Taliban denies killing member of Afghan peace council

[khushal]

No I am saying Taliban are in fact responsible for their actions against the Afghan populace; just as NATO are, not sure how you got the other thing from. I guess UnknownPrince has dumbed down our forum a bit.

that would be true if the taliban were a conventional army with centralized control and front lines were drawn. as you can see this is not the case here

[khushal]

what khushal? was afghanistan not already having unrest between the tribes before being invaded by foreigners? from what i read, pakistan had soldeirs in there, helping the taliban.

what are you blabbering about, what conflict between the tribes and do you know what a tribe is?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

that would be true if the taliban were a conventional army with centralized control and front lines were drawn. as you can see this is not the case here

It's true regardless of being a conventional army or not; Otherwise Mullah Umar is a terrible leader.

[khushal]

Those villagers make the bulk of the insurgency and exactly why US/NATO mission is a huge failure. The ideological Taliban are a few and without the thousands of average Pashtuns support they can't move a rock. Due to the idiocy of the occupiers and their crimes against the local people the Taliban resurgence was possible because of these aggrieved Pashtun masses in the East and South. The continuation of US/NATO and Afghan government failure has also caused resentment in Northern and Western areas.

The moderates (average Afghan local commander and villager) are in majority and not the ideological Taliban backbone.

This war is a failure for those who want the occupation to continue and those who want the occupiers to leave. As long as the occupation continues crimes against the natives will be committed. In return the insurgency will continue. In return counter insurgency will continue. It's a complete circle.

hit it right on the nail. the occupiers are responsible for all the violence, if they cant bring security to the country, then they should do the ethical thing and leave and let the afghans dook it out until one side comes out victorous. take out the catalyst to break the circle.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Resistance statements would only be true if the Taliban werent butchering Afghans before the NATO invasion.

[khushal]

It's true regardless of being a conventional army or not; Otherwise Mullah Umar is a terrible leader.

its not true according to international law. we are going here by what the law states not by what you state

[khushal]

Resistance statements would only be true if the Taliban werent butchering Afghans before the NATO invasion.

so your justifying the invasion to stop the butchering as a just invasion

[RevolutionThroughReason]

its not true according to international law. we are going here by what the law states not by what you state

I'm going what Islam states not what some made up law by the kufars state.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

so your justifying the invasion to stop the butchering as a just invasion

No I'm once again reiterating for you since you're a little on the slow side, NATO is responsible for their crimes; the Taliban for theirs.

[khushal]

I'm going what Islam states not what some made up law by the kufars state.

this law does not contradict Islam.

[khushal]

No I'm once again reiterating for you since you're a little on the slow side, NATO is responsible for their crimes; the Taliban for theirs.

red herring and circular

your argument is flawed.
You originally said the above statement then I stated that international law states the occupier is responsible for the security of the occupied and you said that the taliban were butchering people before the invasion so your justifying the invasion and then you back track and go back to your original statment.

unless you have the ability to change internatioanl law, then you have lost the argument.

[R3SISTANC3]

Resistance statements would only be true if the Taliban werent butchering Afghans before the NATO invasion.

From what I have heard and experienced the Talibs brought long awaited security and sense of governance in Afghanistan. They are not perfect or far from it but what else do you expect from a nation that seen a brutal invasion by then superpower and following a bloody civil war.

People give the Taliban too much credit and also expect too much from them.

You can judge the Taliban character from the fact that even though there is this modern government installed in Kabul backed by the richest countries in the world these Talibs still have great support. It seems they weren't that bad after all if they can hold up 10 years against 140 nations. Those 140 nations include some of the most civilized and technologically advanced countries on earth.

[khushal]

From what I have heard and experienced the Talibs brought long awaited security and sense of governance in Afghanistan. They are not perfect or far from it but what else do you expect from a nation that seen a brutal invasion by then superpower and following a bloody civil war.

People give the Taliban too much credit and also expect too much from them.

You can judge the Taliban character from the fact that even though there is this modern government installed in Kabul backed by the richest countries in the world these Talibs still have great support. It seems they weren't that bad after all if they can hold up 10 years against 140 nations. Those 140 nations include some of the most civilized and technologically advanced countries on earth.

most of afghanistan was taken over by the taliban without a fight. the only resistance came from panjshir and mazar. Revolution is under the illusion that Afghanistan was hunky dory before the big bad talib came intot the picture and started slaughtering. the slaughtering was happening way before the taliban came in.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

red herring and circular

your argument is flawed.
You originally said the above statement then I stated that international law states the occupier is responsible for the security of the occupied and you said that the taliban were butchering people before the invasion so your justifying the invasion and then you back track and go back to your original statment.

unless you have the ability to change internatioanl law, then you have lost the argument.

Ok reread this .....and if anyone is making circular red herrings here it would be you; how does saying that NATO and the Taliban are equally responsible for the problems in Afghanistan today equal to saying that the Taliban's crimes justify invasion. two totally different things.
One does not follow from the other; so it's a nonsequittur on your part
furthermore the Taliban committing crimes was to demonstrate that the violence of the Taliban is their own fault; not someone else's; no one ever said it's the rule to fight back by murdering their own people; they chose to do that, NATO's violence is their own fault.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

From what I have heard and experienced the Talibs brought long awaited security and sense of governance in Afghanistan. They are not perfect or far from it but what else do you expect from a nation that seen a brutal invasion by then superpower and following a bloody civil war.

People give the Taliban too much credit and also expect too much from them.

You can judge the Taliban character from the fact that even though there is this modern government installed in Kabul backed by the richest countries in the world these Talibs still have great support. It seems they weren't that bad after all if they can hold up 10 years against 140 nations. Those 140 nations include some of the most civilized and technologically advanced countries on earth.

That's in the beginning the first four months; you need to look at what they did afterwards. when a government claims to be representig the standards and edicts of Islam; you bet we expect a lot for them; if they can't live up to those expectatons they should STOP saying they represent Shari'ah or Islam; if they said they're just a secular group blinding by emotions and impulse; we wouldnt expect as much. But once they use Islam's name; it raises the bar high

like it or not.