Senators spurn Iran’s request on strategic pact

[Shah-i-Kot]

Better doesn't than bad doesn't necessarily mean "good"; use some common sense please UnknownPrince.

Saudi Arabia does NOT serve Western Hegemony? .....So what are all those bases doing in KSA?

I dont know who UnknownPrince is? Maybe you need to stop being paranoid

There are no US bases in Saudi Arabia anymore.

You say Iran should rule parts of the Muslim world.

Clearly preference .

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Saudi Arabia did not send suicide bombers to Iraq. Thats a claim that is refuted by research by many, including Dr. Pape. Its refuted. According to Dr. Pape, this extreme actions were due to the occupation of Iraq by the US.

oh yeah I remember that Dr. Pape thing, he didn't really refute anything; he used what's called a "correlation implies causation" fallacy.

What he did is exactly the opposite of a proof.

Suicide attacks are in fact due to Saudi Arabia....because for a suicide attack to happen there needs to be an idea that such a tactic is legitimate in the first place? Well one asks, where does that idea even come from? Well the answer is Saudi Arabia

if you had just said the occupation leads to MORE resistance that I agree. But it's the STYLE and METHOD of ALLEGED resistance that is being taken into account here. That METHOD is not merely an act of resistance but an influence motivated.

Let's do a statistical study of suicide bombers and which scholars they cite as affirming their belief in suicide attacks. We can say for certain those scholars are generally Saudis. heh.

[Shah-i-Kot]

About the US exit from Saudi Arabia.

Its old news. The Saudi clergy forced the issue.

It was not widely publicized because it was not good press for Western hegemony. This happened in 2003. I heard about it from some PhD student a few years ago when i asked. There arent even "trainers" anymore. The article here is from 2003.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2984547.stm

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I dont know who UnknownPrince is? Maybe you need to stop being paranoid

There are no US bases in Saudi Arabia anymore.

You say Iran should rule parts of the Muslim world.

Clearly preference .

You'e unknownprince, and I know you are because Moderators like Randolph85, who can see your IP address confirm you're UnknownPrince, so no need to pretend.

Just be yourself.


yes I believe Iran should rule over Arab countries like Saudi Arabia, there would be no American bases in KSA if Iran ruled, would you agree?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

About the US exit from Saudi Arabia.

Its old news. The Saudi clergy forced the issue.

It was not widely publicized because it was not good press for Western hegemony. This happened in 2003. I heard about it from some PhD student a few years ago when i asked. There arent even "trainers" anymore. The article here is from 2003.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2984547.stm

Current deployment

As of 2011, the 64th Air Expeditionary Group is stationed in Eskan Village.

[Shah-i-Kot]

oh yeah I remember that Dr. Pape thing, he didn't really refute anything; he used what's called a "correlation implies causation" fallacy.

What he did is exactly the opposite of a proof.

Suicide attacks are in fact due to Saudi Arabia....because for a suicide attack to happen there needs to be an idea that such a tactic is legitimate in the first place? Well one asks, where does that idea even come from? Well the answer is Saudi Arabia

if you had just said the occupation leads to MORE resistance that I agree. But it's the STYLE and METHOD of ALLEGED resistance that is being taken into account here. That METHOD is not merely an act of resistance but an influence motivated.

Let's do a statistical study of suicide bombers and which scholars they cite as affirming their belief in suicide attacks. We can say for certain those scholars are generally Saudis. heh.

Your going into an irrelevant discussion. I am simply pointing out what Dr. Pape's research confirms. These acts are simply due to a foreign occupation.

The Tamil Tigers (non-Muslims) also engage in this too.

We are not discussing whether it is right or wrong.

Iran also permitted suicide missions in their war with Iraq (Basij), so it was flawed of you to draw a difference between Iran and Saudi Arabia on this issue.


Im simply saying what Dr. Pape is- that these actions are the result of foreign intervention. It has nothing at all to do with religion. (Tamil Tigers)

[Shah-i-Kot]

Current deployment

As of 2011, the 64th Air Expeditionary Group is stationed in Eskan Village.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/22/international/middleeast/22SAUD.html

There are no US forces stationed in Saudi Arabia. No combat troops and trainers. There are US forces stationed at the Embassy, but thats the case with all their embassies around the world.

this is a fact. It is a fact, that they have been using drones from their, and thats with Saudi Arabian involvement.

In that regard, Saudi Arabia has been coopperating with them, and have kept this news on the down low.


However, I doubt that will remain unchanged.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/22/in...st/22SAUD.html


There are no US forces stationed in Saudi Arabia. No combat troops and trainers. There are US forces stationed at the Embassy, but thats the case with all their embassies around the world.

this is a fact.

Ok keep living in denial then.


Fact is there is no U.S. Military presence and Iran would never have even allowed it on their soil. The Saudis did. and the Saudis are allies with America.

http://www.cfr.org/saudi-arabia/saudi-arabia-remains-indispensable-us-ally-argues-new-cfr-book/p27072

Saudi Arabia Remains Indispensable U.S. Ally, Argues New CFR Book
January 13, 2012


Saudi Arabia on the Edge
by Thomas W. Lippman
January 2012
As the United States confronts a volatile Middle East, Saudi Arabia is "a central player—sometimes in accord with U.S. policy, sometimes not—in Arab-Israeli peace negotiations, in the quest for stability in Iraq, in Persian Gulf regional security issues focusing on Iran, and in the global struggle to promote a peaceful vision of Islam over jihadist violence," writes Thomas Lippman in a new book, Saudi Arabia on the Edge: The Uncertain Future of an American Ally.

Being allies is not exactly rejection western hegemony

[Shah-i-Kot]

I certainly agree that Iran and Iranians are one of the most fiercely independent people in the region, next to Pashtuns. The two are only at logger heads due to one being Shiite and the other being Sunni.

I am not saying that Saudis have not been supporting Western hegemony, but not in the manner in which you are saying.

They have somewhat of a monopoly over oil, and the regime can not do anything at all to the clergy. There have been many cases where the clergy openly criticize and rebuke the royal family.

Hence, the royal family is held at bay by the clergy.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Your going into an irrelevant discussion. I am simply pointing out what Dr. Pape's research confirms. These acts are simply due to a foreign occupation.

The Tamil Tigers (non-Muslims) also engage in this too.

We are not discussing whether it is right or wrong.

Iran also permitted suicide missions in their war with Iraq (Basij), so it was flawed of you to draw a difference between Iran and Saudi Arabia on this issue.


Im simply saying what Dr. Pape is- that these actions are the result of foreign intervention. It has nothing at all to do with religion. (Tamil Tigers)

But Pape's research DOESN"T confirm that; It's a Correlation Is Causation Fallacy. So you're simply stating a logical fallacy made by Pape


I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that Iraqi Suicide bombers cite the Tamil Tigers as an influence for why they suicide bomb. Let's be realistic here.

Pape is wrong , resistance is due to occupation; suicide bombing is due to Saudi scholars. Which shows that suicide attacks really have very little to do with resistance.

do you understand the distinction?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/22/in...st/22SAUD.html


There are no US forces stationed in Saudi Arabia. No combat troops and trainers. There are US forces stationed at the Embassy, but thats the case with all their embassies around the world.

.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64th_Air_Expeditionary_Group

did they keep this on the downlow too?

Active 3 July 1952 – 30 September 1997
23 September 2005 – present
Country United States
Branch United States Air Force
Garrison/HQ Eskan Village, Saudi Arabia
Motto Hardest Target in the Kingdom
Engagements


World War II
European-Mediterranean Campaign (1942–1945)
Asiatic-Pacific Campaign (1944)
Vietnam Service (1966–1967)
Global War on Terrorism (2005-TBD)
Campaigns (TBD)

[Shah-i-Kot]

Well according to this foreign exchange student, there is no longer an occupation there, but it does appear than that the Saudi government is probably lying in that regard.


In regards to Dr. Pape's research, it is evidence for his conclusions that suicide bombings occur due to an occupation. This has nothing to do with "correlation does not imply causation." He compiled DATA, and its your job to digest it. Its DATA, not made up stats.


I pointed out the Tamil Tigers use of suicide bombing to emphasize to you that it has nothing to do with religion, or religious doctrine. Dr. Pape points out that the most suicide bombings were conducted by Tamil Tigers ( a non-religious group).


Again, Im relaying to you what Dr. Pape research shows.


We can bring up that thread if you want to look at it again. The thread BA posted many months ago.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Well according to this foreign exchange student, there is no longer an occupation there, but it does appear than that the Saudi government is probably lying in that regard.


In regards to Dr. Pape's research, it is evidence for his conclusions that suicide bombings occur due to an occupation. This has nothing to do with "correlation does not imply causation." He compiled DATA, and its your job to digest it. Its DATA, not made up stats.


I pointed out the Tamil Tigers use of suicide bombing to emphasize to you that it has nothing to do with religion, or religious doctrine. Dr. Pape points out that the most suicide bombings were conducted by Tamil Tigers ( a non-religious group).


Again, Im relaying to you what Dr. Pape research shows.


We can bring up that thread if you want to look at it again. The thread BA posted many months ago.

But it is faulty reasoning because there was also an influx of Saudi backed Militants after the Occupation. So the Occupation also let Saudi Militants in which corresponds and explains the the pathology of suicide bombing

I understand you're relying on Pape's research; but Pape's research ignores other variables.

a.) where the suicide attackers get the idea that suicide bombing is permissible method of fighting
b.) the influx of foreign militants, namely from Jordan and Saudi Arabia.
c.) the rise of Wahhabist influence.
d.) why the Anbar Sunnis who were fighting the Americans never used suicide attacks; but once suicide attacks and such gain precedence in Iraq, why they started helping the Americans instead?



All he can say for sure is resistance increases; everything else is faulty.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Yes Wahhabiyah did come to Iraq, but Iraqis for the most part rejected it; because there is a large Sufi tradition in Iraq especially around Baghdad, Samarra and Fallujah, they belong to the Qadiriyah Sufi tradition.

So it was suppressed, but through modern Saudi influence they became more prominent during the Occupation because now there were less restrictions on their entrance.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/understanding-anbar-awakening_524770.html

At the height of the Iraqi insurgency, Dr. Thamer al-Assafi, a former Iraqi commando combat veteran of the Iran-Iraq war who later served as a cleric and a faculty member at Al-Anbar University, turned against “foreign Arabs” who attempted to control the local mosques. The power grab by outsiders prompted al-Assafi and likeminded clerics to use their sermons to incite fellow Anbaris against al Qaeda in Iraq. For this, he explains, “We lost many innocent people. Some of them were loaded down with blocks and put in the river. Some of them were taken out to the desert and beheaded.”

I wonder who these "ajnabiyeen" were? Maybe Saudis?