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  • With Kabul Attack, Taliban Counter Obama's Message


    • Updated May 2, 2012, 1:21 p.m. ET

    With Kabul Attack, Taliban Counter Obama's Message



    more in World ยป





    By DION NISSENBAUM

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    Musadeq Sadeq/Associated Press Smoke comes out from a compound after it was attacked by militants in Kabul, Wednesday.



    KABUL—In the early hours of Wednesday, President Barack Obama delivered a simple message during a surprise visit to America's largest military base in Afghanistan: The United States will not allow this country to once again be overrun by Islamic hard-liners.
    Two hours later, as Mr. Obama flew back to the U.S., at least four insurgents stormed the main gate of a compound on Kabul's outskirts that houses some 2,000 Westerners, according to Afghan and Western officials. With mortars, machine guns, hand grenades, suicide vests and a car bomb, they killed at least seven people, Afghan police said.
    A Taliban spokesman said the attack was hastily planned in response to the president's visit, serving as a stark reminder of the challenges that remain in cementing Mr. Obama's goal after 10 years of war here. The partnership deal signed by Mr. Obama and President Hamid Karzai on this trip seals America's commitment to Afghanistan, outlining a 10-year relationship between the sides after most American troops withdraw in 2014.
    But the two leaders face hurdles in ensuring that an end to U.S.-led combat missions next year won't allow a resurgent Taliban to reclaim control of the country.
    Militants Attack Kabul Compound

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    Musadeq Sadeq/Associated Press Taliban insurgents armed with mortars, machine guns, grenades and suicide vests killed at least six people Wednesday in an attack on a fortified Kabul compound that's home to hundreds of Westerners.





    Mr. Obama must still get public and congressional backing for the unpopular prospect of spending billions of dollars a year to prop up Afghan security forces. Also, over the course of the next 12 months, the two nations must hammer out a more difficult agreement to define the sensitive role of American military forces in the country.
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    Underscoring the challenges, Mr. Karzai told his top security officials after Mr. Obama's departure to disregard American intelligence if they aren't sure about the information themselves, according to a statement from the presidential palace.
    Western diplomats say they still harbor deep reservations about Mr. Karzai's commitment to peacefully yielding political power in 2014, when his last constitutionally permissible term ends. The U.S. and Pakistan also remain at loggerheads over Afghan insurgent sanctuaries tolerated on Pakistani soil.
    U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker, the diplomat who spearheaded the difficult strategic talks with the Afghans, said Wednesday that the 10-year plan signed by Mr. Obama was intended, in part, to send a message to Pakistan.
    "I would hope that Pakistan would take a look at this agreement and say, 'Whoa, the Americans are not going to cut and run this time. We don't need to hedge our bets,' " he told reporters at the U.S. Embassy.
    Should the diplomatic message fail, Mr. Crocker indicated that the agreement keeps open the possibility that the U.S. could seek to use military bases in Afghanistan to launch deadly drone strikes on Pakistan-based insurgents. That is likely to fuel resentment in Pakistan, where drone strikes have whipped up extreme anti-American sentiments.
    "Attacks planned and launched from Pakistan target civilians, international forces and Afghan security forces, and we have the right under the United Nations charter to respond to those attacks—and we will," Mr. Crocker said.
    While the Taliban claimed responsibility for staging Wednesday's early morning attack in Kabul, Mr. Crocker said he didn't rule out the involvement of the Haqqani Network, an autonomous Taliban ally based in Pakistan that has been linked to most of the high-profile attacks on the Afghan capital.
    At least seven people, including two Afghan schoolchildren, were killed in the attack on a fortified compound on the outskirts of Kabul that houses 2,000 Western development specialists, United Nations officials, European Union police trainers and U.S. Department of Defense contractors.
    The Taliban said it dispatched the militants as a warning to Mr. Obama that his long-term pledge to Afghanistan's government won't deter them.
    "This delivers a message to President Obama that he is not welcome in Afghanistan," said Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid. "When he is in Afghanistan, we want him to hear the sound of explosions. Afghanistan does not want his imposed strategy."
    Mr. Mujahid, the Taliban spokesman, said insurgents organized the assault Tuesday night after learning from leaked reports in the Afghan media that Mr. Obama was coming to Afghanistan.
    At the time, even as news of the president's visit spread through social-networking sites like Twitter, some U.S. officials tried to quash the reports.
    After Mr. Obama's visit became public, officials from the U.S. Embassy in Kabul defended the initial denial, saying the president wasn't yet technically in Afghanistan when the local media reported on his impending arrival.
    During Wednesday's attack, residents of the compound, many of them security consultants, rushed to defend Green Village as others sought safety behind bunkers. Windows inside the facility were blown out and one building was set on fire during the clash.
    Eyewitnesses said the insurgents used burqas to conceal their weapons and at around 6:15 a.m. Wednesday drove up to the front gate of Green Village, where they detonated a car bomb that blew down the main gate and left a huge crater in the street.
    At least two insurgents entered the compound and took over a laundry and maintenance building, said Charles T. Dillon, the U.S.-based attorney for Green Village.
    Afghan special police forces, aided by Norwegian military mentors, rushed to the scene and ended the attack after more than three hours.
    Mr. Crocker characterized the attack as a feeble attempt to strike a psychological blow to the U.S.-Afghan partnership.
    "It was not exactly a significant military attack," he said. "This is not Tet 3. If this is the best they can do, they are not exactly winning this war."
    Mr. Crocker and a cross-section of Afghan leaders said the attack wouldn't undermine the strength of the new partnership.
    The deal cements Afghanistan as a "major non-NATO ally" of the U.S., a designation—shared by Pakistan and Israel, among others—meant to signify the country's role as an important strategic ally of the U.S. It states that the U.S. doesn't want permanent military bases in Afghanistan but rather that U.S. forces will rely on Afghan bases to stage missions to fight any remaining al Qaeda forces in the region and train Afghan troops. It didn't, however, specify funding or troop levels
    Khalid Pashtoon, a lawmaker from Afghanistan's southern Kandahar province, described the signing as a "good day" for Afghanistan and said the pact provides "a really new start" for both Afghanistan and the U.S.-led coalition.
    Wahid Taqat, director of the Afghanistan Academic and Strategic Research Center, said the agreement could be used as new leverage to compel Taliban fighters to negotiate a peaceful end to their decade-long effort to topple the Karzai government.
    "If the government uses this as a tool in psychological war against the enemy that Afghanistan will not be abandoned and there still be American presence in Afghanistan, this will make people approach the government," he said. "Pakistan and Iran have been benefiting from Afghan war for three decades. This agreement warns them to stop interfering in Afghanistan's affairs."
    —Nathan Hodge, Ziaulhaq Sultani and Habib Khan Totakhil contributed to this article.

  • #2
    As I guessed all the grandstanding and signing ceremonies were specifically aimed at "sending a message" to Afghans and the regional countries. What message can be sent by signing a pact with a lame duck/puppet? I mean everyone knew Karzai was going to sign a pact with the US, India, Germany, etc.

    Well, if you look at how angry this dude is below, it actually all starts to become quite a laugh

    "U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker, the diplomat who spearheaded the difficult strategic talks with the Afghans, said Wednesday that the 10-year plan signed by Mr. Obama was intended, in part, to send a message to Pakistan.
    "I would hope that Pakistan would take a look at this agreement and say, 'Whoa, the Americans are not going to cut and run this time. We don't need to hedge our bets,' " he told reporters at the U.S. Embassy.
    Should the diplomatic message fail, Mr. Crocker indicated that the agreement keeps open the possibility that the U.S. could seek to use military bases in Afghanistan to launch deadly drone strikes on Pakistan-based insurgents. That is likely to fuel resentment in Pakistan, where drone strikes have whipped up extreme anti-American sentiments.
    "Attacks planned and launched from Pakistan target civilians, international forces and Afghan security forces, and we have the right under the United Nations charter to respond to those attacks—and we will,"
    Mr. Crocker said."


    So when is NATO going have a war with Pakistan? If it is true that Pakistan is the cause for the failure that is the NATO war, then why all the talk?

    He sounds like a 10 year old kid having a temper tantrum.

    So Pakistan (who has been supporting the NATO war/Karzai regime with NATO supply routes), ONE OF THE MOST corrupt countries in teh world is behind every single insurgency there ever was, the Egyptian Revolution, Syrian Revolution, Bahraini Revolution??


    Lose in Afghanistan, sign a pact with a puppet, and then blame China or Mars for failure

    LOL
    Last edited by Shah-i-Kot; 05-02-2012, 03:18 PM.

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    • #3
      the same reason the soviets never attacked pakistan, its simply not worth it.

      also, if the talibans counter message was killing afghan civilians, they almost deserve to be defeated.
      There are people today who think that admitting Godโ€™s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of Godโ€™s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

      Sayyid Qutb

      Comment


      • #4
        this is damage from the attack, area of the bombed out car doesn't exactly look like some heavily fortified base, it looks like a housing complex on the side of a road. so yes, common sense dictates that when you set off a car bomb on a city street, civilians will die. notice the car is not inside the complex but on the road.





        There are people today who think that admitting Godโ€™s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of Godโ€™s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

        Sayyid Qutb

        Comment


        • #5
          and if this was some large base where civilians were not allowed as you are suggesting, afghan civilians and kids would not be allowed to walk around the wreckage at the base like they are doing in this picture.



          There are people today who think that admitting Godโ€™s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of Godโ€™s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

          Sayyid Qutb

          Comment


          • #6
            common sense. its a powerful thing ya'll.
            There are people today who think that admitting Godโ€™s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of Godโ€™s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

            Sayyid Qutb

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shadowgoverner
              those isnt a housing complex my dear common sense guy.
              civilian homes arent allowd near such places,use common sense.

              this is evidence of civilian killings

              then what is it? it certainly isn't a military base, because as i have pointed out this is on the side of a city road in kabul. what do civilian homes have to do with it? these are businesses, shops, and all kinds of crap all around kabul away from peoples homes so that has nothing to do with it. there are no military bases in the city on the side of public roads and most are in the south near darulaman, and certainly none where afghan civilians can wander around like i have shown in these pictures.

              and i don't know what you are trying to prove with that picture. nato is a satanic beast, i already know this. this does not excuse the negligence in taliban attacks that put civilians in harms way.
              There are people today who think that admitting Godโ€™s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of Godโ€™s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

              Sayyid Qutb

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by shadowgoverner
                this is on kabul to jalalabad road not inside the city.

                with the picture i want to show you,how can these are civilian casualties with evidence.
                or do you want me to believe what ever a reporter or better yet foreign soldier official says?
                rememeber in the report it says only civilians were killed.


                you of all people are asking for evidence when you believe grand taliban claims of foreign casualties with 0 evidence? countless thousands have been killed by the foreigners in the country but we don't see thousands of pictures of dead bodies. the thing is that i have seen a lot of pictures of dead civilians, but i haven't seen pictures of dead soldiers that the taliban claim and nato denies.

                here is a quote from the talib spokesman taking responsibility and claiming heavy casualties on the enemy side.

                “One of our mujahideen detonated his car in front of a military base. Other mujahideen are inside the base fighting. There are very heavy casualties for the enemy,” Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told Reuters in a phone call.
                http://www.firstpost.com/world/six-d...ty-295029.html


                by looking at the pictures, and the mountain in the background, this is within the city limits. you don't have kids and other civilians walking around in the rural kabul-jbad road, or other infrastructure like buildings or power lines.

                Deadly blasts hit Afghan capital after Obama's visit - YouTube


                also, i don't know why you are debating semantics of where the attack was when the taliban have also claimed attacks such as the car bombing at the indian embassy in the heart of the city a few years ago and obviously the most recent attack a few weeks ago.
                There are people today who think that admitting Godโ€™s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of Godโ€™s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                Sayyid Qutb

                Comment


                • #9
                  also, in the video you see destroyed cars of passerby's near the crater. as we know by the looks of it, those cars are common in kabul and certainly not the kind of cars that foreigners drive in. the dumbass bomber didn't even wait for the cars to pass before detonating.
                  There are people today who think that admitting Godโ€™s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of Godโ€™s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                  Sayyid Qutb

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    so to believe with my own eyes that the other cars that are destroyed at the site which are common for kabulis to drive, and not foreigners, that have been destroyed on the site of the blast had civilians in them is not common sense?

                    what is not common sense is to believe grand claims of foreign deaths with absolutely no proof and to believe people who are hypocrites. i get that the taliban are fighting a sophisticated enemy and have little resources and there may be civilian casualties along the way. what i don't get is staging attacks in populated areas when there is a high chance of casualties, or some idiot who blows himself up when he sees afghan cars passing by.

                    i am more sympathetic to a taliban government than i am their tactics in war.
                    There are people today who think that admitting Godโ€™s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of Godโ€™s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                    Sayyid Qutb

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
                      this is damage from the attack, area of the bombed out car doesn't exactly look like some heavily fortified base, it looks like a housing complex on the side of a road. so yes, common sense dictates that when you set off a car bomb on a city street, civilians will die. notice the car is not inside the complex but on the road.





                      What it looks like to you or what you think has no bearing in regards to the facts on the ground


                      Nearly all accounts on this incident corroborate with this one by the Guardian. If you need more, you can google yourself (google news)

                      "Just hours after the president left, a car bomb blasted the gate of a compound east of Kabul where hundreds of UN staff and EU trainers live, followed by a prolonged gun battle between Afghan forces and the attackers. The light of a new day?"
                      Editorial: With no forceful leadership from the US president, the opportunity to bring the Taliban into a settlement is being lost


                      This is not to say that Afghan insurgency or NATO/NA forces combat does not result in civilian casualties. It does. However, in the instances where the Afghan insurgency does result in civilian casaulties, it is doubtful that is the intention since the objective of any insurgency is to win over the people (as in Vietnam, Iraq, etc).

                      Secondly, it has been an established fact now by several independent media organizations that sometimes the reports of Afghan civilian casaulties are distorted since the ANA soldiers/police are sometimes counted as the common civilians which they are not.

                      Lastly, what the Karzai regime says has no credibility whatsoever. It is a puppet government that has previously discovered that 15-20 US forces took part in the Kandahar killings, and then like the puppets that they are, retracted their own statement (Karimi and the Parliament made statements and then retracted it)
                      Last edited by Shah-i-Kot; 05-02-2012, 06:22 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
                        common sense. its a powerful thing ya'll.
                        Correct, but you are saying here conflicts with most reports on the incident. Secondly, what a Karzai or NATO official says in regards to civilian casaulties really bears no credibility since NATO airstrikes and night raids have resulted in the most civilian casaulties

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
                          and if this was some large base where civilians were not allowed as you are suggesting, afghan civilians and kids would not be allowed to walk around the wreckage at the base like they are doing in this picture.




                          This is actually irrelevant since curious onlookers always walk around crash sites or wreckage. One of the reasons is that some people can steal valuable and able parts like the engine and anything else that can be salvaged.

                          This also happens in regards to oil tankers that have broken down. People usually flock towards it to get the oil

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by randolph85 View Post
                            the same reason the soviets never attacked pakistan, its simply not worth it.

                            also, if the talibans counter message was killing afghan civilians, they almost deserve to be defeated.
                            With common sense, none of the reports of the Karzai regime/NATO make any sense in regards to casualties, and with their previous record on this matter should always be taken with a grain of salt, investigated.

                            Common sense would say that since this was a area "hundreds of UN staff and EU trainers live, followed by a prolonged gun battle between Afghan forces and the attackers. The light of a new day?" then the issue of Afghan civilian casaulties becomes rather suspect. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...?newsfeed=true

                            Obviously in this conflict, both the Taliban and NATO tend to exaggerrate some issues. In war, truth is the first casaultie. However, using common sense, one can also figure out and separate facts from non-facts.

                            Lastly, in this war, all civilian casaulties are due to NATO's occupation/Karzai regime since that is the reason the conflict carries on

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                            • #15
                              just do us a favour buy a ticket ,and fly over stay some months there and see with your own eyes the stupidity of your so called taliban , the arrogance of the americans and the rutless behaviour of pseudo mujahedin of yesterday .

                              no need to spam the board day in and day out with meaningless news ....

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