Amirul Mumineen Mullah Omar Mujahid (hafidhahullah) tells his lifestory in his own vo

[khushal]

But you concede it was functioning right? so they had some type of modern infrastructure right They had SOMETHING to work with right? Yet they insisted on not using it.


To Quoque Fallacy; the Ministers being better now is not the issue; the Taliban had ever chance to prove themselves and they didnt. I wont but the "they were starting from scratch" excuse" as long as Taliban hold themselves as morally superior; I will hold them too by that same standard.

There were no engineers in the country, even if they had a nuclear reactor, what good is it with no nuclear engineers to run it. You fail to understand that illiterate mullhas are going to run the country like illiterate mullahs and NA warlords are going to run the country like warlords. Neither are goin to be rational. The problem with Afghanistan is that when the King was deposed, legitimacy of a leadership for the country have been questioned by the society, that is why there is no unity.

It does not matter if they themselves see themselves as morally superior. The commies held themselves as morally superior but it does not make it true.

[khushal]

But no one here is claiming NATO is there to make trees grow, where as the Taliban were claiming they'd do exactly that (metaphorically)

so you concede that there were no nutrients for the tree to grow because if a resource rich organization like NATO had problems making the tree grow how can they. NATO is claiming to make the tree grow. Nokia is claiming that the NA is growing the best tree.

Its also about perspective. The talibans version of good fruit is different than mines and your and NATO's. NATO wants a bollywood version and the Taliban wants all of afghanistan to be like the average afghan village. Al Arab wants the Saudi(wahabi) version, Nokia wants a persianized Afghanistan.

[ScimitarXEdge]

There were no engineers in the country, even if they had a nuclear reactor, what good is it with no nuclear engineers to run it. You fail to understand that illiterate mullhas are going to run the country like illiterate mullahs and NA warlords are going to run the country like warlords. Neither are goin to be rational. The problem with Afghanistan is that when the King was deposed, legitimacy of a leadership for the country have been questioned by the society, that is why there is no unity.

It does not matter if they themselves see themselves as morally superior. The commies held themselves as morally superior but it does not make it true.

This is a red herringl you said it was barely running so there were people running it which means they could get more people running it, we're not talking about ultra complex things like Nuclear Reactors, we're talking about basic infrastructure. Barely Running = Was running = They had something to work with

I rest my case.

[ScimitarXEdge]

so you concede that there were no nutrients for the tree to grow because if a resource rich organization like NATO had problems making the tree grow how can they. NATO is claiming to make the tree grow. Nokia is claiming that the NA is growing the best tree.

Its also about perspective. The talibans version of good fruit is different than mines and your and NATO's. NATO wants a bollywood version and the Taliban wants all of afghanistan to be like the average afghan village. Al Arab wants the Saudi(wahabi) version, Nokia wants a persianized Afghanistan.

How can I concede when you admitted that there was infrastructure; that would be me ignoring your previous confirmation. Yeah Taiban's idea of good fruit was pretty different, it was different the funamentals of human necessities, it was different from Muslims in general, it was different from what the Nabi(saw) taught, it was also extremely different. It was extremely wrong. Their idea of good fruit was men wearing beards and blowing up statues. The Taliban aren't supposed to be judged by their self serving views , but by how they impacted others.

[khushal]

This is a red herringl you said it was barely running so there were people running it which means they could get more people running it, we're not talking about ultra complex things like Nuclear Reactors, we're talking about basic infrastructure. Barely Running = Was running = They had something to work with

I rest my case.

They had something to work with yes, but that does not mean they can maintain it without engineers. running an airline is not simple, you need engineers. The Taliban had to take the Airlines to Karachi to maintain them because they lacked engineers, and eventually they had to ground the whole airline because again a lack of engineers.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariana_Afghan_Airlines
Taliban era
After the end of the Soviet war in 1989 and collapse of Najibullah's government, the Taliban took over Kabul in 1996. Afghanistan faced substantial economic sanctions from the international sector during the Taliban regime. The sanctions, along with the Taliban government's control of the company and the grounding of many of the carrier's international flights, had a devastating effect on the economic health of the company through the 1990s. The fleet was reduced to only a handful of Russian and Ukrainian built An-26s, Yakovlev Yak-40s and three Boeing 727s, which were used on the longest domestic routes. In October 1996, Pakistan provided a temporary maintenance and operational base at Karachi. By 1999, Ariana flew only to Dubai, United Arab Emirates and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia; also, limited cargo flights continued into China's western provinces. However, sanctions imposed by UN Security Council Resolution 1267 forced the airline company to suspend overseas operations. In November 2001, the airline was grounded completely.
According to the Los Angeles Times:[7]

With the Taliban's blessing, Bin Laden effectively had hijacked Ariana, the national civilian airline of Afghanistan. For four years, according to former U.S. aides and exiled Afghan officials, Ariana's passenger and charter flights ferried Islamic militants, arms, cash and opium through the United Arab Emirates and Pakistan. Members of Bin Laden's Al Qaeda terrorist network were provided false Ariana identification that gave them free run of airports in the Middle East.

According to people interviewed by the Los Angeles Times, Viktor Bout's companies helped in running the airline.[8]

Was Running -->Something Broke-->Cant run anymore

[ScimitarXEdge]

Who do you support as an Pashtun in Afghanistan Scimitar?

And why do you support the puppet Karzai and his regime?

Do you want Pakistani and Iranian influence again?

What is the alternative to Taliban? Warlords? Druglords? Puppets of the West?

You's a khanzir who was thrown out of Iraq, please mind your own business and just like you said to me earlier, that Pashtuns don't have any business in Arab matters; YOU too have no business in Pashtun matters.

I have business in both, since I am half of each :D thanks.

[khushal]

Since Pashtuns are Muslims I have a business just like you, as a non-Arab, comments on Syrian, Iraqi, Saudi Arabian and other Arab matters.

.

Your an idiot, your telling others that pashtuns have no matter on arab matters and then your getting mad because he tells you that you have no matters on pashtun matters. He basically told you what you told him.

Get lost you wahabi fool. go preach your BS to the Sauds who are destroying mecca.

[ScimitarXEdge]

You are an American born Pashtun and half African. You are not Arab, you do not speak Arab, your lineage is not Arabic and your name is not Arabic.

My mother is from Al-Higaz so Saudi Arabia are as much my homeland as Iraq is. In fact the Banu Hashim are from Hijaz so I am very much at home.

Since Pashtuns are Muslims I have a business just like you, as a non-Arab, comments on Syrian, Iraqi, Saudi Arabian and other Arab matters.

And I understand your lack of answer. A puppet of the Karzai regime is not good on this forum.

You are probably also Shia.

Half African? All true Arab tribes come from Yemen.


Yeah but remember you told me to butt out because I am Pashtun from my father? SO you too should BUTT out since you're not Pashtun, we're following YOUR policy not mine.

I am half of each so I can do what I want

Even if I was a Shi'a , though I am not, what's wrong with that? Even the Abbassiyah made alliance with Shi'a against the Ummayah.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Your an idiot, your telling others that pashtuns have no matter on arab matters and then your getting mad because he tells you that you have no matters on pashtun matters. He basically told you what you told him.

Get lost you wahabi fool. go preach your BS to the Sauds who are destroying mecca.

Allahu Akbar, send this Wahhabi servant boy back to Jeddah.

[ScimitarXEdge]

They had something to work with yes, but that does not mean they can maintain it without engineers. running an airline is not simple, you need engineers. The Taliban had to take the Airlines to Karachi to maintain them because they lacked engineers, and eventually they had to ground the whole airline because again a lack of engineers.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariana_Afghan_Airlines
Taliban era
After the end of the Soviet war in 1989 and collapse of Najibullah's government, the Taliban took over Kabul in 1996. Afghanistan faced substantial economic sanctions from the international sector during the Taliban regime. The sanctions, along with the Taliban government's control of the company and the grounding of many of the carrier's international flights, had a devastating effect on the economic health of the company through the 1990s. The fleet was reduced to only a handful of Russian and Ukrainian built An-26s, Yakovlev Yak-40s and three Boeing 727s, which were used on the longest domestic routes. In October 1996, Pakistan provided a temporary maintenance and operational base at Karachi. By 1999, Ariana flew only to Dubai, United Arab Emirates and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia; also, limited cargo flights continued into China's western provinces. However, sanctions imposed by UN Security Council Resolution 1267 forced the airline company to suspend overseas operations. In November 2001, the airline was grounded completely.
According to the Los Angeles Times:[7]

With the Taliban's blessing, Bin Laden effectively had hijacked Ariana, the national civilian airline of Afghanistan. For four years, according to former U.S. aides and exiled Afghan officials, Ariana's passenger and charter flights ferried Islamic militants, arms, cash and opium through the United Arab Emirates and Pakistan. Members of Bin Laden's Al Qaeda terrorist network were provided false Ariana identification that gave them free run of airports in the Middle East.

According to people interviewed by the Los Angeles Times, Viktor Bout's companies helped in running the airline.[8]

Was Running -->Something Broke-->Cant run anymore

That contradicts what you said before then; so not sure which angle you're going with this You're right they need engineers but they had infrastructure how many Ex-Pat Pashtuns aren't engineers? every other one I know is studied engineering. They could have tapped into that, but they alienated those people because they wanted a very rigid interpretation; and that prevented the use of amenities like electrical tools as they threatened the hold the Taliban had.

[ScimitarXEdge]

sure sure, I am half arabi; I just want Arabs like you to get your heads straight and realize being Arabic doesn't make you pure or higher in Islam. Get over yourselves.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

What opportunity of a lifetime. Do you think a bunch a illiterate madrasa students can build a superpower from scratch in a couple of years. The society would have eventually adapted and evolved, but it would have taken generations. The calamity was delivered by the soviet invasion, thats what destroyed the country, once that happened, there was no turning back.

Listen bruh im from a rural pashtun family and i had family in the taliban in the 90s. I dont agree with their ideologies but as pashtubs i sympathize with them

I understand their limitations, i understand the society they came from. I am not opposed to the fact they had to be harsh, but that regime made many many mistakes.

We can sit here and say i ubderstand how they made those mistakes but they still made them, and through their ignorance and stupidity, they delivered pashtuns to their most darkest times

Every pashtana that was raped in the shamal, every pashtun masher that was in american detention, their pain is on mullah omars conscience

There was moderate pragmatic voices within the taliban he sidelined, let alone the pakhtuns that went to him personally from the diaspora to plead with him to change policies

[khushal]

That contradicts what you said before then; so not sure which angle you're going with this You're right they need engineers but they had infrastructure how many Ex-Pat Pashtuns aren't engineers? every other one I know is studied engineering. They could have tapped into that, but they alienated those people because they wanted a very rigid interpretation; and that prevented the use of amenities like electrical tools as they threatened the hold the Taliban had.

Waht contradiction. those ex pat people are not going back today and they wont go back if the taliban are back in power. they afghan government only has the people that are there to work with. The alienation happened during the civil war of 92-96. The flood of refugees leaving the country stopped after the taliban had brought security and went back after 911 and that is becasue paksitan forced them to go back.

[ScimitarXEdge]

well being the Taliban's track record especially with such knee jerk individuals like the Taliban who would behead you in a heart beat, I dont blame the expats for not going back. Much like the rapes of pashtaney in Shamal and the harassment of mashran, this too is the fruit of the Taliban.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Al-Khara who said I made that claim? I'm only saying if you're claiming to fight the kufar you can't kill Muslim civilians in the process whether by accident or by intention. This is why the Taliban are bad. If they tried fighting without being such cowards, I'd support them.