What do Pakistani Pashtuns mean when they say Lar aw bar yaw Pakhtun

[RevolutionThroughReason]

it looks a bit half baked though, because she is still wearing the burkha.

a woman can wear a burqa if she chooses.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I agree with most of sacrifices you mentioned...but not the man you are praising too much.He didnt equate ghilzai...on the contrary those were ghilzais who ruled with fair means.May be some of maliks of "the man" were just but not majority.Come to pakistan and tribals areas esp....what KHAN of durrani dynasty means....We hate them for proclaiming for our lands....Whats the big deal in preventing KP from russians...same is done by pak from indian govt.The taxes paid by us karlanis were more than those of bar pashtuns.I have to this day gone through racism from racist KHANS...u may live in bookish fairy tales...not me.It doesnt mean i hate them... i love pashtuns in general.This racism thing is far behind in my mind.It has no value to me.


I respect some rulers of pashtuns esp khushal khan khattak...but not greedy ones.The problem is not with people...the prob is with greedy leaders...few have emerged as sincere.

He set a few situations aright with redistribution of lands as in MirWais's time some of the Abdali traditional lands were confiscated.

With respect to India - Once again, that was Ahmad Shah's original doing and the Afghan's doing that kept Sikh incursions at bay. Imaging of Rao Singh had made it through the Khybar Pass; it would have been a mess.

Currently though - I highly doubt in a no holds barred match that Pakistan would be able to keep India from being one end of the pincer.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

indians are investing all around the world. they are a developing country that still has a lot of internal problems but for them, investment is part of their long term insurance for india.
they still have to be kept an eye on, because they and china have companies in africa, that have been negligent to the locals there and to the african environments.

Well Faye that is exactly the point. Whether America and its original colonies were rich or poor did not matter - what did was complete autonomy. I am not talking about idiotic post colonial autonomy where the colonial power recedes but its native face remains in vogue. In this same way - the notion that any power Iran, Pakistan, India, America, Russia is simply some Santa Clause is foolish. As was seen in the Russian Adventure - Santa Clause is actually a Repo Man and he aims to collect when the time is right.

One of the original arguments the British made when Mohammad Mossadegh decided to take control of Iran's native resources for his people was that the British had done all the hard work and how dare Iran make an autonomous decision affecting the fact that the British built the oil infrastructure.

[pashtun_rise]

indians are investing all around the world. they are a developing country that still has a lot of internal problems but for them, investment is part of their long term insurance for india.
they still have to be kept an eye on, because they and china have companies in africa, that have been negligent to the locals there and to the african environments.

No faye...indians and hazaras are killing pashtuns in tribal areas...we have received people...esp women were kidnapped by them..not only on one ocassion but on many ocassions near our village they were caught and killed.We have found their books,ID cards etc.Most worse hazaras are claiming that they are trained in both india and some have also claimed after being caught that they are hired by iranians.That much i know.Then recetly lynx posted an article where it says openly that indians have trained 25000 soldiers...where do u think they are dispatching those so called northern alliance soldiers...its making sense now that what those men who were caught in tribal areas is true...they are really getting trained in india....about iran time ll prove.

Indians have good economy...ok its a good thing...but why training hazaras why not pashtun soldiers? Something fishy is going on...esp pashtuns genocide.Northern alliance has kept many lover boys mainly pashtuns as a disgrace and revenge from pashtuns.This so called karzai govt is US 's puppet govt.Indian enemy is like a wolf in sheep.Time ll prove.

[pashtun_rise]

He set a few situations aright with redistribution of lands as in MirWais's time some of the Abdali traditional lands were confiscated.

With respect to India - Once again, that was Ahmad Shah's original doing and the Afghan's doing that kept Sikh incursions at bay. Imaging of Rao Singh had made it through the Khybar Pass; it would have been a mess.

Currently though - I highly doubt in a no holds barred match that Pakistan would be able to keep India from being one end of the pincer.

Afghans or karlanis who kept sikhs at bay? Afghans refused the help.Ahmad shah abdali did good.That i accept in this regard.If pak is not able to keep indian at one end...so does afghanis...its the fight of modern age vs stone age..ofcourse here no one can be safe.Pak govt itself is doing drone attacks.But so does talibs...whats the big deal? Most important who is in favour of so called indians? Not us ...afghans.And what do you think that now west is listening to so called pashtunistan theory? They are merely looking for an excuse to centralize pashtuns from KP to some parts of afghanistan...along with balochis pashtuns....KURDISTAN....They ll have balochistan...and india ll have remaining part of afghanistan with hazara...already in their alliance.Pashtuns are sleeping.

[pashtun_rise]

because you're pathetically trying to hide behind religion and use some sort of phony emotional black mail scheme using Islam as a justification for it. And you're trying to tell us Afghanistan natives who we're allowed and not allowed to make friends with.

Now if India was sending militants to Afghanistan blowing things up; then I'd understand, but India has more or less been friendly to us.

Mr. Wahhabi? If I was a Wahhabi I'd be arguing about being friends with Pakistan JUST because they call themselves Muslims and hating India just because they're NOt Muslim; ...that's how a Wahhabi thinks.....you know who else on this forum thinks that way?....You do.

I refuted all your historical claims; the History you learn in Pakistan is bogus; they specifically hide and censor things from you as a way of mind control; that's not the case for me.

I know about wahhabis becoz i ve encountered them in my personal lives....N becoz i also know about other religions...does that mean i am like them...Stupid argument.


My history if bothers you...why dont you bother me by your history? If i would ve been brain washed...i wd ve taking favour of atleast one person.Can u name one such person? Even with haviz i didnt agree fully.Now you tell me why you fully agree with indian govt? ..May be this hadeeth can explain...that wahhabis will disgrace other muslims(like you disgrace pashtuns) and they ll love idolators (like you love indian govt).

[RevolutionThroughReason]

No faye...indians and hazaras are killing pashtuns in tribal areas...we have received people...esp women were kidnapped by them..not only on one ocassion but on many ocassions near our village they were caught and killed.We have found their books,ID cards etc.Most worse hazaras are claiming that they are trained in both india and some have also claimed after being caught that they are hired by iranians.That much i know.Then recetly lynx posted an article where it says openly that indians have trained 25000 soldiers...where do u think they are dispatching those so called northern alliance soldiers...its making sense now that what those men who were caught in tribal areas is true...they are really getting trained in india....about iran time ll prove.

Indians have good economy...ok its a good thing...but why training hazaras why not pashtun soldiers? Something fishy is going on...esp pashtuns genocide.Northern alliance has kept many lover boys mainly pashtuns as a disgrace and revenge from pashtuns.This so called karzai govt is US 's puppet govt.Indian enemy is like a wolf in sheep.Time ll prove.

hahaha don't make stuff up, prove it

[faye]

a woman can wear a burqa if she chooses.

true, but i saw a doco recently of young afghan women, going to the streets in kabul (i think it was) without burkha and recording what the men say to them and also interviewing the men to see why they say crude and disrespectful things to them. very interesting.
so for me, seeing the woman face to face with talib, who wants her to be covered would be no 1.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I know about wahhabis becoz i ve encountered them in my personal lives....N becoz i also know about other religions...does that mean i am like them...Stupid argument.


My history if bothers you...why dont you bother me by your history? If i would ve been brain washed...i wd ve taking favour of atleast one person.Can u name one such person? Even with haviz i didnt agree fully.Now you tell me why you fully agree with indian govt? ..May be this hadeeth can explain...that wahhabis will disgrace other muslims(like you disgrace pashtuns) and they ll love idolators (like you love indian govt).

the fact you're attacking India for just being Non-Muslim is how a Wahhabi would think



I am respectful and tolerant of all good people regardless of what they are.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

true, but i saw a doco recently of young afghan women, going to the streets in kabul (i think it was) without burkha and recording what the men say to them and also interviewing the men to see why they say crude and disrespectful things to them. very interesting.
so for me, seeing the woman face to face with talib, who wants her to be covered would be no 1.

well being covered isn't the ONLY battle ground; sometimes you disappoint me with your Western superficialities as if "burqas" are somehow the battle ground of liberty. Women in burqas, need medical care, need rights to seek recourse from abusive husbands, need rights of being able to avoid forced marriages. There are many battlegrounds a burqa is not even one that is all that important since it is hypothetically possible for a woman not to have healthcare, educational opportunities, marital rights and so on ...even if she wears a burqa

the burqa/non-burqa is a western dichotomy, and this time it is very fair to use a "western" appellation to this argument.

[faye]

Well Faye that is exactly the point. Whether America and its original colonies were rich or poor did not matter - what did was complete autonomy. I am not talking about idiotic post colonial autonomy where the colonial power recedes but its native face remains in vogue. In this same way - the notion that any power Iran, Pakistan, India, America, Russia is simply some Santa Clause is foolish. As was seen in the Russian Adventure - Santa Clause is actually a Repo Man and he aims to collect when the time is right.

One of the original arguments the British made when Mohammad Mossadegh decided to take control of Iran's native resources for his people was that the British had done all the hard work and how dare Iran make an autonomous decision affecting the fact that the British built the oil infrastructure.

i have absolutely no idea what you are on about. would you mind getting this translated for me.
i am a simpleton dear, never been to uni, don't relate to all these roundabout comments that have to be unravelled.

[faye]

No faye...indians and hazaras are killing pashtuns in tribal areas...we have received people...esp women were kidnapped by them..not only on one ocassion but on many ocassions near our village they were caught and killed.We have found their books,ID cards etc.Most worse hazaras are claiming that they are trained in both india and some have also claimed after being caught that they are hired by iranians.That much i know.Then recetly lynx posted an article where it says openly that indians have trained 25000 soldiers...where do u think they are dispatching those so called northern alliance soldiers...its making sense now that what those men who were caught in tribal areas is true...they are really getting trained in india....about iran time ll prove.

Indians have good economy...ok its a good thing...but why training hazaras why not pashtun soldiers? Something fishy is going on...esp pashtuns genocide.Northern alliance has kept many lover boys mainly pashtuns as a disgrace and revenge from pashtuns.This so called karzai govt is US 's puppet govt.Indian enemy is like a wolf in sheep.Time ll prove.

i thought you are supposedly in pakistan. i read that the hazaras are killed and mistreated there, due to prejudice against them and they have been coming to australia as refugees for some years now, because of abuse by taliban against them in afghanistan. the hazaras have reported that pakistanis and other foreigners were with the taliban when they, hazaras, were attacked and murdered.

i don't know what the exact truth is but those are from articles and books i have read and docos i have seen

where did it say they are only training non pashtuns? if that is the case it is due most likely, to not many pashtun being in the afghan army.
indians may be training afghan soldiers as they are going to be wanting afghanistan government and forces to help guard them if they are starting mining there.

[faye]

well being covered isn't the ONLY battle ground; sometimes you disappoint me with your Western superficialities as if "burqas" are somehow the battle ground of liberty. Women in burqas, need medical care, need rights to seek recourse from abusive husbands, need rights of being able to avoid forced marriages. There are many battlegrounds a burqa is not even one that is all that important since it is hypothetically possible for a woman not to have healthcare, educational opportunities, marital rights and so on ...even if she wears a burqa

the burqa/non-burqa is a western dichotomy, and this time it is very fair to use a "western" appellation to this argument.

[R3SISTANC3]

Pakistan has not taken our lands...but we are here with our lands....that you yourself are saying.The problem is with afghans who are shaking hands with indian govt....U think its better for pashtuns to wlecome them? Its the govts of both pak and afghanistan you can blame...but not people.U must know that there are whole settled villages of pashtuns in punjab and sindh....They didnt claimed of those lands either...those lands were given by british govt.So who ll you guys hate by hating punjab or sindh lands? In karachi people are learning pashto out of love for pashtuns and their culture...with exclusion of hizb_u_shaitan (MQM...who are mafia dealers...they are killings simple sindhis and punjabis too...their religion is money not ethnicity).

The whole pak is ours...and of other ethnics. Pashtuns are everywhere....lets not to forget the atrocities done by ayub khan,yahya khan,ghula ishaq khan etc..who were pashtuns but did nothing for pashtuns instead created pashtun punjabi conflicts to regain more and more power....pashtuns prospered at bhotto's time...who was not pashtun.He gave opportunities to them (exclude the present stupid PPP).Brother...dont hate general pakis...

Many presumptions there...I don't hate Punjabis nor do I blame average Pakistanis, neither am I from Afghanistan. I am a fellow Pakistani sister.

As for Pakistan and present day Afghanistan, both are a mess created by the British. Pakistani Pashtuns, majority are ignorant about their past and history, yet those who are educated, among them a nationalist resurgence that aspire towards their Afghan identity - in contrast to a Pakistani/Indic one - is taking place. I know many Pakistanis have a hard time dealing with this but the unification of Pashtun is inevitable, it's just a matter of time and education.

Reason being, there is no real/valid historic, scientific, geographic, or religious reason for this division. The only one there ever was is the one perpetuated by the British and their stooges which was created to weaken the Muslims of the region. This division is haram with a capital H, in fact I will go as far as to say that those who support it are conspiring against Islam, not only using standard Islamic justice but also because of the reasoning and history behind this division.

Of course there should be no malice towards Punjabis, or any other non-Pashtun Pakistanis because the average man had no say in this. This is a game played by the elite and their pet dogs. My wish is that both nations figure out a peaceful solution to this.

As for India, Pakistanis have this Hindu-phobia which steams from their insecurity and inferiority complex. This is the reason why haviZ probably adopted Pashtun identity vs. the alternative i.e. Punjabi/Mahajir/Sindhi etc. all of which are Indian in respect. You as a Pashtun should realize that this is a personal matter between these two Indic brethren, and stay away from Hindu-phobia. This Hindu-phobia also gives the current ruling military janta power, without the fear of big bad evil vegetarian Hindus Pakistani army has no role in politics.

The republicans in the US use Islam and Muslims to get votes, the military in Pakistan use India and Hindus to remain in power (a reason why Pakistanis and US republicans always get along - same nature creatures).

Just look at what this Hindu-phobia turned Pakistan into. Behind every rock a RAW agent is hiding, paranoia every where and 20 hrs no bijlee while the Indians are aiming for the moon. All this Hindu and Indian-phobia has resulted in nothing but suffering for Pakistan. What has Pakistan accomplished with all the Indian bashing and what state is it in compared to India? You guys are beating a dead horse, time to realize that something is seriously wrong with that mantra and change is necessary.

India is no longer a regional power but a global power. Afghanistan has no choice but to shake hands with it. If Pakistan can shake hands with Americans, and the Chinese, both with an extensive record slaughtering Muslims, then why is it a problem for Afghanistan to shake hands with a country where Muslims are the second largest majority and have a great influence over politics?

Pakistani arguments dont make sense. It's like watching a horror movie, a twilight show.

[asif86]

Now the land you are talking about are within Pakistan, but they are occupied by Pashtun, who also happen to be Afghan, so how does that statement make any sense? How do you have a problem with Afghan having rights over land that they already occupy, live on, and call home?

I thought it was other way round with pakistan or punjabis occuping afghan land, thats something which some afghan nationalists say.