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Bar Kochba, Messianism, and the Insurgency

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  • Bar Kochba, Messianism, and the Insurgency

    When I saw Maiwand's initial post the other day about the Mehidism... I thought history may be repeating its cycles yet again... or is it???:

    Watch this video:
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient...holy-land.html

    I promise you will not regret it.

    I try my best to read on history and conflict since it holds many lessons for those willing to listen.

    So Scimitar and I have discussed the veracity of Pape's work. Pape's conclusions are that the tactics that the insurgency utilizes for asymmetric war have historically secured short term gains but not realized the long term objective.

    There may be some historical validity to Pape's conclusion and some eerie similarity to Roman-Israeli conflict in the era of Hadrian.

    In the early AD era, a series of anti Roman insurgencies were launched. The most famous leader of these insurgencies was Simon Bar Kochba. Bar Kochba had the following strategy:

    1) Initiate a guerilla insurgency against the Romans
    2) Utilize religious doctrine to validate initiating this
    3) Force the portion of the population that is sitting on the sidelines to take a side and join the war against the Roman Empire/Hadrian
    4) Do all of the above by attacking the center of Roman Power in Jerusalem.
    5) Utilize the fact that the holiest site in Judaism was the Temple in Jerusalem and capitalize on the anti Roman sentiment that was brewing secondary to the Empire's interventionalism in the Holy Land itself.
    6) Bog the Romans down in a war of attrition against an enemy that new the land

    All of this sounding familiar yet?

    So here was core group within religous Jews that sought to break the Roman's hold in the land of Bani Israel.

    1) A larger segment of the religious Jewish population viewed Bar Kochba as unnecessarily "rocking the boat"
    2) Bar Kochba was doing his best to undo the pervading sense of Jewish Defeatism after centuries of captivities, losses, and being a conquered people.

    We know 1) now after centuries of mainly Jewish oral legend that depicted Bar Kochba as a Jewish Military Hero that rose up against oppression.

    Now based on the discovery of Bar Kochba's own letters discovered in the caves that the insurgents hid in, a different picture emerges:

    1) Bar Kochba strongly believed God was with him
    2) He was a micro manager and used the written word to coordinate various commanders
    3) He felt a lack of support from the general population and castigated the Jews that were not helping him.
    4) His small term gains from his lightening raids that resulted in many dead on his own sides and rattled the Romans ended up securing short term gains and long term losses.
    5) Bar Kochba, like Hannibal was eventually caught by the Romans and killed.

    The outcome of Bar Kochba's revolt was punishing Roman Yolk that would last until Omar Bin Al Khattab would eventually seize Jerusalem and allow the Jews to return to Jerusalem.

    It would be 2 millenia until Jewish Power would finally rise again in the modern era in the form of Israel.

    God alone knows the outcomes of things and is the author if history and its surprises between Spartans and Persians. However, now superimposing history's lessons over the modern era... one wonders how all of this will play out.
    The goal of the modern insurgency, per Michael Scheuer, is to spread the Americans thin and drain them militarily (spread thin) and economically while reenergizing a Muslim world plagued with a defeatist attitude.

    The major difference though between the Romans and the Pax Americana is that the Romans, in the words of Tacitus used to:
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tacitus
    "Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant"

    The last part of this quote indicates that to face the Romans meant utter annihilation and expectation of destruction. "They created a desolation and called it peace" ---> they destroyed anything that moved and the silence was peaceful.

    Examine the fate of Hannibal:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal#cite_note-51

    Carthage was destroyed utterly and burned to the ground.

    Even Khalid Bin Walid, when he took on the Roman War Machine, had to drag the Romans into the desert and only rose the command of the Muslim Army after many senior commanders died against the war machine.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt

    The outcome of this Bar Kochba revolt was that 580,000 Jews were killed by Hadrians forces and:

    "The disastrous end of the revolt also occasioned major changes in Jewish religious thought. Messianism was abstracted and spiritualized, and rabbinical political thought became deeply cautious and conservative. The Talmud, for instance, refers to Bar-Kokhba as "Ben-Kusiba", a derogatory term used to indicate that he was a false Messiah."

    And of course Caeser's years long fight against the Gaul tribes in an insurgency led by Vercengitorix
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_Wars
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vercingetorix

    Was a eventually a disasterous defeat for the tribes and Caeser made sure they knew it. Their leader was led in chains to Rome and eventually made an example of.

    Now the Americans on the other hand have generally not won a war after World War 2... per their own military historians... not per me. In World War 2, they went Roman and made sure that the enemy knew it was defeated.

    Generally, since then Americans do not decimate their enemy immediately and far more conscious of world opinion. One General said that their enemies do not understand that they have been defeated... implying that the "gloves" werent allowed to come off. This has resulted in a series of discussions about the Rules of Engagement.

    So what shall come in the decades ahead will be truly historical... its like a coin has been flipped and it landed on its side, waiting to fall. Will the insurgency

    1) End like Bar Kochba's as Pape's data predicts
    2) Carve out new lessons in history for subsequent generations.

    God knows best, not me.
    Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 05-13-2012, 12:23 AM.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

  • #2
    The very term insurgency implies that there is a legitimate government in place. In regards to Afghanistan, this is not the case as Karzai's regime is not legitimate since there is a foreign occupation.

    Before Robert Gates left office, he said that any Defense Secretary who said that there should be another land war in Asia should get their head examined. This came a few days after he made comments on Afghanistan, and many said it was his indirect hint to the next defense secretary. For the record, Robert Gates was never really enthusiastic about the war in Afghanistan in the first place.


    In regards to messianic themes, I dont think the Taliban have said their leader is the Mahdi. However, the historical precedent is there in the Sudan. In the 1800s, a villager rose up against the British, and successively won the independence of Sudan. He later faded away, and people generally forgot his claim as being the Mahdi

    Suakin 1885

    The British also sent an expeditionary force under Lt-Gen Sir Gerald Graham, including an Indian contingent, to Suakin in March 1885. It became known as the Suakin Expedition. Although it was successful in the two actions it fought, it failed to change the military situation and was withdrawn.[32] These events temporarily ended British and Egyptian involvement in Sudan, which passed completely under the control of the Mahdists.
    Mahdist period




    During the Iraq war, the Shiite Mahdi army also invoked messianism themes when it was reported to the media that some of the fighters had seen the ghost of Sayyidna Ali (ra) in Najaf.

    I guess it was a way for them to draw their inspiration. In any case, Iraq is an independent country to some degree today.

    Comment


    • #3
      One can not compare America with Rome for several reasons. Back in those times, the Romans would fight insurgencies that were within the confines of what was the Roman Empire. There had been stability before, but the insurgency randomly one day just broke out (all the insurgency)

      This is what the US wants Pakistan to help them do in regards to Afghanistan and continuous request for Waziristan operations . However, blaming some supposed safe haven for failure in Afghanistan is nonsensical because according to a classified report by Lt. Davis, majority of the country is under the control of the Afghan insurgency anyways.

      Pakistan did try that under Musharraf back in 2004 and were defeated, suffering over 5000 Pakistani soldier casualties before signing a peace deal. They then tried this again in 2009 only to be defeated yet again and sign another peace deal.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by lynx View Post
        The very term insurgency implies that there is a legitimate government in place. In regards to Afghanistan, this is not the case as Karzai's regime is not legitimate since there is a foreign occupation.

        Before Robert Gates left office, he said that any Defense Secretary who said that there should be another land war in Asia should get their head examined. This came a few days after he made comments on Afghanistan, and many said it was his indirect hint to the next defense secretary. For the record, Robert Gates was never really enthusiastic about the war in Afghanistan in the first place.


        In regards to messianic themes, I dont think the Taliban have said their leader is the Mahdi. However, the historical precedent is there in the Sudan. In the 1800s, a villager rose up against the British, and successively won the independence of Sudan. He later faded away, and people generally forgot his claim as being the Mahdi

        Suakin 1885

        The British also sent an expeditionary force under Lt-Gen Sir Gerald Graham, including an Indian contingent, to Suakin in March 1885. It became known as the Suakin Expedition. Although it was successful in the two actions it fought, it failed to change the military situation and was withdrawn.[32] These events temporarily ended British and Egyptian involvement in Sudan, which passed completely under the control of the Mahdists.
        Mahdist period

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdist_War


        During the Iraq war, the Shiite Mahdi army also invoked messianism themes when it was reported to the media that some of the fighters had seen the ghost of Sayyidna Ali (ra) in Najaf.

        I guess it was a way for them to draw their inspiration. In any case, Iraq is an independent country to some degree today.
        Thanks

        Ill have to read on that as the British left lots of info behind on their successes and failures.
        "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

        Comment


        • #5
          I remember this distinctly from a history course, and I believe it is the only time in the Muslim world, where a man successfully was able to rally people around him into believing he was the Mahdi, and then drive the British out of Sudan. In that regard from a strategic point of view, it was remarkable because as we know in the Muslim world, it is a very delicate issue for someone to claim to be Mahdi.

          In any case, it does provide us the one example where messianism was used successfully. In reality and from a social point of view, it was expected.

          Many Persian Shiite princes/Kings/Emperors have claimed to be Mahdi for political reasons too. In fact, if I am not mistaken I think there was a case where first a Persian King claimed to be Mahdi and failed in rallying people around him, and then his son later in life claimed to be Mahdi too. Although my memory is hazy about this story.

          In general, the Mahdi claimants have been largely associated with Shiism and Iran/Iraq in general.

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