Free Dr Shakeel Afridi

[Shah-i-Kot]

how does that make him an apostate to help others kill a man who was killing Muslims?

Afridi was allegedly sentenced for breaking the law by a tribal court. He also allegedly ran a fake vaccination program.

He still has yet to speak, and his part should be heard.

[Shah-i-Kot]

how does that make him an apostate to help others kill a man who was killing Muslims?

Who did 9/11? Provide proof for your claims? Likewise who did the 2003 Iraq war? Provide proof for that too.

How do you define terrorism? What is terrorism?

[Shah-i-Kot]

Soldat, what do you think of Rob Grenier's viewpoint? He is the former boss of Dr. Scheuer and is no longer an affiliate with their prior place of work. PS. Please do not urinate on Robert if you disagree with him (jk);0

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...817393466.html

Of pride, nationalism, loyalty and deceit American cluelessness of Pakistani attitudes toward the jailed Dr Shakil Afridi is what is so disturbing in this affair.

Washington, DC - Once again, voices of righteous indignation are being raised dramatically in Washington. Senators Carl Levin and John McCain, the two ranking members of the Senate Armed Services Committee, are perhaps the most strident among them, having just pronounced the actions of a Pakistani court to be "shocking and outrageous". Should the government of Pakistan fail to undo this judicial travesty, they assert, it "will only do further harm to US-Pakistani relations, including diminishing Congress' willingness to provide financial assistance to Pakistan".

The list of serious irritants to US-Pakistani relations is long these days. But the cause of this most recent spate of bluster and threats was the sentencing last Wednesday by a Pakistani tribal court of one Dr Shakil Afridi, a Pakistani public-health physician convicted of having provided intelligence assistance in support of US efforts to track down Osama bin Laden. Dr Afridi is alleged to have organised an ostensible vaccination campaign in the vicinity of bin Laden's suspected hideout in hopes of inoculating one or more of the resident children, thereby potentially gaining a DNA confirmation of the al-Qaeda leader's presence. What other assistance the Pakistani physician may have provided, if any, we do not know. No one suggests Afridi was aware of the actual target of the Americans' interest. Precisely what he thought he was doing, or his motives in doing it likewise remain uncertain. What is clear, however, is that Pakistan considers him a traitor, and that he has been sentenced to 33 years in prison.

Just as they did shortly after Afridi's arrest in the aftermath of last year's raid on bin Laden's Abbottabad compound, however, various US officials are expressing a combination of outrage and incomprehension. Secretary of State Clinton has just described Afridi's treatment as "unjust and unwarranted". Speaking from Air Force One, the White House spokesman has underscored that Afridi was providing "...assistance not against Pakistan, but against al-Qaeda..." And in an action designed more to inflict insult than injury, the Senate Appropriations Committee has voted unanimously to cut aid to Pakistan by $33 million - one for each year of Dr Afridi's sentence.
There appear to be several motives behind these actions. Some US officials appear stung by the appearance of America's having abandoned Afridi to his fate, and are concerned at the disincentive this could provide to others. But underlying such practical considerations is a far more profound moral indignation at the notion that Pakistan would want to punish someone for doing what to American eyes is clearly the right thing. From the American optic, if Pakistani officials are outraged that one of their own would attempt to aid America against al-Qaeda, isn't this yet more proof that Pakistan is aligned with the enemy?

The merits of the case aside, American cluelessness regarding Pakistani attitudes and the reasons for them is what is most disturbing in this entire affair. From the Pakistani viewpoint, the United States' obvious lack of trust in having declined to solicit their assistance in verifying bin Laden's presence in Abbottabad or in trying to effect his capture is a national insult. And in having launched a secret commando raid on Pakistani territory, in an Army town no less, the Americans have deftly turned insult into national humiliation. To a Pakistani, the notion that one of their nationals would have been complicit in these perceived outrages against their sovereignty is simply unforgiveable, no matter that his assistance was marginal at best - he apparently never did acquire the hoped-for DNA - and that he could certainly not have anticipated the nature of American actions to come.

Make no mistake, as this observer has asserted previously, the Americans had virtually no choice in acting unilaterally in Abbottabad. The state of distrust between the two countries and their intelligence services at the time, as well as the possibility of some level of official Pakistani complicity in bin Laden's safe keeping would have made it impossible for the Americans to bring Pakistan into their confidence. The great tragedy in this episode is that, given the importance attached to bin Laden, the US could not have acted other than as it did, regardless of the consequences. What is incomprehensible to me, however, is the apparent American expectation that Pakistanis would see the situation in the same way.

The case of Jonathan Pollard, a civilian employee of the US Department of Defence who provided Israeli intelligence with thousands of classified documents, may be different from the Afridi case in important respects. But as Israelis have pointed out, his espionage was purportedly aimed at helping an ally, not an enemy. And many in Israel would have considered the information Pollard acquired surreptitiously something which the US ought by rights to have provided them voluntarily. Indeed, Pollard is considered a hero in Israel, and successive Israeli governments have made high-profile attempts to win his release from prison.

But an American nationalist, such as this writer, is bound to see the situation in distinctly different terms. To me, Pollard is a traitor to his country who has violated the public trust, and is fully deserving of his punishment. The more Israeli officials have lobbied publicly on his behalf, the more those who think as I do have dug in their heels.
It should not be a surprise that Pakistani nationalists would feel similarly. It is a truism that the lines which divide political entities and cultures likewise divide the minds of men. Given their own nationalistic tendencies, it should not be so difficult for American officials now making over-heated public statements on Afridi's behalf to understand that in doing so they are not doing the good doctor any favours. One might hope that given time and quiet - repeat, quiet - diplomacy, it might be possible to relieve a bit player on the margins of grand historical events from the consequences of his being caught up as an unfortunate political symbol, but if US officials believe they will accomplish this through a combination of public brow-beating and financial blackmail, they should think again. And while they are at it, they might consider the fact that this is a strategic relationship with little margin for further gratuitous stress.

Robert Grenier is a retired, 27-year veteran of the CIA's Clandestine Service. He was Director of the CIA's Counter-Terrorism Center from 2004 to 2006.

Why do these guys like Dr. Scheuer and Grenier speak sense only after they retire?

[khushal]

Why do these guys like Dr. Scheuer and Grenier speak sense only after they retire?

they are barred from speaking while they are employed. it is against the law. Once they are no longer employed, they are free, but still cant reveal information that would jeopardize national security.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Afridi was allegedly sentenced for breaking the law by a tribal court. He also allegedly ran a fake vaccination program.

He still has yet to speak, and his part should be heard.

That's another topic and even that according to Islamic Law doesn't make him an apostate.

Let's stay focused here UnknownPrince.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Who did 9/11? Provide proof for your claims? Likewise who did the 2003 Iraq war? Provide proof for that too.

How do you define terrorism? What is terrorism?

Again neither have anything to do with whether Dr. Shakeel is an apostate, UnknownPrince, you retard

are you saying Bin Laden's soldiers have never killed Pashtuns?

[Afghanistan2010]

That's another topic and even that according to Islamic Law doesn't make him an apostate.

Let's stay focused here UnknownPrince.

Anyone who betrays the muslims is not from the muslims.

Those who plot against Allah and his Messenger (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him ) are to be declared as apostates.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Anyone who betrays the muslims is not from the muslims.

Those who plot against Allah and his Messenger (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him ) are to be declared as apostates.

Nothing that is discussed here can be evidence that he plotted against Allah(swt) and His Messenger (saw)

1.) Bin Laden was a criminal so he should be killed.

2.) lying about vaccinations, if it is true, no one has verified this is not defined as plotting against Allah(swt) or his messenger.


So he maybe a sinner, but if lying to Muslims alone makes one an apostate; then you and every other Taliban supporter are now Murtadeen since you lie and mislead Muslims everyday about the crimes of the Taliban, which is actually worse than what this man is ALLEGED to have done.

This guy helped save llves of Muslims; you destroy the lives of Muslims by helping the Taliban

Since you say that you live Belgium I will report you to Belgian authorities so they monitor you closely

[Afghanistan2010]

Nothing that is discussed here can be evidence that he plotted against Allah(swt) and His Messenger (saw)


1.) Bin Laden was a criminal so he should be killed.

I have doubts about his crimes,further who gave a criminial the right to kill another criminal,this is injustice.
How can you tell someone to stop killing someone,while your hands are blood tainted.

stil if it is proved that Bin Laden was a criminal,there are no rights in shariah to serve him to disbelievers,this is not allowed in shariah.

2.) lying about vaccinations, if it is true, no one has verified this is not defined as plotting against Allah(swt) or his messenger.

Prophet peace be upon him said
"He who deceives us is not one of us," or, "He is not one of us who deceives us." (Narrated by Muslim).



It can be verified through local sources,he acted against Allah and his Messenger (pbuh) and the believers.

So he maybe a sinner, but if lying to Muslims alone makes one an apostate; then you and every other Taliban supporter are now Murtadeen since you lie and mislead Muslims everyday about the crimes of the Taliban, which is actually worse than what this man is ALLEGED to have done.

This guy helped save llves of Muslims; you destroy the lives of Muslims by helping the Taliban

Since you say that you live Belgium I will report you to Belgian authorities so they monitor you closely

Whos lives where endangered,who were saved ?

you can report me to George Bush,his father and his mother.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I have doubts about his crimes,further who gave a criminial the right to kill another criminal,this is injustice.
How can you tell someone to stop killing someone,while your hands are blood tainted.

stil if it is proved that Bin Laden was a criminal,there are no rights in shariah to serve him to disbelievers,this is not allowed in shariah.

It is his duty actually

O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted. [4:135]


O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.[5:8]

Prophet peace be upon him said
"He who deceives us is not one of us," or, "He is not one of us who deceives us." (Narrated by Muslim).

If this hadith meant that lying makes someone an apostate, then why is there no hadd for lying, except in certain specific cases, like war.

It can be verified through local sources,he acted against Allah and his Messenger (pbuh) and the believers.

That's not good enough, lying about vaccination is not within the criteria. In fact for you to label him an apostate for this reason GOES against Shari'ah

Whos lives where endangered,who were saved ?

endangered? Just extremists who give Islam a bad name

saved? innocent Muslims, alhamdulilah.

you can report me to George Bush,his father and his mother.

Good you'll be happy finding a new Boyfriend in Belgian Prison lol

[Afghanistan2010]

It goes against Islam giving a muslim criminal into the hands of non muslims,you can talk as long the day is.

This criminal must be sentenced under shariah.

Your threats just make me happy,of how frightend you ,yourself are from speaking the truth.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

prove it from Qur'an and Hadith

also Bin Laden was a murtad, so he no longer counted as Muslim. So even then it wouldn't count against Dr. Shakeel

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Your threats just make me happy,of how frightend you ,yourself are from speaking the truth.

hahaha says the guy who wants to beat people and kill Dr. Shakeel.....it must mean you're upset that they're speaking the truth and that is why you want to threaten them?

Good you deserve the same, except they won't kill you just let you get raped in Belgian Prison LOL

[Afghanistan2010]

hahaha says the guy who wants to beat people and kill Dr. Shakeel.....it must mean you're upset that they're speaking the truth and that is why you want to threaten them?

Good you deserve the same, except they won't kill you just let you get raped in Belgian Prison LOL

You missunderstand the meaning of murtad,the person is not a disbeliever,second i do not seek death penality for Dr.Shakeel and i thank brother khushal,to wait with my accusations,until it is proven he worked against muslims.


But i agree saying,what such persons deserve to be proven their injustice as shown in the movie of salahudin (rah).

[Afghanistan2010]

prove it from Qur'an and Hadith

also Bin Laden was a murtad, so he no longer counted as Muslim. So even then it wouldn't count against Dr. Shakeel

It could be,it could be not that Bin Laden was an apostate.