Robert Pape destroying Sam Harris and Soldat Amir narrative with data/facts

[MostafaM]

Salam Barekzaia,

I will reply to your mentioned one by one if you don´t mind.

1) Assumption 1: The Taliban spend most of their time firing bullets and fighting the way a conventional insurgency in the modern era has taken on a superior army.

This dangerous assumption is simply wrong because it means that you are assuming fighting formations, tactics, raids done, and bullets fired without an iota of proof that such measures are routinely done by the "men in black turbans" to satisfy some grossly exaggerated numbers you cite above. In general, when we examine the logs of US soldiers and descriptions of direct fire fights where the US soldiers felt confronted by a coordinate raid, they are few and far between. As anicdote is that not why the are called "Ghosts" by their adversary US soldiers? They fire a few times and disappear. The most memorable sustained fire fights generally make it into the news. The correlation has to be taken in light of fluctuations in the use of US air power. A major factor in US world dominance that you rarely entertain in your discussion. It is an immense bottle neck on actually ever ensuring the insurgency does away with its assymetric tactics.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news...rikes_091109w/

I have never said that the Taliban use the same military tactics that a modern standing army applies on the battlefield.
Nevertheless an insurgency has to put that much pressure in form of firepower onto the enemy to inflict losses that are high enough to achieve it´s goals.
Firing some rounds of AK-47 bullets on fortified bases and bullet proof humvees won´t achieve the enemy to reconsider it´s wider strategic interests or to evacuate an outpost or a base.
The Taliban videos that are available online almost all show how much firepower the Taliban concentrate at one point and those fire fights last for atleast an hour.

They are called "Ghosts" not because they are few and far between but because the rugged terrain favours them and they can melt away into civilian areas because they don´t wear uniforms and are harder to detect.

The Air Force, how strong the might be, loses it´s efficiency if they have to deal with fighters in rugged terrain because cover of woods, rocks and caves makes the fighters harder to detect and the impact of bombs and explosives is limited. As you may know, blast waves are the main reason why people die of bombs, second come shrapnel wounds. Those blast waves that spread spherically lose their effects if the fighters have cover, are scattered and the bombs are dropped into rugged terrain of valleys. Bombs develop their full effect in flat areas.

2) Assumption number 2:
That by receding into safer territory the Taliban's views and struggle are somehow not innate to Afghan sentiments. I think this is the main premise on which all your arguments rest.

This notion hinges on the idea that any insurgency requires a safe haven and popular support, yet you do not complete the analysis in the CONTEXT of this war examining all the variables inherent to this conflict. Applying the history of war does not mean that one regurgitates facts... but that one applies what one knows about warfare to the current situation at hand and adds to the growing knowledge of war. For instance, drone warfare and IED utilization are two major contributions the US and the insurgency have each made to the history of warfare.

So to play this out, yes, if an insurgency, like say, FARC is fighting a nonsuper power entity it makes sense to take refuge closer to your enemy and hide amongst your foe. There are many indicators that the Taliban do the latter as well. The Taliban that fired the rocket into the helicopter taking down members of SEAL team 6 were hiding amongst villagers that the US subsequently abused to try and find the men who fired the rockets. Instead, its astute that they use this concept of Western invented boundary lines (and we both accept that Pakistan is a Western designed country) against its own creators. It would be foolish for the Taliban to not recede into NATO recognized "no go" zones for their benefit. Basically, its like you telling them: Hey Talib, I believe that you would be more valiant and Afghan if you ran into a drone hit zone and waved your arms and then, if you didnt get killed by that... I want you to run into a hail of bulletts.

I think this is pure and utter opinion by yourself and you need to prove this. If your response is simply: well why would you need backward operating bases if you have the support of the people?

The same reason that Nadir Shah utilized a backward operating base, the same reason that the Muj factions utilized backward operating bases, and the same reason that anyone fighting an enemy that has IR driven drone utilized identification of warm bodies on the ground would against such a superior force. Perhaps one would best do to ask Amanullah Shah why he utilized the FATA region of then British India as the place from which to launch his advance against Bachaay Saqo.

Quiet simply, kindred groups like kurds and Pashtuns utilizing large tracts of lands with porous borders is the null hypothesis and your hypothesis requires some more dependable evidence to prove some nefarious "by and for Pakistan in all and every case." For instance, Kurds hitting Turkey from Iraq may have some supports from the Iraq based Kurdish groups, yet individual tribes may have their own goals.

Your examples about the insurgencies that you mentioned, the FARC and Kurdish Guerillas leave one important point untouched:
even if the FARC has it´s camps in Venezuela or Ecuador, the leadership of the FARC is independent in their actions, choices and strategies and tactics.
There are no Venezuelian and Ecuadorian intelligence agents who tell them what to do and when to do it.
The FARC is the oldest guerilla movement that still exists and it has stron roots in the peasant community of Columbia unlike the right-wing guerillas who are mainly funded and armed by rich farmers, landowners and politicians.

Taking refuge on foreign territory is not the main point here. Taking refuge there while

a) your military and political cadres
b)logistical, financial, strategic and tactical bases

are located on foreign territory and maintained with the help of a foreign entity is the point.

Your examples about Nader Shah, the Kurds and the Mujs of the 80ies leave these points aside.

A) Must eat and someone must be helping them eat. And? This proves what? Basically you are saying: People eat because they eat. The same guys would have been eating elsewhere as well. Jamiat Islami and other groups may very well have a Muslim Brotherhood style ability to organize such nutritional reserves for the Taliban and others. On the Afghan side of the border these men are already members of various tribes. Had they not picked up the gun to fight there is no proof that they somehow have a mandatory ban on eating as they had before they did so.

And once again its an error of assumption that if you are eating in Pakistan or in Kandahar that you automatically have loyalties to the one feeding you.

This is the murky area where you ask us to believe that two people with slightly overlapped goals (Jamiat and the Taliban) have exactly equivalent overlapped goals because food is shared.

You also forget that in times of war the local cleric has a galvanizing effect. Masajids and madrassas activate and become storage facilities, feeding centers, and collection centers. This is proven in the fact that across the Muslim world from Iraq to Afghanistan the US has destroyed weapons depots in mosques.

The mere fact that people have to be fed and food is not for free was my point. I could have made the example about the 120$/month that every Taliban foot soldier receives, too. Or the higher amounts of money that commanders get.

The question remains where this money comes from.
20.000 * 120$*12= 28.800.000$/per annum.
A simplified calculation leads us that you need atleast 29 Million $ to pay the Taliban fighters who have to live and feed their families back home. I don´t think that charitable organisations are paying for these foot soldiers.

I am pretty sure you have never served in any military or know how to maintain an insurgent fighting force on the field. I mean even if we look at how the Vietcong had to supply it´s troops with food, fuel for transportation and heating, ammo and weapons (and that conflict is almost over for 35 years now), we get a glimpse of what the Taliban have to do to be able to maintaine a force on the field.

You shouldn´t get into a romanticized version of freedom fighters sleeping on rocks and living of the air that they breathe because their cause is so holy. That´s for fiction and novels.
The reality on the ground is different.

B) Regarding weaponry and its utility... as noted there is a gaping hole in your theory in the fact that the more assymmetric a war becomes the more likely folks will resort to more desparate means. The Chinese poisoning the bread of British soldiers during that occupation is one example. In this war as noted above, the IED and the suicide agent as well as the embedded ANA lackey are weapons in the insurgency arsenal.

Regarding proof of the the Taliban having to resort to Korean war era and even older weaponry, I previously discussed poignant images of Commander Dauran and his faction captured by Paul Refsdahl in the only embedded journalism behind Taliban lines. A subsequent piece by Najibullah Querishi focusing on Hezbi fighters also shows a motly array of fighters that are relying on road side bombs.

The fertilizer for such weapons does come from Pakistan. In fact, the US has been working with pakistan to find a solution to that chemical component finding its way to insurgents. Yet the CIA has not been able to do an A to Z chain in any way whatsoever showing that anyone besides civilians (ie no military personel) are providing Afghan insurgents this weapon.

I don´t understand the historical analogies that you bring here.
The very documentary of Refsdahl shows clearly what kind of weaponry the Taliban have on their hands. And it´s not weaponry from the Korean War. The Flarak Guns that their use to fire on US army patrols are Russian made guns from the 60ies and 70ies. They have definitly enough ammo and weapons to engage US patrols from close distance, too. If you remember the, Dauran asks his guys to fire upon them from close range on the radio.

Explosives can be made out of Aceton and many other chemicals, too, that you can buy in any drug store. It´s not just Pakistani made fertilizer that is produced in large amounts in different parts of Pakistan. There are no fertilizer plants in Afghanistan though.

Regarding the debate about AKs and MI6s etc. i will refer you to a lengthy discussion Scimitar and I had about this same issue:
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http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthr...enfield&page=2

"The dramatic assymetry between the insurgents and the occupier force can be demonstrated by the number of Lee Enfield rifles being discovered on the battlefield. The Lee Enfield is a British Era weapon to drive home the point.

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/arti...-1-22-2009.asp

If one does not want to accept strategypage's musings, then the NY Times assessment should suffice:

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...an-gun-locker/

"Insurgents in Helmand Province seem to have used bolt-action rifles more than in many regions of Afghanistan. Whether this indicates a pressure on the supply of assault rifles and their ammunition or a preference for the longer effective ranges of Lee-Enfield and Mosin-Nagant rifles is not clear. But the longer range of bolt-action rifles compared with assault rifles, and their relative abundance in Helmand Province, is a reason this particular acreage of Afghanistan has a reputation as being plagued by a more dangerous set of Afghan marksmen, and even a few snipers, as seen in this video. For those who have been under fire in Helmand, finding that a large fraction of captured rifles are Lee-Enfields or Mosin-Nagants is not surprising. This battalion’s battlefield collections fit its Marines’ experiences on patrol."

Lest Randolph or SXE attempt to harp on the increased accuracy of the Lee Enfield, I would say that they are sorely missing the point.

Here is an example from video, via the Times of the sort of tactic they are advocating. One must remember that in the Russian-Afghan war, AK47s abounded and they decreased accuracy. Initially, the rapid fire sequence would cause the muzzle to rise and point to the sky in a display of idiocy (this occured per the conservational laws of physics and is the reason why the M16 has a rapid fire sequence that terminates after a few bullets), and the single shot itself is also not as accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_rise

Nonetheless, a generation of fighters was trained on these easy to manufacture, easily imitated, and cheap weapons.

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/...at-matter.html

This video more than adequately proves the point the strategist makes in the first article:

"In the last year, NATO units in southern Afghanistan estimate there has been a 25 percent increase in sniping incidents. This is not seen as a major danger. NATO troops wear protective bests and helmets that can stop bullets fired at long range, making it very frustrating for the Taliban shooters trying to hit a distant target in a vulnerable spot."

Despite the fact that 1 in a group of say 100 Talibs is sniper trained, he merely was able to cause his American counterpart (where a majority are trained to fire with accuracy) a shoulder injury with a good shot.

Why are 99/100 Talibs not sniper quality? Anyone who has ever fired a pistol and travelled to Afghanistan knows the answer to that question. There is no Wal Mart Wana or Wal Mart Kandahar with massive rounds of ammo available cheaply. The cost of ammo to waste to utilize in training is just too great in such settings. The gunsmiths of dar adam would not able to and are not able to churn out the sufficient number of bullets to ensure this level of lethal accuracy training. The average number of shots fired by an American trained policeman in city violence situations is 3-4 rounds.

http://www.virginiacops.org/articles...ing/combat.htm

So we have an evidence based situation: The Talib is equipped with an AK and possibly a Lee Enfield. The AK is less accurate, and the old AKs lack the rapid fire sequence that terminates and allows for some level of increased accuracy.
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It´s not good to generalize in terms of military tactics and neglect the area of the fight.
Helmand is a flat area where British forces occupy hights to build their posts and bases. From those bases they can oversee wast areas, detect and fire upon insurgents easily.
Planting IEDs is a hard task to do, too, if you can be spotted with IR etc.

The use of old Lee Enfield rifles by Taliban snipers is just a smart way to engage an enemy that can´t be approached under the cover of rugged terrain. The ammunition for the Lee Enfield ( 7,7 × 56 mm cartridges) can easily be bought in Pakistan. In fact many Commonwealth countries have the Lee Enfield still in use in their police forces and have production facilities to produce the 7,7 × 56 mm cartridges.

If there is no chance to concentrate firepower on your enemy, you resort to long distance sniper warfare.
The opposite is true when Taliban fighters attack outposts or bases in rugged terrain, in valleys or on mountain tops from different angles; I am pretty sure you have seen the fire fights on youtube.

Refer to links above to answer your request for proof regarding the Taliban having to utilize even British era weaponry... the NY Times article provides pictures of the weapon caches themselves.

So in summary, what you are asking us to do is to say:

1) Because your father taught you so: the Taliban are Pakistani agents and are automatons without any sentiments mirroring Afghan mores at all.

1. Let´s leave each others father out of this discussion. I don´t want to assume the attitude of your father towards the current conflict and project it on you.

2. And for your information: my father is not a staunch Taliban supporter but he definitly respects them, but I don´t because I am not a nostalgic and over romantic person who admires warfare, heroism on the battlefield and freedom fighters.

If the occupiers have announced a date when they leave and by that have fulfilled the demands of the Taliban, what stops them from coming to terms with the rest of the country? Is this fight for the benefit of a whole nation or for the benefit of a movement that is not a large segment of that nation?

An insurgency who has political and strategic aims that go diametrical against the national interests of the Afghan nation (close links to Pakistan and the Gulf States) and applies day to day tactics that kill more Afghans than occupiers is not a respected entity in my eyes. You may have different views on that.

2) Accept the ahistorical narrative that Pakistan sought to bring a devastating war to its backyard by the Brzenski phemomena alone. That is, you would lead us to believe that Brzenski was the egg and the war was the chicken.

Jimmy Carter´s presidency began in 1977, while Brzenski was his National Security Adviser. As you and I know, the insurgency against Daoud Khan´s regime started in 1975 with the help of the ISI and with the people who started it getting refuge in Pakistan after being trained there and their failed coup.

You cannot chose the historical point and start a narrative from there but neglect what had happened before that. It´s crystal clear that whoever is president in Pakistan, a left-leaning Bhutto or a Islamist Zia, they have to support internationalistic groups in Afghanistan to undermine any form of Afghan/Pashtun nationalism aswell as any help for the Baluch national resistance.

History speaks for itself.

If we accepted that the debate would be over. That ahistorical narrative does not explain the Russian advances into Tajikistan and the other istan states. Where the Pakistanis also to blame for Russkey incursions into Dagestan? Into Uzbekistan? There is precedent the Russians had already set. The greater probability is that the Pakistanis and the Americans took a baseline low level inflammation and insurgency against growing Russian influence that the Sardar Daud government had allowed and put it on steroids. To claim that the whole Afghan Russian War was Pakistani manufactured whole cloth is a denial of recorded history my friend.

?

When the areas of modern day Tajikistan and Usbekistan were occupied, a Tajikistan or Usbekistan didn´t even exist nor did Pakistan exist at that time. What´s your point here?

To proclaim that the two groups of Islamic internationalistic groups of university students with too much time on their hand were "insurgents" is huge exaggeration. Those two students failed in their attempt to turn rural people against the Daoud Regime and their coup failed miserably.

The whole war was coordinated and led by ISI General Akhtar while the US didn´t even have sufficient CIA operatives on the ground in Pakistan untill 1982.

I mean come on, you can list information about nozzle velocity of guns extensivly but are short-spoken when it comes to historical facts?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Thanks mostafa for the thorough response. I will examine it and write back. Regarding the father comment, my apologies and don't take offense. The comment merely was a reference to how children acquire the views of their parents. I've always thought well ofpeople and viewed adulthood as that point at which children start questioning some of their parents views if appropriate. Was not a judgement on your father. I am in st Louis on travels so give me a little time. Thanks again.

[Manzareh]

An army of 20.000 insurgents need ammunition, food, weapons (AK-47, machine guns, RPGs etc.)

Let me count:

1. Food:
A human being needs 1200 [kcal] a day.
Let´s say, the Taliban eat just rice and some vegetables.
The current price of rice is 14$/Scheffel.
Let´s assume Vegetables are available for free on the wild plaines of afghanistan.
The energy in rice is 1260 kcal/kg.

Conversion factors Scheffel to kg:
Scheffel is volume [m³] and mass is [kg], the conversion factor is the density [m³/kg].
Conversion between Scheffel and Liter: 1 Scheffel = 62,3 Liter
Conversion between Liter and m³: 1 Liter = 10^(-3) [m³]
Density of rice grits: 689 [kg/m³]

a) Rice consume per day:

Energy needed every day by a Taliban fighter: E(day)= 1260 [kcal/d]
Energy in rice: E(rice)=1260 [kcal/kg]
Mass of rice needed to provide that energy: m(rice,day)= E(day)/E(rice)=1200/1260=0,952 [kg/d]

b) Scheffel to kg:
1 [Scheffel]=62,3[Liter]
1 [Liter]=10^(-3)[m³]

c) Density rice:
dens(rice)=689 [kg/m³]

d) Costs of rice a day:
For one Taliban fighter who consumes 0,952 [kg/d] rice, we have to pay
costs(rice,1 fighter)= m(rice,1 fighter)/dens(rise) * costs

cost(rice, 1 fighter) = 14 [$/Scheffel]* (1 [Scheffel]/62,3[Liter])*(1[Liter]/10^(-3)[m³]) * 0,952 [kg/d]/689[kg/m³] = 0,31 [$/d]

---> We need 0,31 $ per day and per fighter to be able to feed him.

Since there are around 20.000 insurgens, we need : 6200 [$/d] to feed the army IF we make simplified assumptions that they only feast on rice. I guess, they eat meat, vegs and other stuff, too. So the real costs would be higher.

----> We need 22.630.000,00 [$/year] to feed the insurgents. Yes, thats 22.63 MILLIONS! The real costs are atleast 5 times higher because meat and vegetables are much more expensive than rice is.

Where does this money come from?

I can make simplified calculations for weaponry, energy for heating, ammunition etc., too.

The question is: do people like you use the brain that God has given you? Or are you just sitting behind your computers and get overwhelmed by filtered pseudo-information to make yourself happy?

The ones that are fighting for the cause of Allah dont need money, Allah runs to those that walk towards him. save yourself the hassle of writing boring calculations, i can imagine you sitting there like an idiot with your formulas out . Pick up the Quran instead.

[Manzareh]

blah..blah..blah! but you are also a pakistani/ american, yay or nay, ghundal?
you hate america and you claim you are upset with pakistan and that pakistan doesn't support taliban....right? then how come you are the representative for the taliban on pf? and how come for months you have been claiming that so many of the pashtuns and others on here, are all liars, uncle toms, pro war and hypocrites?
who are you really working for ghundal?
you even speak as though you are the spokesperson for ALL afghans!!!
by the way, who's the other person sharing your account or do you have a split personality?

America and 42 other countrys are invading Afghanistan and are on a crusade to take over all Muslim countrys, given that in mind how do you expect Muslims not to hate America?

[MostafaM]

Thanks mostafa for the thorough response. I will examine it and write back. Regarding the father comment, my apologies and don't take offense. The comment merely was a reference to how children acquire the views of their parents. I've always thought well ofpeople and viewed adulthood as that point at which children start questioning some of their parents views if appropriate. Was not a judgement on your father. I am in st Louis on travels so give me a little time. Thanks again.

Be save on your journeys.

And it´s ok. I didn´t take it as offense. I was just surprised because so far we have only debated on a very factual level.

Take your time and reply when you have time, pe khair.

[MostafaM]

The ones that are fighting for the cause of Allah dont need money, Allah runs to those that walk towards him. save yourself the hassle of writing boring calculations, i can imagine you sitting there like an idiot with your formulas out . Pick up the Quran instead.

Last time I checked, reading the quran doesn´t fill your stomach nor does it make weapon caches getting filled by some miracle.

Stick to your steroids and stay out of Afghan matters, Paki Boy.

[Ghundal]

Last time I checked, reading the quran doesn´t fill your stomach nor does it make weapon caches getting filled by some miracle.

Stick to your steroids and stay out of Afghan matters, Paki Boy.

So what exactly are you trying to prove?

Why are you raising this issue but ignoring Pakistan supplies to50 + well armed NATO alliance/Karzai ?

Are you saying that the most advanced and well armed alliance (in recent history) failure (academia in the West is concluding this) in Afghanistan is due to what? Pakistan? You really expect us to believe it is because of Pakistan and what, assuming you are 100% true, because Pakistan is allegedly supplying or allowing the supplying to the Afghan insurgency with Soviet era weaponry and food from the local Afghan Fried Chicken in Peshawar? or KFC ?

are you Serious?

Anyways, your grabbing at straws here. First, you question why or how people eat. Buddy, how are people in jungles of South America eating? How do people wake up and live?

[Manzareh]

Last time I checked, reading the quran doesn´t fill your stomach nor does it make weapon caches getting filled by some miracle.

Stick to your steroids and stay out of Afghan matters, Paki Boy.

For a Muslim Allah fills our stomochs thats why we say his name before and after every meal. learn the basics before you do your checks.

were did your steroids line come from? can you elebaorate please?..thought so, you cant can you?, cuz your a SHEEP, you just follow people around and copy what they say.

And why are you a racist? what have you got against Pakistani people? why do you call them napaak and murtads and such, you no nothing about Islam and you were brought up as a racist. When they call people 'Paki' they mean brown people, you my friend are a Paki to the same people you defend.

www.confused.com

[MostafaM]

For a Muslim Allah fills our stomochs thats why we say his name before and after every meal. learn the basics before you do your checks.

were did your steroids line come from? can you elebaorate please?..thought so, you cant can you?, cuz your a SHEEP, you just follow people around and copy what they say.

And why are you a racist? what have you got against Pakistani people? why do you call them napaak and murtads and such, you no nothing about Islam and you were brought up as a racist. When they call people 'Paki' they mean brown people, you my friend are a Paki to the same people you defend.

www.confused.com

Stop making a fool out of yourself, dimwit.

I am long enough a member of this forum to have witnessed your stupid poser pics, your green-white flag in your signature and your support for that cancer-like entity called Pakistan.

Allah may fill our stomachs but readint the Quran, as you mentioned, doesn´t make food manifest on our tables, as you proposed nor does it make reading it make food appear in front of the Taliban fighters.

And I can´t be a racist if
a) you and I belong to the same race
b) "Paki" or "Pakistani" is not describing a race.

I am anti-Pakistani establishment boot lickers like you who think they are allowed to mingle in Afghan matters.

Stay with your Chaudry ISI-Generals and STFUP!

[MostafaM]

So what exactly are you trying to prove?

Why are you raising this issue but ignoring Pakistan supplies to50 + well armed NATO alliance/Karzai ?

Are you saying that the most advanced and well armed alliance (in recent history) failure (academia in the West is concluding this) in Afghanistan is due to what? Pakistan? You really expect us to believe it is because of Pakistan and what, assuming you are 100% true, because Pakistan is allegedly supplying or allowing the supplying to the Afghan insurgency with Soviet era weaponry and food from the local Afghan Fried Chicken in Peshawar? or KFC ?

are you Serious?

Anyways, your grabbing at straws here. First, you question why or how people eat. Buddy, how are people in jungles of South America eating? How do people wake up and live?

If you could read, you would have read my response that I wrote I guess 10 times so far:

AGAIN for the mentally challenged ones!

1. Pakistan had political and military contacts to the Talibans untill 2001

2. 9/11 happened

3. Richard Armitage called Musharraf and told him: abandone the Taliban or we will bomb you into stone age; Musharraf agreed

4. Pakistan had to cover it´s strategic interests

5. Pakistan decided that the US won´t stay in Afghanistan forever and will leave one day----> keep the Taliban as assets, help them in the background

Conclusion:

For the sake of their wider strategic interests, they agreed to bow down to US pressure and help Operation Enduring Freedom by adjusting their tactics. They support the US and the Taliban untill both are helping their cause.

Since the US has been harsh on Pakistan, cut military ties and aides, US is bad and NATO supplies have been blocked.

You see, if you can´t the pattern here by looking at the Afghan conflict from the Pakistani perspective, you will remain the idiot that you are and misunderstand everything visible to you.

You are one of those people who need to get a bajonet stabbed in your eye to understand that it´s a bajonet that your eyes and brain have detected there.....

[Manzareh]

But whats that got to do with steroids? you only mentioned that word as your not clever enough to think of your own diss, how sad, i take calling you a sheep back as iv noticed your more of a parrot.

Ok so tell me, how does Allah fill our stomachs? does he come down, open your stomoch and put food inside it and seal it up? make your mind up.

"Paki" or "Pakistani" is not describing a race, but when you say "napaak nation" your describing 180Million people, and Muslims to stretch that point even more. Your a racist its clear that you have something against Pakistani people but smoke screen it with your political rhetoric. i see straight through you 'teachers pet' geek type characters, stay in the classroom boy your not smart enough to fool men in the real world.

[MostafaM]

But whats that got to do with steroids? you only mentioned that word as your not clever enough to think of your own diss, how sad, i take calling you a sheep back as iv noticed your more of a parrot.

Ok so tell me, how does Allah fill our stomachs? does he come down, open your stomoch and put food inside it and seal it up? make your mind up.

"Paki" or "Pakistani" is not describing a race, but when you say "napaak nation" your describing 180Million people, and Muslims to stretch that point even more. Your a racist its clear that you have something against Pakistani people but smoke screen it with your political rhetoric. i see straight through you 'teachers pet' geek type characters, stay in the classroom boy your not smart enough to fool men in the real world.

Come on.
Stop acting like a sissy.
Your picture posing your muscles in a black car.....that was epic. (attention: irony)

Stop diverting the discussion:
the topic was how and where the Taliban get the money from to feed their fighters. Your response was that one has to read the Quran and that fighters don´t need food. You are a hillarious Paki dimwit.

There is no "Pakistani nation". That´s why I use inverted commas.
I see, you are not that smart. I call whoever believes in a "Pakistani nation" a napak because it is imposed on the will of Baluchs, Pashtuns, Sindhis and Kashmiris.
Being racist against your own race is a concept that is really new to me.
I talk in the area of politics and nation states, little idiots like you don´t understand while their brain is on stand-by......after 5 min it spits out the word "racist" because there are no other cathegories to begin with.

And for your information, PAKI:
I originate from Kurram, for you PAKIS known under it´s British imposed name "Kurram Agency".
I know why I am against Pakistan......the reason is because I am Afghan.

You can stay Pak, Napak, Punjabi, Hera Mendi or whatever the hell you wanna be.

Stay out of Afghan/Pashtun matters.

[MostafaM]

mostafa
we know you are an atheist ....

1. Who is "we"?

2. And where did I say I am an atheist?

3. What relevance would (carefull: subjunctive) my "atheism" have in the context of the problems we talk about: proxy war on Afghan soil?

Do you feel threatened when I make your Paki and Arab supporters the subject of my words?

[Manzareh]

I also speak really loud, you can hear me coming from blocks away. some might call that seeking attention but thats just me and the way i am, im no shy guy. However the only skin i exposed in the photo with the black car was showing my forearm, i soppose even if i display my finger il be posing and showing off my hypothenar digitus secundus manus off right??

Now then, noware have i shown my support for Pakistani government.

Your an Afghan by race, so am i, but Afghan in this day and age does not mean Pashtun, it means someone that is part of Afghanistan as the country. So, by nationality what are you? since Kurram on the world map is located in Pakistan (this is a fact), your a Pakistani! or do they have Kurramistanis?

[MostafaM]

I also speak really loud, you can hear me coming from blocks away. some might call that seeking attention but thats just me and the way i am, im no shy guy. However the only skin i exposed in the photo with the black car was showing my forearm, i soppose even if i display my finger il be posing and showing off my hypothenar digitus secundus manus off right??

Now then, noware have i shown my support for Pakistani government.

Your an Afghan by race, so am i, but Afghan in this day and age does not mean Pashtun, it means someone that is part of Afghanistan as the country. So, by nationality what are you? since Kurram on the world map is located in Pakistan (this is a fact), your a Pakistani! or do they have Kurramistanis?

There is no Afghan race.
What the hell have you done to your brain?

Afghan always meant Pashtun and vice versa.
And Afghanistan is the homeland of Afghans/Pashtuns and those who are culturally similar and follow Afghanyat/Pashtunwali.

Kurram is located in disputed area, the Durand Line is not accepted as the border between the homeland of Afghans and NaPakistan.

And to answer your question: I hold the nationality of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and Germany.

What nationality do you have?
Pakistani?
Good for you.

Stay out of Afghan/Pashtun matters.