had to pay many consequences.

                        6) Behind the recognition there are a lot of links to sionism and europian coresponsability that is quiet well hidden be the chosen way of politics made by the powers involved.


                        7) The non resolvability of our situation makes the region a potential place for future conflicts usable for future military and economical interests in the region.
                        Ա՜խ, ընկել եմ քար ու քարափ,
                        Իմ սրբություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ,

                        Ես ծովակ եմ առանց կարապ,
                        Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

                        Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
                        Իմ վեհություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          @Arevapasht

                          Why do you think that Bernard Lewis refuses to consider it a genocide. He has been given all access to the Ottoman documents.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            afghanistan had once a church for the armenian community that lived in afghanistan it was destroyed by the british invaders.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arevapasht View Post
                              Well the list is various and surely I do not know the interests that are hidden bihind it.
                              Some obvious are:

                              1) European countries use such issues for two reasons, the first is they never talk bout their own involvement on the genocide, the second, they use it as an arguement for negotiations with Turkey to achieve some aims.
                              2) The USA used that theme for many inner political games to be elected for example by the Armenian comunities(almost all of the last president candidates in the last two decades). On the same time they used their protective power towards Turkey as their nato partner for having help in different wars. In this somehow Israel is involved to.
                              3) The Soviets used it fulfilling some inner claims of Turkey on Armenia in the hope Turkey would become communist.
                              4) Russia is surely interested in an ally like Armenia that has a big need and dependance on Russia.

                              Mostly As Europe as USA as Russia have relations in some how to different sides of the conflict like assureing thatin how the situation in the region evolves they could get something positive of it.

                              The issue of recognition for both Turkey and Armenia is always related to some kind of service one of the two countries should do. Turkey in thi sense is much stronger.


                              5) The promises of the West towards Armenia made Armenia once in the 1920ies quiet passive, and e had to pay many consequences.

                              6) Behind the recognition there are a lot of links to sionism and europian coresponsability that is quiet well hidden be the chosen way of politics made by the powers involved.


                              7) The non resolvability of our situation makes the region a potential place for future conflicts usable for future military and economical interests in the region.
                              Good to see that you are not caught in this game of emotional blackmail and can see beyond the pity games.

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