Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

US & Al Qaeda: For the Afghan & Pakistani 2 sides of the same coin

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • US & Al Qaeda: For the Afghan & Pakistani 2 sides of the same coin

    US & Al Qaeda: For the Afghan & Pakistani 2 sides of the same coin


    Although many Americans have a great hatred for their government’s lifelong allies, the Al Qaeda and Taliban which are offshoots of the Mujahideen in the 1980's, from the Muslim perspective the policies of both are very similar. The violence and bloodshed both are capable of in order to complete their objectives and strategic interests are starkly similar.

    When considering the Taliban was formed by the CIA and trained in causing maximum bloodshed including car bombings and assassinations it isn’t hard to understand why Muslims particularly from the Afghan and Pakistani region see the United States and Al Qaeda as one.


    While one side may see itself as highly civilized the barbarism they represent is starkly similar to the Taliban. The terrorists are well known to use immense brutality against innocent civilians and non-combatants without regard for humanity. In fact the brutality of the Taliban and the ideal of massacring all who come in their way are very similar to the intense use of force USA applies against its enemies. US forces have continually been using aerial bombardment on Afghan civilians despite constant requests by the Karzai government to stop them. For the Americans all that has ever mattered is protecting its people and its soldiers. Not for a second did they care when the Taliban were massacring innocent civilians in the country after they left it in their hands after defeating the Soviets. Of course let's not forget to see a Soviet defeat over 4 Million Afghans paid with their lives because USA thought it fit to arm militant Commanders.


    Being more technologically advanced the USA has managed to quite further ahead in the field of genocide of civilians and is the only Nation in the World that has used nuclear weapons. The Atom bombs used in Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed over 220,000 people and left thousands of civilians wounded. People still suffer the bombings effects but it is justified by American media as the only solution to the war, another example of how human life has no meaning and how civilians can be killed by the USA to complete its goals and objectives. When Michael Walzer suggested that the attack was War terrorism and genocide a “proud” American, Robert Newman came in to defend the bombings that destroyed thousands of lives. Compare this to the Taliban who claim the 9/11 attacks were a necessity and for the greater good. Similar tactics, similar strategies and same talk about necessity and greater good.


    But one has to wonder who in the World made an irresponsible Nation that took part in the murder of over 3.5 Million civilians in Vietnam because it could not accept the will of the Vietnamese people, the country that decided the future of other Nations? Who made the Nation that used nuclear weapons to bring a painful death to 220,000 civilians simply for the survival of 10,000-30,000 of its own soldiers the upholder of World Peace? Should that same Nation have the right to talk about Iran, Pakistan or North Korea’s Nuclear Weapons?


    It is hard to understand who is a worse enemy of humanity. A country that bombs innocent's, massacres Millions in their own homeland and then uses its monetary power and influence to bully the rest of the Nations of the World into submission or the terrorist organizations that have no value for human life. For the average Afghan or Pakistani they are both the very same.


    Who Suffers?
    In the end who suffers? Not the USA but people within those countries where they interfere. It is painful to see that day after day Afghans and Pakistanis are falling prey to American foreign policy that once created the terrorists, used them for their own gains and abandoned them to be cleared out by the local people at the cost of thousands of lives.



    The process is never ending and the local population will continue suffering until one side relents. The terrorists will continue using the excuse of foreign occupation and their atrocities to recruit new members to wage their war while the US will continue waging a war that is hurting the Nations they are occupying in the name of a war that has no end, rather than helping them.


    To bring World peace, and to bring some of what is left of America's reputation, US interference in the World needs a permanent end. American occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and unending support for Israel is only alienating Muslims and pushing them in the arms of the Taliban and Al Qaeda. The Taliban are nowhere close to relenting either.


    Perhaps the only way to bring back the American name is to adopt an isolationist policy. By ensuring they stop scaring their own people into believing that America is faced with a constant militant threat if they don’t interfere in that part of the World the US will bring back its reputation. The real victims of the 'war on terror' are local people who have taken more losses than America. Afghan, Iraqi and recently even Pakistani causalities have crossed American causalities including those in the 9/11 Attacks. Therefore the United States must stop victimizing itself. Even if it is the victim of the September 11 attacks it has made hundreds of thousands of others a victim of its own policies.


    Until the United States understands the World and stops interfering in World Affairs where it has no business it will continue being seen as an evil and ignorant Nation.


    That reputation US has built up over the years is where the terrorists draw their support from. And their victims are the Pakistani and Afghan civilians because they are the ones seen as American pawns, who are now in a precarious position entrapped by both the Taliban and the Americans.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------


    http://havisultan.com/index.php?opti...rism&Itemid=71


    So I am not for the occupation of Afghanistan by America either. I just believe this shouldn't mean we support the Taliban 9/10 of whose victims are fellow Afghans and Pakistanis. This is one of my most provocative articles to date about the American's injustice against our people. Both Pakistani and Afghan.


    If you like the article go to the site and rate it (At the top of the article)... and make sure you follow me. Differing views does not mean you can't follow me on twitter.
    I am the author of Badal, an upcoming fiction novel on the War on Terror. For more information about me visit [URL="http://www.havisultan.com"]www.havisultan.com[/URL]

    Follow me on twitter:
    [url]https://twitter.com/#!/HaviZSultan[/url]

  • #2
    Originally posted by shadowgoverner
    i didnt read all of that but you have no credibility among Afghans and over 90% of pakistanis.

    havizsultan.com lol
    hahahahahahhahahahahahahaah
    Just because I have a different opinion. If the Taliban government when it was in power had allowed differing opinions and thoughts to flourish it would have sparked debate and may have created some scholars.

    But tolerance is not the strongpoint of the Talib. You can respectfully disagree... which you are incapable of...
    I am the author of Badal, an upcoming fiction novel on the War on Terror. For more information about me visit [URL="http://www.havisultan.com"]www.havisultan.com[/URL]

    Follow me on twitter:
    [url]https://twitter.com/#!/HaviZSultan[/url]

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by shadowgoverner
      you are plain anti muslim and call them animals as you have stated so spare us the rest of your BS.
      you are ill informed about Afghans and Pashtun culture and you write a filthy propaganda piece.

      what scholars? what the hell are you talking about?
      the muslim worls is with Afghans only deviants such as you are against muslims wqith your recycled propaganda.

      do you support that Pukhtunkhwa go to Afghanistan?
      Was that what you were taught from childhood. Anyone criticizing the Taliban is an apostate and deserves to be beheaded?

      This is the childishness that afflicts our population. Scholars like Javed Ahmed Ghamidi, Mohammed Farooq Khan, Zakir Naik, ...

      You have no right to call anyone anti muslim just because you don't agree with them. I have criticized an organization-a man made organization created by MAN, not Allah, not the Prophet and not anything related to Islam. Men can make mistakes, I can't believe I am having the same blasphemy law childish debate with another intolerant stud who probably spends his spare time beating his wife.

      Taliban have nothing to do with Islam. They just use the name of Islam to kill innocent civilians those are my views.

      No wonder your intolerance led you to be kicked out of Afghanistan. How did you expect to rule when you couldn't listen to the difficulties of half the population without taking offense?

      I am not against Muslims but you are tearing Islam apart. If the Taliban continues blowing Muslims up there may be no Muslims left.
      I am the author of Badal, an upcoming fiction novel on the War on Terror. For more information about me visit [URL="http://www.havisultan.com"]www.havisultan.com[/URL]

      Follow me on twitter:
      [url]https://twitter.com/#!/HaviZSultan[/url]

      Comment


      • #4
        Shadowgoverner aka Graveyardofempires; I think HaviSultan's secularist views and his Pro-Pakistanism is absurd and irrational.


        But even I can hone in on your disingenuous tactics you're using in the debate here.

        He didn't say he is against Islam; he said the Taliban use Islam and do not sincerely represent Islam, rather they use an ISLAMIC DISGUISE as an excuse. This is different than being against Islam; if he believed the Taliban were true Muslims, and was against what they do because he felt they were following Islam, then that would be being against Islam. Rather he clearly distances the Taliban from Islam and rightfully so. The Taliban are very very very distance from TRUE Islam.

        Furthermore; you're disningenuously attempting to portray your Views and the Taliban's narrative as the NORMATIVE Afghan views. As Khostai said, the people aren't for the Taliban, they're just against NATO

        Your argument is a FALSE dilemma being against NATO does not mean favoring the Taliban. It's easy to see the average Afghan does not support or follow the Taliban because the average Afghan does not follow the Taliban's rules. About Music, dance, learning, women's education and so on.

        so if anyone here knows zero about Afghns, Pashtuns and even Islam, it is you.
        [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

        2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by shadowgoverner
          i was brought up in a very modern family.
          almost everyone ini my family is educated.
          there are professors,doctors,engineers etc.

          now tell me why are you against Islam and Islamic culture in Islamic countries?
          why should they follow hindu culture and british law?
          I love zakir naik and he certainly doesnt follow your mindset and he will surely crush your propaganda.
          offcourse your aim is against Islam and pro seculerism in muslim countires such as Afghanistan and pakistan.
          you are already exposed but as your type of anti muslim peopel start off soft and than go out as soldat amir and malakandghar type.

          if you talked in this fashion baout my family i would make sure you are knocked out.

          you are entitled to having your biased view.
          you pakis seem to be extremely confused,no wonder your qaid is an alcoholic.

          your knowledge of Afghanistan,Islam and Pashtuns is not just zero but minus 10.
          Whats there to take offense. Beating wives is allowed isn't it according to Islamists. I remember taking my mates taking part in a campaign to stop violence on women... our teams would go to houses and threaten the husbands to stop or face police action. So one day we went to this husbands house and he had beaten his wife silly, there was blood on the floor too... when our team came to the doorstep he locked his wife up and claimed "in Islam a husband can do anything with his woman." That was before he roughed up one of the members of the team. I wasn't with this team but I heard accounts

          Its not knowledge. Its an exchange of ideas and beliefs. Its about accepting differing views which you have no capability of doing. Pakistan is insulted daily on this forum. Do you see me crying about it despite my Nationalist background?

          Taliban is a man made organization. As long as it remains people will criticize it and this doesn't mean they are against Islam.

          Who has said I am against Islam and Islamic culture? If you are talking about my support for secularism I don't believe its a foreign concept at all. I believe Islam has provision and Muslims can live in secular society. Over 53 Million Muslims are in Europe all living in secular systems. They haven't become non-muslim or lost their Islamic faith. There are clear benefits of the system which I wanted to represent... but we aren't even at the first stage yet... where we tolerate each other and differing ideas. No one is forcing secularism on anyone. People will want it they will take it and if they won't they won't

          Its only us that are locked at each others throats. Shadowgovernor. Its time for me to leave you to your intolerance. Forgive me if I have hurt your sentiments but again Islam is not your property, neither are you or your Commanders Prophets of God. Therefore you have no right declaring me or anyone else a Non-Muslim. What do you know?
          I am the author of Badal, an upcoming fiction novel on the War on Terror. For more information about me visit [URL="http://www.havisultan.com"]www.havisultan.com[/URL]

          Follow me on twitter:
          [url]https://twitter.com/#!/HaviZSultan[/url]

          Comment


          • #6
            My views will not change. Neither will yours... so its best to accept that and move on. Peace. I don't have more time to waste on this thread.
            I am the author of Badal, an upcoming fiction novel on the War on Terror. For more information about me visit [URL="http://www.havisultan.com"]www.havisultan.com[/URL]

            Follow me on twitter:
            [url]https://twitter.com/#!/HaviZSultan[/url]

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shadowgoverner
              LOL
              man you are so stupid that i dont even knwo where to start.
              atleast he is honest is saying that he is pro seculerism.
              you on the otherhand being a mutazilah cultist are trying to tell us who muslims are.
              lets see
              -you want to burn the quran thinking it is idol worhip so all muslims must be hafizulquran in your view.

              -you want to say that Afghans dont support muslims but invaders and somehow they are against their own people.

              -you dont support nato but clearly are aginst those who want to throw them out(support by default).

              -you dont support the invasion of afghanistan but wont believe the 4.6 million dead in the last decade

              -you firmly believe it is Afghans who have killed more civilians than the foreign occupiers when challenged to show evidence you pull up your skirt and run away.

              -you have never lived in Afghanistan and think that your internet knowledge somehow makes you an expert on Afghanistan.

              -you claim taliban are influenced by wahabis arabs and than you say they are inspired by deobandis(india) than you say no they are isnpired by seculer british law abiding pakistan.

              - you claim to be equal to Prophet muhammad (pbuh) while harassing ladies here online.

              -you claim to be on the side of Afghans while saying that droping an atomic bomb on them would be mercy killing.

              -you claim to be ghilzai pashtun while you are half bengali and half arab.

              -you claim to knwo pashtuns while claiming that ghilzais are turks


              YOU ARE TRUELLY OUT OF YOUR MIND


              YOU HAVE YOUR RIGHT TO FALSE OPINIONS.

              See you did it again; you went into the same loop, assuming that the premise that the Taliban are legitimate followers of Islam is true.Tell us where in the Shari'ah of Muhammad(saw) did he beat women for not wearing burqas or men for not having beards?No where, yet the Taliban did these.See your own strategy to respond back is to assume your false premises and then respond as if they're true.Did the Taliban ban music and dancing? yes . Do the Pashtuns love to dance and play music? Yes ....so that shows right there the Taliban and Pashtun society are at odds.Do Pashtuns mandate men to have beards? No, the Taliban enforce beards, They're once again at odds.

              The only thing Pashtuns and Taliban agree on, is restricting women's movement and that isn't something to be proud of. in Islam Khadija(ra) used to work in the markets and interact with society, as did Fatima(ra) and 'Aisha(ra) numerous hadth prove this. And the Taliban wouldnt allow women to wash clothes at the stream. It doesn't take a genius to see the Taliban are not reflective of Afghans, Pashtuns or Islam at all. It's very simple logic.If my opinions were even slightly false you'd show a hadith where Muhammad(saw) prevented his wives from working and participating in society
              [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

              2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by shadowgoverner
                you are not familiar with ground realities of pashtun society you like havizsultan only assume.

                refuting your false claims is waste of my time as i know you will make up new ones after that and if not you will copy and paste some from fox news.com.

                you claim pashtuns love to dance LOL

                gets to show you know nothing about pashtuns.
                the ground realities of Pashtun society? you mean like painting windows so that no one can see a woman inside or not letting your wife see a gynecologist just because it could be a male? These ground realities?
                You hide behind this pretentious portrayal of "ground realities" yet you never have a single source, reference or confirmation, except people who support te Taliban. Khostai, who actually LIVED in afghankstan while you were collecting welfare in the UK even attests that these things existed there Pashtuns dont love to dance? ever heard of something called THE ATTAN. Shows how much you know about Pashtuns.. This explains why you originally were boasting about Mullah Noorul Aziz but now bad mouth him. You yourself are alien to the culture you claim to be from.

                You'll do anything to hide .....not response except cowardly denial from your end. Typical.
                Last edited by RevolutionThroughReason; 03-31-2012, 04:57 PM.
                [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by shadowgoverner
                  i feel sorry for you that you love to be ignorant.
                  i dont want to waste my time with self proclaimed wikipedia scholar such as you.
                  That's your only response, never a refutation. That speaks volumes about your position.

                  you always avoid and then run away like a coward; go ahead. By all means, but only verifies whatever we said about the Taliban is true.
                  [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                  2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
                    That's your only response, never a refutation. That speaks volumes about your position.

                    you always avoid and then run away like a coward; go ahead. By all means, but only verifies whatever we said about the Taliban is true.
                    I think the Taliban way of reasoning makes it difficult to have debate.

                    Plus shadowgovernor's idea that Taliban=Pashtuns=Muslims makes it impossible to have a proper debate with him without him taking offense at minor things. Every time you say something he's shouting that Islam has been insulted and Pashtuns have been insulted.

                    Of course taking in the emotionalism on this site he just has to say Pashtuns have been insulted without proof for people to jump at my throat, especially since I am pro-pakistani which automatically lowers my Pashtun-or goodwill towards Pashtuns score. lol.

                    Point is the Taliban have never been able to take criticism. Would someone dare to raise their voice and say this and that about the Taliban was wrong within their reign. Of course not! Their thinking goes along the same lines.

                    Thats what I am saying intolerance has seeped into the very bones of the Afghan and Pakistani. It will probably take more than 2 generations for the concepts of free will and liberalism to sow their seeds in our societies.

                    Men like Zakir Naik are formed in liberal societies where people get to think of things critically and from a different angle. Here the Mullah group cannot come to accept anyone who sees things from a differing angle. He is automatically to be beheaded.

                    Primary reason for the Talibans failure and the fact Afghanistan produced no scholar during their reign.

                    In any case I wanted to have a debate on the question... the US & Al Qaeda are two sides of the same coin for the Pashtun. I want to discuss if this is true. Can anyone shed light on this. Be sure to read the article though... Post No #1
                    I am the author of Badal, an upcoming fiction novel on the War on Terror. For more information about me visit [URL="http://www.havisultan.com"]www.havisultan.com[/URL]

                    Follow me on twitter:
                    [url]https://twitter.com/#!/HaviZSultan[/url]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by haviZsultan View Post
                      I think the Taliban way of reasoning makes it difficult to have debate.

                      Plus shadowgovernor's idea that Taliban=Pashtuns=Muslims makes it impossible to have a proper debate with him without him taking offense at minor things. Every time you say something he's shouting that Islam has been i
                      No, Shadowgovernor knows full well that such an equation is a false comparison, he does it deliberately as a smokescreen tactic to obfuscate the issue and shield the Taliban from criticism. It fails of course, but his mental reasoning skills are limited and thus it is all he knows.
                      [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                      2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RevolutionThroughReason View Post
                        No, Shadowgovernor knows full well that such an equation is a false comparison, he does it deliberately as a smokescreen tactic to obfuscate the issue and shield the Taliban from criticism. It fails of course, but his mental reasoning skills are limited and thus it is all he knows.
                        You have beautifully described his mindset.

                        Its very necessary for us to develop tolerance in our land and let it flourish for godsake. We cannot succeed without it. The worst thing is that the Pashtun is at each others throats which is detrimental to his development and advance.
                        I am the author of Badal, an upcoming fiction novel on the War on Terror. For more information about me visit [URL="http://www.havisultan.com"]www.havisultan.com[/URL]

                        Follow me on twitter:
                        [url]https://twitter.com/#!/HaviZSultan[/url]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shadowgoverner

                          havizsultan.com lol
                          hahahahahahhahahahahahahaah
                          came here to say this..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Shadowgovernor , explain to us your reasoning

                            how is his highlighting people who perversely try to use Islam to justify their crimes against other human beings a "Cheap Shot against Islam". He is clearly speaking about specific individuals and not the Islamic religion.

                            are you insinuating beating up a woman to a pulp is what Islam teaches? Do you believe that the Prophet Muhammad(saw) would approve of harming women in such a way?

                            It seems to me this claim that people criticizing the abuse of religion to excuse their behavior are actually trying insult to Islam itself is a scapegoat tactic you use to stop them from criticizing people like you for sanctioning injustice; by trying to use Islam as a shield. That is the biggest insult to Islam there is.

                            Shadowgovernor aka Graveyardofempires
                            The word Wahhabi is used PRECISELY to distance People like YOurself from Islam. It is use precisely to distinguish between the Genuine and Pure teachings of Islam form the corrupted, Cultural distortions that You endorse That's exactly the OPPOSITE of insulting Islam rather it is exonerating Islam from the corruption you attempt to place upon it with your distorted ideas
                            [QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]

                            2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              i disagree that the taliban are using islam as a front for non islamic goals. had this been the case, i am sure they would of been able to be bought off by the americans like america has bought off other groups in afghanistan and elsewhere in the past. i disagree with the taliban more than i agree with them, but i don't question their commitment to islam or at least their perceived form of islam. its their supporters that i find more annoying than the actual taliban credo.
                              There are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.

                              Sayyid Qutb

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X